Curse

Lilith St Cyr · Oct 02, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

I had a earth ele i really loved, but kept being called noob.
Switched to fire & now no one calls me such.

Figure I'll go air next time.

Just a quick message with not that much value.

2 cents

martian tristar · Oct 02, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Oh God, why is it that everytime I visit the Ele forums in Guru, someone is asking or ranting about the Elementalist's low DPS compared to a Warriors....

Look, we deal damage from each line of elemental damage. We deal fire damage from Fire Magic, Lightning damage from Air Magic, Cold damage from Water Magic.... getting my drift here? Our damage is conditional, same as a warriors. If the target foe has resistance against elemental damage, then the warrior or a necro or a mesmer steps in. If target foe is resistant against physical damage, then the elementalists steps in for the warrior.

Please, stop ranting about the elementalists damage per second. We all know that Fire is practically worthless if it hits one foe, but thats why ''nukers'' are wanted in huge mob areas. 47 or so damage to one foe from a Fireball is meh, but 47 damage to a huge mob from one Fireball is worth it. Yes, Warriors have PBAoE skills, but that's seldom used. Most just tank the damage instead of mainly dealing it.

Now, in PvP, Adrenal spikes are wanted, used, and successful. Nuking, on the other hand.... well, it doesn't do a lot, but PvP is the home to Air, Water, and Earth. These are used for helpful utility that greatly help out the team. And yes, I know that this isn't the topic of the thread, but people have to understand that Elementalist's are not all about damage and burning, therefore making them balanced and versatile.

Monks can smite but others want them to heal. Rangers can effectively slam a hammer down to their foe, but others would rather they shoot arrows. If the classes did what the others wanted to all the time, there would be no room for effective builds that are daring.

In short, Elementalists are not worthless as damage dealers. They just are expected to be the best, even though they aren't. All they are wanted to do in PvE is to blow mobs up, even if they do little damage, its still AoE damage. That's what Mesmer-hating, Sin-bashing PuG leaders want, so that's what they expect. In PvP, we have many different roles, thus making us versatile.

Amen, you just saved me writing up a reply. I use Fire in PvE just because of the AoE effect and believe me it hurts. 500+ dmg in one blast is worth it. Just you have to be smart about your targets, use skills like firestorm in a smart way and you will notice an ele can do a lot of things a warrior for example cant.

prism2525 · Oct 02, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

I used to use the standard meteor/meteor shower with my ele. but with such armors, i just burn them as that isn't affected by armor.

LightningHell · Oct 03, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

I think I posted in a previous post that I don't mind Elementalist damage being subpar (although still somewhat usable in PvE), I just want the official guide/etc, which are read by the beginners, to stop saying that the Elementalist is the best damage dealer.

Li Tian · Oct 05, 2006, 08:59 AM // 08:59

there is nothing as satisfying as a full nuke going off and everyone dying under a blaze of yellow plus signs.

It is all about timing, get that right and you really can do insane damage, but knowing this, most defensive skills and weapon enhancements aim to offset your combo. I vary my skills for various situations, no one specific build or core skills.

for me, what I like about being an ele, is the infinite possibilities, not really offered by other classes, and while fire is certainly a direct aoe damage route, the other elements offer great possibilities, frequently i use a combo, to slow down, strip defenses prior to blowing people up.

added to this the ability to be a runner, invinci ele, hp spammer etc, what fun!

LightningHell · Oct 05, 2006, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Li Tian

there is nothing as satisfying as a full nuke going off and everyone dying under a blaze of yellow plus signs.

It is all about timing, get that right and you really can do insane damage, but knowing this, most defensive skills and weapon enhancements aim to offset your combo. I vary my skills for various situations, no one specific build or core skills.

for me, what I like about being an ele, is the infinite possibilities, not really offered by other classes, and while fire is certainly a direct aoe damage route, the other elements offer great possibilities, frequently i use a combo, to slow down, strip defenses prior to blowing people up.

added to this the ability to be a runner, invinci ele, hp spammer etc, what fun!

...

...

The other, somewhat better damage dealing professions: Necromancer, Monk, Ranger, Warrior, Assassin, Ritualist. Possibly Mesmer, depending on area, and depending if you count Backfire damage and Empathy damage.

Luciora · Oct 05, 2006, 10:03 AM // 10:03

hmmm Ele runner? I'd love to know how you pull that off

Though I agree, Ele aint useless, but as stated over and over again they are not the BEST damage dealers anymore

Thom Bangalter · Oct 05, 2006, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciora

hmmm Ele runner? I'd love to know how you pull that off

um...considering he followed Ele Runner with hp spammer, I'm pretty sure he was talking about a PVP context.

Luciora · Oct 05, 2006, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Lol, sorry I am obviously still asleep... Didn't make the flag running conenction at all

Dr Strangelove · Oct 13, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

*Shrug* I've never really been bothered by a lack of damage on my ele. Air is great for single target damage most of the game. Fire gets impressive DPS IF you can hit 2-3 enemies with every cast, which isn't as unlikely as it sounds for a good ele. In the prophecies endgame, a water ele can do impressive damage to the titans. I never understood why everyone insisted on going fire with a ranger with winter as backup.

The factions endgame was a bit rougher and I was relegated to a more utililty role there, focusing on continual mass burning or toying around with epidemic or fevered dreams. Also, to go against all common knowlege, anyone not bringing a AoE damage over time spell is completely missing out on good times. Enemies running around like morons? Yes please.

Eles tend to have problems when played poorly, no offense to the OP. Throwing flare on your bar will make you feel more useless than a minion master fighting jade armors. Forgetting heavy duty energy management will make you run out of gas quickly. The entire water line will suck damage-wise in most situations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I agree with this assessment. Elementalists, as a proactive defensive character, are ideally suited for ordering henchmen around. You call a target for them to attack with some sort of DD, get to blind / weaken annoying physicals that break aggro, put up wards on the henchies clustering around you, and pump Heal Parties when things inevitibly go wrong. I've had more success henching with a Necromancer than an Elementalist, on the back of the raw power of minions, but the henchmen are really just along for the ride and suck it up once you have minions. A normal offensive character like a ranger can call targets and interrupt effectively, but can't bail the henchmen out of a hole with blind, wards, and heal party like an elementalist can. Monking solo with henchmen is painful. Elementalists, of all professions, really maximize their henchmen, and that goes pretty far when you have seven of them.

Peace,
-CxE

Fark defense, chuck a high radius AoE DoT on the monk, then blow then spike the crap out of everything else while the monk runs around. I generally believe that if you're wasting time blinding physicals and throwing out heal parties, you're killing way too slow.

Now that I think more about it, one of the big reasons why most people don't think eles do much damage is the abysmmal echo nuker build. It's a very defenseive buidl that relies on a tank carefully managing aggro, then sneaking in and scattering that aggro with a couple of small radius nukes every 60 seconds. In the end, you pump out a very small amount of DPS and a few poorly timed knockdowns. I'll take tenai's heat any day over MS.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 13, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

your party doesn't get wtfpwned by large mobs though, since the big hitters are blinded and hp spam is a lot of pressure off AI controlled monks, since they're never really that great at assessing where the heals actually need to be put.

Ensign · Oct 13, 2006, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Those are comments for playing with *henchmen*, which most certainly do not rip through mobs like tissue paper.

When playing with other players I build around Blinding Flash / Ward / Heal Party because that lets me take a Monk slot instead of a physical slot. Prodigy/Party plus a true Monk is a very solid backline for most areas of PvE. You fill in the rest with whatever physicals you can find plus a Necro and proceed to run over everything.

I firmly believe that an Elementalist who thinks his primary job in the party is to cast Searing Heat, not Heal Party, would be better off being replaced by a Fighter Henchman. Not that I mind a bit of damage being tossed in from Eles on occasion, but that's not why I'd ever invite one.

The reason a lot of people here think that Eles do scant damage, is because we've played other professions. Hence, we know that in comparison to what we can do with other skill lists, Elementalist damage is not all that impressive.

Peace,
-CxE

Dr Strangelove · Oct 13, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Those are comments for playing with *henchmen*, which most certainly do not rip through mobs like tissue paper.

When playing with other players I build around Blinding Flash / Ward / Heal Party because that lets me take a Monk slot instead of a physical slot. Prodigy/Party plus a true Monk is a very solid backline for most areas of PvE. You fill in the rest with whatever physicals you can find plus a Necro and proceed to run over everything.

I firmly believe that an Elementalist who thinks his primary job in the party is to cast Searing Heat, not Heal Party, would be better off being replaced by a Fighter Henchman. Not that I mind a bit of damage being tossed in from Eles on occasion, but that's not why I'd ever invite one.

The reason a lot of people here think that Eles do scant damage, is because we've played other professions. Hence, we know that in comparison to what we can do with other skill lists, Elementalist damage is not all that impressive.

Peace,
-CxE

The role of a fire ele is crowd control, not single target damage, similar to a barrage ranger. Against single targets, both could be replaced by other classes or builds for an increase in DPS. The popularity of these builds comes from their power when it counts. Both these builds have a large increase in DPS against large mobs. Do either of them beat a frenzy warrior with OoP up spamming cyclone axe? Probably not, but then again, nothing does. In addition, that warrior requires a necro to keep OoP up and a monk to keep him from dying, as melee combat tends to increase damage taken. Both the ele and the ranger unsupported DO significantly beat Stefan the power attack spammer or your average healing breeze wammo. To make a more personal attack, what the hell was that fire ele doing in your match vs. Te in championship if not doing damage? Keeping you warm?

The ele is a modular addition to the party. A good one will rarely require healing, BiPing, or any other kind of attention. This makes it popular in PuGs where teamwork is at a minimum.

Another point for the use of eles in PvE is elemental weakness. Although rarely exploited ingame, many enemies have elemental weaknesses that double damage. The damage done quickly becomes staggering.

I firmly believe that an ele who believes his job is to spam searing heat is playing in fort aspenwood or jade quarry. It's a tool in PvE, not a beat-all end-all skill.

Don't get me wrong here, I never invite so called "nukers" to my party who do nothing but cast MS once every 60 seconds. I simply believe there is a role for eles beyond HP and ward bitch.

Finally, I don't particulary appreciate the implication that I'm a moron who's never played other classes. I'm fully aware of what other classes are capable of.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 13, 2006, 04:26 PM // 16:26

In a perfect pve world, I would run something like 3 warriors (warriors, not tanks) a boon prot and a blight monk, 1 hp spam ele, a minion master, and whatever else you want in the last slot: a warder, maybe, or an ss necro, or a smiter even, or calling for the mission maybe another ele with psychic distraction. I've never really ran into a mob larger than 8 guys, and I think this mix of players could easily rip apart any place in the game. I will play a sooper nuker when I'm pugging and i'm the only elementalist in the party because it's expected of me and there are whammos afoot, but when I did unwaking waters a while back, heal party>kunnavang's spores.

Dr Strangelove · Oct 13, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

In a perfect pve world, I would run something like 3 warriors (warriors, not tanks) a boon prot and a blight monk, 1 hp spam ele, a minion master, and whatever else you want in the last slot: a warder, maybe, or an ss necro, or a smiter even, or calling for the mission maybe another ele with psychic distraction. I've never really ran into a mob larger than 8 guys, and I think this mix of players could easily rip apart any place in the game. I will play a sooper nuker when I'm pugging and i'm the only elementalist in the party because it's expected of me and there are whammos afoot, but when I did unwaking waters a while back, heal party>kunnavang's spores.

And I will laugh like a naked teenager in a field full of pussywillows as your warriors attempt to throw their melee weapons at Kunnie.

SnipiousMax · Oct 13, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

In a perfect pve world...

Five physical damage dealers (mix of Warriors and Rangers), one Order/MM Hybrid Necro, 1 Ether Prodigiy Fueled HP turret with blinding flash, and 1 monk. Ensign inspired, and absolutely devestating in PvE.

Master Fuhon · Oct 13, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

*In the prophecies endgame, a water ele can do impressive damage to the titans. I never understood why everyone insisted on going fire with a ranger with winter as backup.

It is mostly related to team strategies that water ends up working better than fire. Many groups are working off the kill the Sparks, then Titans, Hulks, Fists/Hands. The groups are small and no one bothers bunching anything up; I spend most of that mission ramming Ice Spears into everything (highest single target spammable).

Still safer with Winter because you get the occasional warrior with Fiery Dragon sword. Titan regen rate > fire melee. I've also done that mission with fire before, when the leader kicked the Winter ranger and gogogogo'ed into the mission. I had gale/meteor shower so I wasn't so useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

The role of a fire ele is crowd control, not single target damage, similar to a barrage ranger.

I'm not sure if the varying definitions are acceptable, but crowd control (the way I've seen it used) has absolutely nothing to do with damage. Crowd control is taking the separate enemies in a mob and deciding what you want to do with them. Knockdown this one, interrupt that one, hex shutdown another one, etc. Fire crowd control comes from Meteor Shower interrupts (you said this skill is worse than scattering DoTs), and to a certain extent AoE panic effect. Barrage crowd control comes from the ranger interrupts. Note that each class has excellent crowd control abilities (unlike warriors, very poor cc). Wards, weakness/blinds, and knockdowns are crowd control methods, just like focusing all of the aggro onto a tank. Warrior team DPS gets kind of crazy with all the buffs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Finally, I don't particulary appreciate the implication that I'm a moron who's never played other classes.

Then you are aware of the next point. Many elementalist builds are poor single target DPS (exhaustion and high energy costs on the best ones, no-armor ignoring component). Barragers, minion masters, and SS necro's are better AoE damage. There is no contesting a minion master, who can put disease degen on groups and make things blow up and/or get further poision (Putrid/Death novas) along with his minions. Barragers can be stacked with Orders, Conjured Elements, or Judge's Insight to boost their damage. Critical barragers give bleeding too, but I have little experience with them, and they can also be stacked like rangers can.

Lastly, the best direct comparison is with an SS and a fire nuker. The SS arcane echoes his curse to have it running on two enemies within the same group. Damage is armor ignoring, and you can modify it somewhat with "Reckless Haste" if you want. He has an excellent synergy in that as soon as things start dying, he gets energy refunds. Hence, he unloads most of his energy at the start, spends off his regen rate during it, and gets it back at the end. Elementalists spend all of their energy, end up doing less damage, and have some downtime before the next fight....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I'm fully aware of what other classes are capable of.

...So what you get, is everyone hybridizing the class. Defensive elementalists are given monk skills, and offensive elementalists can still fit wards/knockdown in the build. That includes using mesmer skills for interrupts and energy returns. Cast speed ends up capping the elementalist damage dealing abilities. If you aren't doing something else besides damage as an elementalist, well... you could be doing more. The people who don't play the class as a damage dealer are very aware of how Elementalists work.

Ensign · Oct 14, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

The role of a fire ele is crowd control, not single target damage, similar to a barrage ranger.

By crowd control, you mean AoE damage I hope. Fire doesn't really 'control' crowds outside of making them scatter with the DoTAoE effects.

As other people have mentioned, the AoE pyramid for PvE has Barrage at the top, followed by Spiteful Spirit, followed by Fire Elementalists - toss in a bit of Cyclone Axe, Triple Chop, or Hundred Blades if you like but that isn't core function. What does Fire have for AoE? Fireball, which is perfectly functional. Rodgort's Invocation, which is ok and an AoE. After that? A bunch of single target hits and DoTAoEs to make things scatter. If you like making things scatter, hey, go for it. Otherwise, you take two skills, and fill your bar with other things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

monk to keep him from dying, as melee combat tends to increase damage taken.

If the Warrior isn't taking the damage, then someone else is. The Warrior isn't weaker because he takes damage while the ele runs away. The Warrior is stronger because he can take damage on top of his other functionality, while the Elementalist cannot without rocking his Monks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

To make a more personal attack, what the hell was that fire ele doing in your match vs. Te in championship if not doing damage? Keeping you warm?

The only playoff match I've ever played against Te was in the first American championships, and neither of our games featured an Elementalist on either side.

Are you talking about game 2 in Germany against iB? The job of our stand Elementalist was to sit in the back and cast Heal Party for 30 minutes, casting blind on anything that came back to mess with him, and stepping up to Glyph+Reschant anyone who died. Occasionally he would walk forward to toss a Fireball as well. Then at VoD, the trapper walked forward, put up Whirling Defense and "Shields Up!", and gathered all of the aggro from the archers as they bunched up on the top of the stairs. Then he charged in, started laying down traps while he was being smited off of, and the ele walked forward and used a few AoE skills to blast all of the archers at once. After the NPCs were wiped, everyone retreated to our NPCs and won with the significant NPC advantage at the flagstand.

The short version is that the core functionality of an Ele in GvG is Blinding Flash + Heal Party. After that you still have enough attribute points to spec pretty much anything, and if you don't want water for whatever reason (Nature's Renewal, or you already having one are the most common reasons) then you might as well spec Fire.

Fireball is better than Lightning Orb is pretty much every way, and if you have a slot and are already in Fire you might as well take Rodgort's Invocation. After that the line is really sketchy, but when you only have a couple of free slots, who cares? Your job is already covered by protecting Heal Party spam most of the time, so whatever you put in the other slots can be whatever specialized skills you want. Occasionally, for the right build and strategy, those skills are Fire.

If you think that character is in the build to blast people, you're wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I simply believe there is a role for eles beyond HP and ward bitch.

Blinding Flash and snares are the most popular ones - snares being great both defensively and offensively (they can't kite the Warriors!) In PvE I'll run Fireball and Rodgort's Invocation. I said in the original post that I have nothing against Eles throwing a bit of damage when there's nothing more important to do. Hey, I even encourage it. I'm just saying that I'm never inviting an Ele to my group for damage, I'm inviting him for the Heal Party and Ward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Five physical damage dealers (mix of Warriors and Rangers), one Order/MM Hybrid Necro, 1 Ether Prodigiy Fueled HP turret with blinding flash, and 1 monk. Ensign inspired, and absolutely devestating in PvE.

Hehe, I like that build mostly because I need something to get through PvE with my ele with. Heal Party is *so good* against the large amounts of defocused fire in PvE, it does most of the heavy lifting while your Monk dabbles with the details. Blinding Flash? It never gets pulled, you can pop anything that decides to deaggro with it and it'll be wholly harmless until your physicals come back. Plus, I love Glyph of Sacrifice + Resurrection Chant in PvE. Someone dies, they bounce off the ground and keep going.

For physicals, I'm liking a fair mix of Rangers over straight Warriors - not just because Barrage and interrupts are awesome, but because it makes you less succeptable to AoE (which is, like, the only thing that scares you) and bodyblocking becomes much less relevant.

Also, if you're running with an organized team, forget about minions and just run Order of the Vampire at 16 spec. The minions only slow you down. I like them when playing with more random pugs though, because once you get going you can basically carry the team on your own.

Peace,
-CxE

Dr Strangelove · Oct 14, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

By crowd control, you mean AoE damage I hope. Fire doesn't really 'control' crowds outside of making them scatter with the DoTAoE effects.

In this case, I primarily mean the dramatic increase in DPS for an ele while facing crowds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

As other people have mentioned, the AoE pyramid for PvE has Barrage at the top, followed by Spiteful Spirit, followed by Fire Elementalists - toss in a bit of Cyclone Axe, Triple Chop, or Hundred Blades if you like but that isn't core function. What does Fire have for AoE? Fireball, which is perfectly functional. Rodgort's Invocation, which is ok and an AoE. After that? A bunch of single target hits and DoTAoEs to make things scatter. If you like making things scatter, hey, go for it. Otherwise, you take two skills, and fill your bar with other things.

Everything you mentioned for other classes has the "adjacent" AoE. Rodgort's, the crown jewel of fire that belongs on every fire skillbar anywhere ever, has a much larger AoE. "In the Area" if memory serves. Searing heat and eruption have the same AoE, which makes them pretty gosh darn decent. I also can't say I don't get a little excited when I look at searing flames in Nightfall.

SS, nice as it is, has a few drawbacks- it can be removed (unlikely in PvE). The target can stop attacking (unlikely in PvE with good target selection). The target can move away from the nice bunch you threw it in (reasonably likely, but still controllable). The target can die before the rest of the mob wasting a lot of the power of the hex. (Most likely in PvE). At any rate, it's situational.

The warrior AoEs have the same problem. They require your warrior to position himself dead in the middle of a mob and swing away. While a warrior is at home with that many baddies around, it can be rough getting in position, especially if the baddies move.

Barrage is a great skill against groups, albeit a small AoE. I'll admit that I usually want my rangers focusing on high single target damage in PvE though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

If the Warrior isn't taking the damage, then someone else is. The Warrior isn't weaker because he takes damage while the ele runs away. The Warrior is stronger because he can take damage on top of his other functionality, while the Elementalist cannot without rocking his Monks.

I strongly disagree with you here. The warrior negates the ability to kite in exchange for greater armor and the best DPS. In addition, warriors invite focus fire on themselves, which tends to compound the problem of healing them. Take all ranger parties as an example. Let's go beyond the typical B/P party as well. The mobs generally have more trouble picking a target, and will spread out their damage enough that incremental self heals will compensate. In addition, the melee mobs take more time to start attacking, and are often dead before they even get close. Don't believe me? Try creating a few parties without any designated tanks and tell everyone that it's ok to run away. it works disturbingly well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The only playoff match I've ever played against Te was in the first American championships, and neither of our games featured an Elementalist on either side.

Dammit

/surrenders

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

If you think that character is in the build to blast people, you're wrong.

No, it's not in the build to primarily damage people, but it sure as hell did a good job of it eh?

To a certain extent, it comes down to playstyle. From your posts, I get the sense that you have a thing for massive mobs of warriors beating the snot out everthing using snares and damage buffs to increase their effectiveness. That's great, and it works well in both PvP and PvE. I tend to have a thing for rangers and eles blowing the crap out of things from afar. Both work, it just comes down to playstyle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Fuhon

It is mostly related to team strategies that water ends up working better than fire. Many groups are working off the kill the Sparks, then Titans, Hulks, Fists/Hands. The groups are small and no one bothers bunching anything up; I spend most of that mission ramming Ice Spears into everything (highest single target spammable)

Fire + Winter works fine, but usually requires 2 players, relies on the winter not being killed, and relies on the both remembering to lay it down and speccing points into WS. It's fine, but why not just do it more simply and spec water to begin with?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Fuhon

There is no contesting a minion master, who can put disease degen on groups and make things blow up and/or get further poision (Putrid/Death novas) along with his minions.

If he can find corpses. It's conditional, much more so than ele damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Fuhon

Barragers can be stacked with Orders, Conjured Elements, or Judge's Insight to boost their damage. Critical barragers give bleeding too, but I have little experience with them, and they can also be stacked like rangers can.

They can, but that generally requires multiple players. Critical barragers are a waste of time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Fuhon

Elementalists spend all of their energy, end up doing less damage, and have some downtime before the next fight....

An elementalist having major energy problems and needing time to regen is as bad as a warrior who frenzy + heal sigs under fire. Energy management is the most critical thing to playing an ele.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Fuhon

If you aren't doing something else besides damage as an elementalist, well... you could be doing more.

The same could be said for any class in the game. Any build that focuses on nothing but doing damage is probably missing something.

Ensign · Oct 14, 2006, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Everything you mentioned for other classes has the "adjacent" AoE. Rodgort's, the crown jewel of fire that belongs on every fire skillbar anywhere ever, has a much larger AoE. "In the Area" if memory serves.

Rodgort's Invocation and Searing Heat are both "nearby" AoEs. The only "In the Area" damage AoEs are Energy Surge and Deep Freeze, to the best of my knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

SS, nice as it is, has a few drawbacks...At any rate, it's situational.

Fortunately, the situations set where Spiteful Spirit is effective is virtually identical to the situation set where AoE is effective - clumped up mobs. Barring bad target selection or lack of covers, Spiteful Spirit is the single best AoE skill in the game. Unfortunately, that character offers little else to a team and I don't care for him as a result.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I strongly disagree with you here. The warrior negates the ability to kite in exchange for greater armor and the best DPS.

Warriors can kite just as effectively as anyone else - more effectively, even, because of an abundance of speed buffs. Warriors can't attack when kiting, but neither can anyone else. The difference being that Warriors don't have to kite for the most part, because they're such a pain to kill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

In addition, warriors invite focus fire on themselves, which tends to compound the problem of healing them.

Focused fire upon a Warrior neutralizes Heal Party. However, it makes all of your Protection spell go absolutely bonkers. That's what the Monks are doing, spreading Prot around, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

No, it's not in the build to primarily damage people, but it sure as hell did a good job of it eh?

It does a pretty good job at killing a dozen archers that bunched up to tank the full brunt of a Meteor Shower, yeah. A hell of a good job at damaging people? No, not really. It's pretty bad at that actually. Tossing a Fireball to assist your Warriors is useful, and Rodgort's is ok when people are begging for it - bunching up in Wards and not applying any pressure - but otherwise you're better off sitting in the back casting Heal Party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

To a certain extent, it comes down to playstyle.

The difference being that 'my' playstyle places heavy emphasis on the imbalanced aspects of the game to steamroll PvE with maximum effectiveness. That being that Warrior is the best profession in Guild Wars for killing things, and that in the absence of direct counters Warriors tear through everything with minimal support. The guiding principle behind your playstyle, well, I have no idea what that is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

The same could be said for any class in the game. Any build that focuses on nothing but doing damage is probably missing something.

Unless they've discovered Dragon Slash. Dragon Slashers are killing machines.

Peace,
-CxE