Curse

Ensign · Sep 16, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by joncoish

Elementalists ARE very effective. I've found my elementalist to be the most effective class for me to hench most of the missions in PVE.

I agree with this assessment. Elementalists, as a proactive defensive character, are ideally suited for ordering henchmen around. You call a target for them to attack with some sort of DD, get to blind / weaken annoying physicals that break aggro, put up wards on the henchies clustering around you, and pump Heal Parties when things inevitibly go wrong. I've had more success henching with a Necromancer than an Elementalist, on the back of the raw power of minions, but the henchmen are really just along for the ride and suck it up once you have minions. A normal offensive character like a ranger can call targets and interrupt effectively, but can't bail the henchmen out of a hole with blind, wards, and heal party like an elementalist can. Monking solo with henchmen is painful. Elementalists, of all professions, really maximize their henchmen, and that goes pretty far when you have seven of them.

Peace,
-CxE

pug_ster · Sep 19, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Fire nukers with Glyph of energy are perfect pve eles. Use fire attunement, Glyph of energy on Meteor Shower, Rodgort's Invocation, Searing Heat, etc... using 10 energy and does not cause exhaustion. You can nuke a groups and groups of mobs and you don't have to worry about your energy.

Mysterial · Sep 19, 2006, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by pug_ster

Fire nukers with Glyph of energy are perfect pve eles. Use fire attunement, Glyph of energy on Meteor Shower, Rodgort's Invocation, Searing Heat, etc... using 10 energy and does not cause exhaustion. You can nuke a groups and groups of mobs and you don't have to worry about your energy.

A PvE Elementalist's problem is not energy. Please do not post in a thread if you are not willing to read it.

Xiaxhou of Trinity · Sep 20, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Fire does NOT suck. Every element is equal in dmg IMO, just each with different effects: condition fire, armor buffs KD's wards great support line from earth, air spiking FUN, and water can snare. You can deal a considerable amount of dmg with any element, and if you're looking into PvE, try looking at your enemies' AL towards the elements. A good nuker and great MM can carry any grp through both campaigns (even with a half-assed monk).

LightningHell · Sep 20, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaxhou of Trinity

Fire does NOT suck. Every element is equal in dmg IMO, just each with different effects: condition fire, armor buffs KD's wards great support line from earth, air spiking FUN, and water can snare. You can deal a considerable amount of dmg with any element, and if you're looking into PvE, try looking at your enemies' AL towards the elements. A good nuker and great MM can carry any grp through both campaigns (even with a half-assed monk).

Problem is, I'd rather have a SS and a MM instead of a nuker and a MM.

Xpl0iter · Sep 20, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

To be honest guys, people who think eles do awesome in game for damage purposes, or either do not understand the difference of damage output than the one listed in skill descriptions, meet me in Guild Wars (IGN Darkest Elemantal)
I will simply take you through a few areas which are enough for you to realize how bad a damage can possibly be. I will let you do the best damage you can.
The reason which makes people invite eles into groups nowadays (and i am thankful to their lack of knowledge) is that they still consider them heavy damage dealers which is partialy true (I.E. Until you hit the Desert Area and Onwards, and against creatures of oposite elemental attributes, for example Fire Vs Water, or vise versa).
I have been playing an ele for over a year now and love my character so do not take me wrong. I have played FoC (Feast of Corruption {Necro Curses Elite}) nuking quite a while and found it alot better than any ele nuking. Armour ignoring damage and life stealing with hexhes on.... well, the list goes on and on and on.

PS: I am forced to admit, lighting is right on his post above.

Maria The Princess · Sep 21, 2006, 04:20 AM // 04:20

for normal PVE Fire is best imo, with my renewal nuker i dish out alot of damage, as long as i dont stop casting hight damage skills before enemys are out of my MS...

for PVP....earth is the best way for balanced, or maby air spike but honestly after the nurf they are not as effective as before

the only effective pVP fire eles are maby Starburst eles. but i havent seen many of them since the 6v6 event

Safer Saviour · Sep 21, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

I have used five of my six character slots - N/Me, N/Me, E/Mo, E/Me and Rt/N, my Necros and Rit all do better damage than my eles, no matter what I do. I must admit that when going through the game with my necros, I protest against inviting eles into thr parties I was in, knowing that adding an MM, Order, Bloodspiker, FoC, SS or whatever alongside whatever I was running at the time, would probably herald better results. That said, in the elite missions, Urgoz's Warren and The Deep, I know how valuable knockdowns can prove... I still hope elementalists have a major damage output upgrade in Nightfall. After all, the preview of the necro skills, well, they look to be the best of the lot. I mean 'Well of Silence'' (no casting?) will kill be hell for eles.

Vermilion Okeanos · Sep 21, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

I think what is great of ele is that, just 1 elemental line attribute allow them to play more than 2-3 different role in each situation. It isn't like inspiration is only for support, it isn't like axe is only for damage, it isn't like healing is only to heal.

Although there are many other attributes like death magic that can be support, damage, and heal at the same time, but ele is the only one with 4 of these kind of attribute line in one class. The pay off, they aren't extreme at anything; while their energy storage make them without a doubt, the most energy capable.

LightningHell · Sep 22, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

while their energy storage make them without a doubt, the most energy capable.

I'm not doubting your knowledge of the game, but a comment on this for newer players who might get this misinterpreted:

Energy Storage is not Energy Management. It's a buffer for exhaustion and Energy Storage spells are Energy Management, but Energy Storage is not itself Energy Management.

Zuranthium · Sep 22, 2006, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Well technically, yes it is.

Going into a fight with +X energy means you can cast more spells over the course of that battle than if you had +0 energy.

It's just really, really horrible energy management. That extra energy has to sustain you for the whole fight whilst a real energy management skill can be re-used and provide a far better net in energy.

Vahn Roi · Sep 22, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Given the fact that the more effect ele spells cost 15-25e, having 90e doesn't mean you wont be running yourself dry if you aren't careful.

Ensign · Sep 22, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

New players often mistake Energy Storage for energy management, however, because historically games like this have had little to no energy management, and raising your capacity was the only way to get off more spells.

Peace,
-CxE

Vermilion Okeanos · Sep 26, 2006, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Well, what I really meant for energy capable is "last to run out" and of course, with a small tag under it saying "last to fill up".

Ele's energy management really aren't bad at all, while you can't say they are bad because it is easily counterable (because when you really want to counter, all are slaughtered like pigs equally).

The only problem that came in was the providing energy for 2ndary, which mesemer stole the show with inspiration while necro and ele share the same seat (conditional), with monk being last.

All these (aside the 2ndary energy problem) along with how ele can play offensive, defensive, and utility in the same match (with ele attributes) give them the right to be there.

If most ele can think battle in a long term perspective, actually, if anyone can think battle in a long term perspective; they will be effective.

Also, there aren't that many 15-25 energy spells, certainly not fit "most" for sure. Earth 11/25 are 15 or above, fire 11/25, water 6/23, air 4/23, energy storage 0/5, general 0/8. Total 32/109. If the statement was "Ele attributes have the most 25 energy skills in the game", then that would be correct.

25 energy skills also give players a reason to use ele primary, as 25 energy is very demanding for a class that don't have energy storage. Pretty much no class except ele and ranger are capable of using 25 energy skill right away when the situation ask for it with a high garuntee (most of them have to either do little to nothing before hand, or use energy recovery before using 25). Now if Anet would make 25 energy skills more worth it. Think of 25 energy skills another way of Anet's "elite", which some aren't so elite"

Mouse at Large · Sep 28, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

For another practical example of just how effective eles can be in PvP, try and watch Death by Coconuts in full ele spike mode. As I type this, they are at no.9 in the ladder

frojack · Sep 28, 2006, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Elementalist damage is not so bad if you just stick to air for killing priority targets. Plus it's not that elemental damage is completely useless, it just really depends on your target. Going purely for softies wherever possible will net you good results. It's only when dealling with heavy armour that you start to fall down.
That's not to say that your elementalist will deal no damage, but rather you'll need to spend a lot more to drop your target. There in lies the rub. Cost.

You really only have two options if you want to improve elemental damage. Either make the damage output a lot higher, or improve elemental energy needs and drop recharge times, to improve dps.
The former is not desirable as you would kill softies far too quickly. While the later, though more fitting to the current play-style, has some serious balance issues. Even an extra pip of energy regeneration could un-settle things (though I would prefer not to be quoted on that

.
You could reduce the cost of skills but it would put a lot of high-end skills in the reach of other classes that really shouldn't have the luxury.

I personally don't mind things the way they are damage wise. I would just really like some more from my energy storage attribute. Or something that's non-elite that helps me from running low on energy so early in a battle. Attunements really don't cut it.
It's annoying how quickly I need to stop casting when hunting someone in a battle. Especially when trying to drop monks who heal themselves, constantly countering your damage. Never mind having to deal with another opponent who comes into the exchange when your more or less completely dry from dropping the first.

bungusmaximus · Sep 28, 2006, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Actually I can own up to 3 warriors with my ele, I have this special fire-earth build that does much dmg. and is cheap on energy.

Ele attunement
Fire attunement
Aura of restoration
Kinetic armor
Mark of Rodgort
Fireball
Flame burst
Inferno

-With ele and fire attunement u reduce the cost of spells greatly.
-Aura of restoration is for self heal
-kinetic armor boost AL to 120
-Mark of rodgort makes target foe mre vulnarible to fire
-after that cast a fireball on target group while approaching them
-Leeroy in and spam Flame Burst and Inferno, and tab between foes to cast mark on them

Because of the expensive spell cost aura heals very nicely and AL is as high as that of a warr.

I dont say its a perfect build, cos enchant removers and assassins own it, but it surely owns
warriors and deals lots of damage.

edit: I forgot to mention I use a fire+3 rune and a 20^20 fire staff with +30 health

LightningHell · Sep 28, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Actually I can own up to 3 warriors with my ele, I have this special fire-earth build that does much dmg. and is cheap on energy.

Ele attunement
Fire attunement
Aura of restoration
Kinetic armor
Mark of Rodgort
Fireball
Flame burst
Inferno

-With ele and fire attunement u reduce the cost of spells greatly.
-Aura of restoration is for self heal
-kinetic armor boost AL to 120
-Mark of rodgort makes target foe mre vulnarible to fire
-after that cast a fireball on target group while approaching them
-Leeroy in and spam Flame Burst and Inferno, and tab between foes to cast mark on them

Because of the expensive spell cost aura heals very nicely and AL is as high as that of a warr.

I dont say its a perfect build, cos enchant removers and assassins own it, but it surely owns
warriors and deals lots of damage.

edit: I forgot to mention I use a fire+3 rune and a 20^20 fire staff with +30 health

With both Attunements, you are stripbait. Strips are quite common in team builds.

Aura of Restoration and Kinetic Armor are skills not worth bringing to any PvP scenario.

Neither is Mark of Rodgort.

Flame Burst and Inferno are meh.

Fireball is the only feasible skill in the build.

Also, NO RES SIG! NO ELITE!

bungusmaximus · Sep 28, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

For AB it works quite well, and team arena and other high end PvP are not my cup of tea cos I always get whacked :P (maybe i should have mentioned that, cos in other pvp areas u DO need res indeed).
AB is so chaotic that ppl mostly don't even notice me, and dying is no prolem cos this is some sort of suicide bomb build. I tend to take 2-3 ppl with me when i die, and when i dont manage to kill anyone ppl are so low on HP that the remaining teammates can easily mop up the rest.
If u dont believe it works u should ask all the guys I whacked using this build.
(ele attunement is an elite BTW)

Hella Good · Sep 28, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Air and Water are the best PvP Elements. Fire and Earth more PvE. Some of the new skills we saw in the preview event suggest positive changes in the damage dealing department. And no Exhaustion skills (the Invoke Lightning exhaustion is easily avoided). IL and Searing Flames seem to both be very potent damage dealers- IL has armor pen, while SF causes burning, so these skills counter high armor each in their own way.