Curse

LightningHell · Aug 26, 2006, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sauron the Evil

Man,everyone here is stupid. I have a renewal nuker and guess what I have no complaints about damage output. I'm amazed by the damage my ele can do sometimes. So just stop complaning about a non-existant problem.(BTW I have a ss nuker and he does a lot of damage,but thats only under certain circumstances.)

I have an elementalist that does more damage as an SS than a renewal nuker. - -

joncoish · Sep 15, 2006, 05:21 PM // 17:21

My elementalist does great damage. Maybe it's not the highest dps, or whatever, but who cares? I enjoy playing the elementalist, they have lots of options at their disposal, including damage spells, so what's the problem?

LightningHell · Sep 16, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by joncoish

My elementalist does great damage. Maybe it's not the highest dps, or whatever, but who cares? I enjoy playing the elementalist, they have lots of options at their disposal, including damage spells, so what's the problem?

That's the spirit.

LoyalSoldier · Sep 16, 2006, 04:07 AM // 04:07

I think one thing people don't understand about the ele. It is not that the damage completely sucks, but that there are better options out there.

I mean why would you buy Craplin butter when you get better quality and price with Super butter?

LightningHell · Sep 16, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoyalSoldier

I think one thing people don't understand about the ele. It is not that the damage completely sucks, but that there are better options out there.

I mean why would you buy Craplin butter when you get better quality and price with Super butter?

It's not totally bad, but it's outclassed by over half of the competition.

LadyNilene · Sep 16, 2006, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Why are people constantly badgering the Elementalist? And it seems to only be a problem on the forums. People always shout for Nukers for pts, so whats the problem? Are people trying to bash the Elementalist on the forums so that anet will make it better for them?

Maybe its just me, but Ive never had any damage dealing problems thus far. Lets say, for example, Fort Apsenwood, i can take any mine/command point/gate without any of my health going down in less then a minute, how long does it take any other profession to do so if they manage to live through it without hiding on the sides?

If were talking about "better options", i can guarantee you that if you pit me with an SS, i can take him out before he/she does me.

Maybe I'm missing the whole point of this, but I dont think the Elementalist is at all broken currently. Of course I don't know how they will fair during Nightfalls...but really...I dont see what all the criticism is about. Just my thoughts on the matter.

LightningHell · Sep 16, 2006, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyNilene

Why are people constantly badgering the Elementalist? And it seems to only be a problem on the forums. People always shout for Nukers for pts, so whats the problem? Are people trying to bash the Elementalist on the forums so that anet will make it better for them?

Maybe its just me, but Ive never had any damage dealing problems thus far. Lets say, for example, Fort Apsenwood, i can take any mine/command point/gate without any of my health going down in less then a minute, how long does it take any other profession to do so if they manage to live through it without hiding on the sides?

If were talking about "better options", i can guarantee you that if you pit me with an SS, i can take him out before he/she does me.

Maybe I'm missing the whole point of this, but I dont think the Elementalist is at all broken currently. Of course I don't know how they will fair during Nightfalls...but really...I dont see what all the criticism is about. Just my thoughts on the matter.

SS is good in PvE because of mobs. If you pit an SS with a nuker, that's taking the SS out of context completely. We are not bashing ellys so they'll make them better, it's proven fact that their damage cannot compare with an autoattacking warrior.

I think you're missing the whole point of this - we're (the people who argue that the Elementalist isn't as good as it's sold to be) trying to tell people that the Elementalist's damage cannot compare to others, while some other people stick to their own opinions while reading this thread and others, or simply haven't read this thread at all (like the people who shout for nukers).

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Ensign · Sep 16, 2006, 06:44 AM // 06:44

I think most people just don't know any better TBH. If you make an elementalist, just use elementalist skills, and fire blast things, you probably think your character is fine, and will argue as such.

If you play a warrior, however, and then make an elementalist, you'll feel like your character is a pile of shit, because, in comparison to the warrior you are used to, it is.

They aren't useless for dishing out damage, but every other profession (with the possible exception of the mesmer in PvE) does a better job of bringing the pain...so elementalists only do 'good damage' in that second grade sense where everyone is a winner.

Peace,
-CxE

NinjaKai · Sep 16, 2006, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Elementalist is a good damage dealer. But only when used properly. I mean each spell line has more than just spells that deal damage. Like water for example, on a support elementalist this line can be great help to a party by reducing your enemies speed to that of snails pase. If you look elementalist as a pure damage dealer I have to think there is something wrong in your head.

LightningHell · Sep 16, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaKai

Elementalist is a good damage dealer. But only when used properly. I mean each spell line has more than just spells that deal damage. Like water for example, on a support elementalist this line can be great help to a party by reducing your enemies speed to that of snails pase. If you look elementalist as a pure damage dealer I have to think there is something wrong in your head.

Explain please? I don't get some of it. For example, "Elementalist is a good damage dealer. But only when used properly."

LadyNilene · Sep 16, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

I totally get this, thats why people want so many wars in a single pt as damage dealers versus elementalists! right? lol

Ok, even if a war or whatever, can do more damage then an ele can, you cant argue with me that any other job can kill another as fast as an ele can. well maybe the exception of the clearly* overpowered Dervish...lol

ok, well maybe i did miss the boat on this one, so im gonna go back to perfect mickey mouse world where Ele's are just fine in lala land...and go on about things , and you guys can debate this some more lol

joncoish · Sep 16, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Warriors are also downright boring to play. Who cares about dps and whatever, this is a freakin game, so everyone play a class they enjoy. I play an elementalist, and with all the people ragging on how much elementalist suck, I do just fine thank you very much. And I don't feel the need to act like some arrogant asshole, which a couple people in this thread seem to like doing.

Mysterial · Sep 16, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by joncoish

Warriors are also downright boring to play. Who cares about dps and whatever, this is a freakin game, so everyone play a class they enjoy. I play an elementalist, and with all the people ragging on how much elementalist suck, I do just fine thank you very much. And I don't feel the need to act like some arrogant asshole, which a couple people in this thread seem to like doing.

Believe it or not, that's exactly why I, at least, complain about it. I want the way that's most enjoyable for me to play to be as effective as the way that's enjoyable for others.

fallot · Sep 16, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyNilene

Ok, even if a war or whatever, can do more damage then an ele can, you cant argue with me that any other job can kill another as fast as an ele can. well maybe the exception of the clearly* overpowered Dervish...lol

Warriors can kill things faster than elementalists can. They do more damage see....

joncoish · Sep 16, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Elementalists ARE very effective. I've found my elementalist to be the most effective class for me to hench most of the missions in PVE. I know most people probably think PVE isn't important, but it IS a part of the game. And in PVP elementalist have lots of stuff at their disposal along with damage. They can use wards, snares, can blind, can knockdown, etc, etc. Plus they have a huge energy pool and lots of great energy management which means that they can play any caster secondary with advantages. They can boost their armor and even play a tanking role. I wish people would get over the idea of elementalists sucking. Maybe half the time it's just the people playing the class and not the class itself.

Katari · Sep 16, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

It isn't just warriors that outdamage eles, it's necros too. SS, Orders, and MMs all do more damage than eles. And no, it really isn't a matter of how you play them.

Quote:

And in PVP elementalist have lots of stuff at their disposal along with damage. They can use wards, snares, can blind, can knockdown, etc, etc.

Which actually isn't damage. Nobody claims eles are totally useless, the claim is only that they're better for utility, and not so great at actually killing stuff.

Quote:

Plus they have a huge energy pool and lots of great energy management which means that they can play any caster secondary with advantages.

If you ignore the fact that almost every other caster class dosn't *need* ether prodigy, and those other classes will do a better job thanks to runes....

Quote:

They can boost their armor and even play a tanking role.

The big difference between a warrior with 120al vs phys, and an ele with earth-tanking spells, is that the warrior can actually kill stuff, while all the ele can do is play with ele spells. So you have a tank that's much more fragile vs enchant strips, can't deal as much damage as a warrior, and needs half a skillbar just to tank compairably.

Quote:

I wish people would get over the idea of elementalists sucking. Maybe half the time it's just the people playing the class and not the class itself.

People who still think eles are all that great really need to get out more and play a necro.

In ideal situations that can't actually exist, eles can't compaire to the damage of a warrior autoattacking. The only way they have to go is down. If a ele can't beat a warrior vs test dummies, and all the warrior needs to do is auto attack, then the only difference that player skill will make is how much better the warrior is.

joncoish · Sep 16, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

Warriors can kill things faster than elementalists can. They do more damage see....

Well depends. Elementalist can do more damage in one spell/skill to a group of enemies, and as far as casting time for something like meteor swarm, well I cast it from a distance, so the mobs wouldn't even necessarily be aggroed before the spell casts. Hence, you get a group of mobs close together, initiate with meteor swarm, the group isn't aggroed till the spells casts, follow up with a fireball while the group is being knocked down and that's a GROUP of mobs mostly (if not fully) dead, compared to the warrior who fights one at a time basically. Sure the elementalist won't match the warriors dps because of their high cast times, but they can still manage to take out mobs efficiently.

Myria · Sep 16, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

If you make an elementalist, just use elementalist skills, and fire blast things, you probably think your character is fine, and will argue as such.

That's really the only explanation I can think of that makes any sense, otherwise I can't see how there's even any room for debate.

I play Elementalists and Necros, the difference in power between the two is ludicrously obvious. The early part of the game, not so much maybe, and pre-AOE nerf my Ele girls could at least keep up with my Necros, but, as things stand, the desert and beyond (or once you're off Shing Jea) the difference makes me feel very, very sad for my Ele girls.

It's not that an elementalist can't kill things, it's that she can't do it as fast (aside from, in some situations, the first kill) or for nearly as long as other classes. Her damage output is impressive on paper, but, thanks to rampant elemental resistance, the actual damage is generally a fraction of that -- throw in the eon-long cast times and epoch-long recharges and it gets really sad. Energy/Exhaustion management is a constant nightmare almost no other class has to worry about (my Necro girls virtually never run out of energy -- soul reaping FTW). Self-healing is almost nonexistant, Aura of Restoration is more a cover enchant than anything otherwise useful, especially compared to Necro self-heals. For an elite an Ele has her choice between energy management or... Well, energy management -- anything else and you're quickly useless to your team. In comparison, my Necro girls have their choice between a variety of deliciously impressive damage-dealing elites, many of which also heal me. As an Ele half my skillbar is generally taken up with support stuff I need just to function and which does no damage to the enemy, as a Necro everything on my skillbar, save a res, hurts the enemy and most of them heal me in the process.

Eles can be great fun to play, I love playing my two girls, and you can get through the game just fine (at least the PVE side of it) with an Ele. However, the question here is not are Eles fun to play or viable in PVE, it's are they serious damage dealers when compared to other classes? The numbers are clear and unambigious -- No, they're not, in fact they're pretty underpowered. Don't believe the numbers? Play your Ele in an end-game area, then play a Necro, Ranger, Warrior, or what have you -- the difference will be obvious. Hell, since the buff, Eles don't even have 'Sins to look down on anymore.

Sad, very sad.

Unfortunately, since Eles are viable as a support class in PVP (a role of little use or need in PVE) -- at least until Nightfall and the Dervish invasion takes that from them -- I don't expect Anet feels there's a problem or intends to fix what is a fundamentally broken class. Frankly I doubt there even is a way to fix Eles without a drastic rework, something that ain't gonna happen. It would be nice if Anet would at least acknowledge the issue, though, dump the claims of Eles doing the most damage, restate them as a support class, and be done with it.

But then I don't expect that to happen, either.

LoyalSoldier · Sep 16, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by joncoish

Who cares about dps and whatever, this is a freakin game,

I generally care when my Ele won't even get invited to groups because other people don't like them.

MelechRic · Sep 16, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoyalSoldier

I generally care when my Ele won't even get invited to groups because other people don't like them.

I'm always happy to have a well-played Elementalist in my AB groups. They bring a lot of skills to the table... good nuking, valuable wards, nice degen. An elementalist is very good in all those roles. The problem comes when people expect them to be superior in all of them. They aren't.

One thing to consider is the elementalist shrines in AB. I know (as a choking gas ranger) that I can take them out easily. However, I see a ton of assassins and warriors hang well back until monk is there to support them. Three air elementalists casting Lightning Hammer can smack you harder than almost anything else can.