Curse

Mouse at Large · Nov 12, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

I'd like to see someone consistantly counter a 1 second casting spell. (and since any Ele with a clue will be using a 20/20 set with Searing Flames, that's often less.).

Anyways, the best way to fix Searing Flames would be to increase it to a 2 second cast. That would be fair.

Lol.....Searing Flames/Glowing Gaze works on having most of a skillbar invested in Fire right????

Power Block - 15, 3/4, 30

If target foe is casting a spell, that spell is interrupted. The interrupted spell and all spells of the same attribute are disabled for 3-13 seconds for that foe. This is an elite skill

TGgold · Nov 12, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Remember, people don't like having to bring a SUPER SPECIFIC COUNTER to fight one type of foe. /sarcasm

I mean really, maybe interrupt mezzys will come back into play

winkgood · Nov 12, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Is the OP joking or what? 99% of the searing flame groups in HA suck. When I see searing flame groups I think to myself "weee, free fame". They can't hold worth crap and are basically just a fame farming build that wins against henchway groups.

makosi · Nov 12, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

I made the "lern 2 counter" joke because it always crops up. Is it fair to say that because there are counters, that something isn't imbalanced?

Take for instance IWAY a year ago at this time. It was imbalanced, we accepted it, Anet accepted it and it was remedied. It could be countered though by the means of Wards, some Hexes, enchantments, snares and so on. If you're team used such a build you'd cope with IWAY but say there was a ranger spike team on the following map... can you prepare for all eventualities?

Applying that to todays metagame, you can bring mesmers with energy denial, Backfire and interrupts and your monks can bring Mantra of Flame but if you face a dual-Paragon and Thumper team what use is Mantra of Flame and Backfire?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse at Large

Power Block - 15, 3/4, 30

If target foe is casting a spell, that spell is interrupted. The interrupted spell and all spells of the same attribute are disabled for 3-13 seconds for that foe. This is an elite skill

And what about the other 3 eles spamming their skills at you? Now that casters are in the minority, Powerblock isn't very versatile.

Dravyn · Nov 12, 2006, 12:50 AM // 00:50

lol at all the eles screaming bloody murder. Elementalists did need a boost..but its like that "give em and inch and they take a mile" routine..Anet uses a sledgehammer when they try to make subtle changes.

Elementalists need to be toned down. Personally, after having played both a war and ele, I chuckled to myself everytime ele's cried about war dmg (ie, the easiest class in the game to shut down). Eles, now, are powerhouses, and it takes very specific classes to shut them down. RA and TA can both be combined into one arena called EA now, and its a bit ridiculous. Of course, all you elementalists out there are going to blow a gasket reading this, but its the truth. Live it up, and here's hoping that Anet can practice some finesse rather than overboosting/nerfing.

some guy · Nov 12, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

I'd like to see someone consistantly counter a 1 second casting spell. (and since any Ele with a clue will be using a 20/20 set with Searing Flames, that's often less.).

Anyways, the best way to fix Searing Flames would be to increase it to a 2 second cast. That would be fair.

Yeah, that will be a good idea, it will keep the ele damage up and not overpowering it.

Mouse at Large · Nov 12, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

All I've tried to point out is that by a quick scan of only 1 class (mesmer - the thread starter's posted profession), I can find a whole lot of skills to counter SF/GG.

I leave the wider anaysis of how the rest of the classes can counter the "threat" posed by these skills to them

TGgold · Nov 12, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

I made the "lern 2 counter" joke because it always crops up. Is it fair to say that because there are counters, that something isn't imbalanced?

Take for instance IWAY a year ago at this time. It was imbalanced, we accepted it, Anet accepted it and it was remedied. It could be countered though by the means of Wards, some Hexes, enchantments, snares and so on. If you're team used such a build you'd cope with IWAY but say there was a ranger spike team on the following map... can you prepare for all eventualities?

Applying that to todays metagame, you can bring mesmers with energy denial, Backfire and interrupts and your monks can bring Mantra of Flame but if you face a dual-Paragon and Thumper team what use is Mantra of Flame and Backfire?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

Eles, now, are powerhouses, and it takes very specific classes to shut them down.

Well, don't be a hypocrit and then give a counter to prove that the fact a counter exists isn't a valid arguement.

On the subject: Why not have an interrupt mesmer. They'd wreak bloody havok on the eles, and are useful versus virtually every team out there. Even CoF makes them valuable enough verses paras and any type of ball setup. Now, if the mesmer has Power Block, Cof, a res, and say 2 E-Man skills (P.Drain as one), there's 3 slots left to do other utility things.

So, now that one slot has become a valuable member to any party, AND almost toally eradicates some of the Eles....what's left to do? I mean, maybe have a ranger with DShot, in case the mezzy slips up. That's 1 of 7 skills that the ranger would have. Or a Para has distracting spear, which has enough utilities as well. I mean, come on, really now people. :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by some guy

Yeah, that will be a good idea, it will keep the ele damage up and not overpowering it.

A 2 sec cast would make this skill virtually useless. Well, it may get play on a strange Mesmer gimmic, but asides from that the skill would be interrupt fodder.

makosi · Nov 12, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

Well, don't be a hypocrit and then give a counter to prove that the fact a counter exists isn't a valid arguement.

If a counter exists, it doesn't mean the skills in question aren't imbalanced.

Lord Oranos · Nov 12, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

The valid argument of counters is that the Mesmer class exists, but I guess people are afraid of guilds not using warriors as the main form of damage anymore, that stale bs has been going on for how long now?

The damage can be shutdown, the warder you talked about counters the thumpers just fine, Rspike can be countered by Shields Up, which people already use. The Searing Flames ele can be countered easily by skills that are already commonly used, so can the surge bot.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0069271&page=6

This has already been beat into the ground already anyway.

Kit Engel · Nov 12, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Hey, look, a use for Xinrae's Weapon or Defiant was Xinrae. XD

makosi · Nov 12, 2006, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Waaay back in Guild Wars' infancy, Zealot's Fire triggered with Stances, Spells and Skills (if I recall correctly) and a Smiter only had to be nearby and bash his/her buttons to cause a mass of damage to surrounding foes. Why was it nerfed though? Blackout, snares, enchantment hate, knockdowns all countered it but your team had to go to a great deal of bother countering it.

It was nerfed/balanced.

Case and point, counters are not always the only answer.

Count to Potato · Nov 12, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Ward against Harm, Ward against Elements, Extinguish????

makosi · Nov 12, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count to Potato

Ward against Harm, Ward against Elements, Extinguish????

Yeah, I would definitely consider those skills myself for protection against Searing Flames but at the same time I'd want thumper protection so Ward Against Melee and Ward Against Foes. That would probably be great for survivability but for every defensive skill you bring, you lose one offensive skill.

Dutch Masterr · Nov 12, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

hey everyone instead of being assholes, maybe you should understand what im trying to say. incase you havent noticed, not every has or plays as mesemers. eles are strong and instead of making an overpowered skill like searing flames, why not just use mark of rodgort? just as easy and it works better.....yeah i can bring a counter if i want, but im not dedicating a build just to counter 1 type of character. before nightfall every other character wasnt an ele, now almost all of them are....by the way, instead of acting like immature bastards, just state you opinion and dont be an ass about it.

Lord Oranos · Nov 12, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Waaay back in Guild Wars' infancy, Zealot's Fire triggered with Stances, Spells and Skills (if I recall correctly) and a Smiter only had to be nearby and bash his/her buttons to cause a mass of damage to surrounding foes. Why was it nerfed though? Blackout, snares, enchantment hate, knockdowns all countered it but your team had to go to a great deal of bother countering it.

It was nerfed/balanced.

Case and point, counters are not always the only answer.

It was balanced because it wasn't meant to work like that, a valid counter to an extremely weak build that can easily be fit into a team build is not out of the question. So are you telling me that taking a dom mesmer, something that has been used for a very long time is too much to counter that?

Lord Oranos · Nov 12, 2006, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Masterr

hey everyone instead of being assholes, maybe you should understand what im trying to say. incase you havent noticed, not every has or plays as mesemers. eles are strong and instead of making an overpowered skill like searing flames, why not just use mark of rodgort? just as easy and it works better.....yeah i can bring a counter if i want, but im not dedicating a build just to counter 1 type of character. before nightfall every other character wasnt an ele, now almost all of them are....by the way, instead of acting like immature bastards, just state you opinion and dont be an ass about it.

The point is searing flames can be countered by other professions, the damage can be mitigated by anyone with plague touch, interrupts, enchantment removal(not mesmer enchant removal in case you want to flame me about that).

The easiest way to beat them is to just plow through them, might be harder in gvg, but in things like ab or ra where they wont always have a monk to babysit them, they go down pretty easily. 2 second casting would make it near useless, a damage reduction from 119 to a more reasonable point.

*Edit* Sorry about the double post.

You dont have to make an entire build to counter this, one or two skills is all it takes. If you use it before you encounter one, is that his fault?

makosi · Nov 12, 2006, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Oranos

It was balanced because it wasn't meant to work like that, a valid counter to an extremely weak build that can easily be fit into a team build is not out of the question.

Nobody said the old Zealot's Fire smiters weren't supposed to work like that in the same way that nobody says that Searing Flame + Glowing Gaze elementalists aren't supposed to deal 119 damage + 119 damage + long burning on an adjacent scale. Neither builds are weak and both have valid counters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Oranos

So are you telling me that taking a dom mesmer, something that has been used for a very long time is too much to counter that?

A dom mesmer does counter a Searing elementalist quite well but a Searing elementalist also counters and dom mesmer.

Lord Oranos · Nov 12, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Nobody said the old Zealot's Fire smiters weren't supposed to work like that in the same way that nobody says that Searing Flame + Glowing Gaze elementalists aren't supposed to deal 119 damage + 119 damage + long burning on an adjacent scale. Neither builds are weak and both have valid counters.

A dom mesmer does counter a Searing elementalist quite well but a Searing elementalist also counters and dom mesmer.

I meant weak in defense, the Searing Flames fotm cant handle very much pressure, its a glass cannon. I dont really understand that one, a dom mesmer can throw diversion on them, shatter both the enchantments they use, not to mention an interrupt, sure the fotm flames can take one out, but it rends him nearly useless afterwards. In terms of a nerf to searing flames, a reduction to its damage range would work well.

makosi · Nov 12, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Oranos

I meant weak in defense, the Searing Flames fotm cant handle very much pressure, its a glass cannon. I dont really understand that one, a dom mesmer can throw diversion on them, shatter both the enchantments they use, not to mention an interrupt, sure the fotm flames can take one out, but it rends him nearly useless afterwards.

Yeah that's a good point with the enchantment removal, diversion and interrupts but the ele almost always uses Glyph of Sacrifice + Meteor Shower on threats so i suppose its a case of who gets to who first.