Curse

arcady · Sep 16, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Looking to do something different with my second elementalist (my first was Earth). She's a Nightfall elementalist and she's just reached the Command Post, with a little stop over on the way to get "Elemental Attunement."

Any build tips, or general suggestions in building a build based around water, or a combination of water and air? I went to the pvxwiki site. While it had some builds for water, there weren't that many - not enough to get a good grasp on ways to play the element - much of what I found was heavily situation built or based around a particular elite rather than an overall concept.

Darkpower Alchemist · Sep 16, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Water in general is usually built around a situation, or a motivation to achieve a particular effect.
For example;

[skill]Water Attunement[/skill][skill]Deep Freeze[/skill][skill]Mind Freeze[/skill][skill]Maelstrom[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Lightning Orb[/skill][skill]Blinding Flash[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

In this build, the major useage of spells is to snare and shutdown another caster, as well as blind melee and also snare clustered enemies. The nature of the build can be changed dramatically by switching elites.

[skill]Water Attunement[/skill][skill]Deep Freeze[/skill][skill]Arc Lightning[/skill][skill]Blinding Surge[/skill][skill]Maelstrom[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

With the changing of the elite and the addition of HP, the ele has changed to a support role with a good balance of offense. Changing the elite again can make for a more offensive mindset;

[skill]Air Attunement[/skill][skill]Deep Freeze[/skill][skill]Arc Lightning[/skill][skill]Elemental Attunement[/skill][skill]Lightning Hammer[/skill][skill]Lightning Orb[/skill][skill]Blinding Flash[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

In this scenario, the snare is in play as well as the melee/spellcaster shutdown- yet, the offensive power has increased substantially. Also, the dual attunements make for better energy management and heavier spammability of the offensive spells and the Blinding. All that by essentially changing the elite.

Water bars are mostly made or broken by their elite. These bars are made up off the top of my head, so don't take them literally. I'm just pointing out that when using water or water/air builds, the elite usually dictates the bar's purpose,imho.

EDIT: All fixed now

arcady · Sep 17, 2007, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Thanks for those ideas.

What I meant by situation was 'built for a specific mission or specific PvP scenario' such as 'this build is designed to take out that other build when encountered in HA, and only that other build and only when encountered in HA,' or 'this build is made to take on Consulate Docks, but only that mission, and only if you have these heroes with you.'

In other words - built for a specific scenario, not 'this build is designed to be used like so.'

The Great Al · Sep 17, 2007, 04:58 AM // 04:58

if you know what the build is designed for, you shouldn't have much trouble figuring out when to use it.

Cebe · Sep 17, 2007, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Don't forget [wiki]Chilling Winds[/wiki]. It's a nice skill for having a longer lasting snare on a nasty melee boss and the like.

Also [skill]Chilling Winds[/skill] + [skill]Mind Freeze[/skill] = WIN in AB vs Assassins.

14 seconds of 90% slower REALLY hacks them off.

MBP · Sep 18, 2007, 08:45 PM // 20:45

I like doing

[skill]invoke lightning[/skill][skill]arc lightning[/skill][skill]chilling winds[/skill][skill]freezing gust[/skill][skill]blinding flash[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]air attunement[/skill][skill]resurrection chant[/skill]

Winterclaw · Oct 01, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Your NF only elites aren't that great for water mages, in fact NF is probably one of the worst games for hydros. You might want to go either invoke lightning or go /mo and put 10 points into healing prayers so you can bring LoD.

Do you have any non-NF games that you can cap an elite from?

This is what I usually currently use for a water only build, but it could be improved:
OgNDsMjtSrDVDpMQi+DQDPDoRA

Sir Pandra Pierva · Oct 02, 2007, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Go water only if you reallly want to use water in pve. In pve eles should really only stick 1 element

tenshi_strife · Oct 02, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

not really, useing 2 elements in pve is not a bad idea depending on the situation.

Dr Strangelove · Oct 02, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

not really, useing 2 elements in pve is not a bad idea depending on the situation.

Usually it involves splashing wards or blind onto a fire bar that can actually kill things.

Water and air are both support lines, which makes them not complement each other particulary well, even with anet trying to make that happen with things like arc lightning.

Air is blind and nothing else, while water is snares and a few defensive spells. if you need a snare, blind, and blurred vision, you're most likely doing something wrong

On builds:

Darkpower's builds are really terrible. Don't use them. they have massive energy issues in exchange for stupid stuff like maelstrom on an air bar.

To be honest, there's very few times where water is a good idea in PvE. Against massed fire eles in GWEN, I ran this:

[skill]ice spikes[/skill][skill]deep freeze[/skill][skill]blurred vision[/skill][skill]ward against harm[/skill][skill]extinguish[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]water attunement[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

sort of a ward bitch for water, makes those nasty SF eles not matter.

other than that, I've never run 16 in water, as all the other stuff works fine with 8-9 spec.

[skill]rust[/skill] Is hilarious in areas with lots of signets, notably including healing signet for 6 seconds of -40 armor, and for pretty much disabling rez sigs.

[skill]deep freeze[/skill] snares for 10 seconds without any points in water, making it an awesome snare for stuff like [skill]savannah heat[/skill]

[skill]slippery ground[/skill] is ok as a gale replacement on a blindbot bar.

[skill]steam[/skill] gives fire eles a blind skill

I've seen some ride the lightning/ice prison/lightning touch spike eles in GvG and RA, but honestly, if you get killed by one of those, you're terrible.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Oct 02, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

also Josh to your point it can be good in a few areas and 90% of those if not all of them are for farming.

chikorita23 · Oct 02, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

I'm usually using both Water for Pve and PvP! Ever since Prophecie until Eye of the North.

Thanks to all kinds of new spells, Water in PvE are more and more useful and deadly.

I dunno why people still have this stereo type impression on Water = Defense and snare only.

Shatterstone (water elite) + Glowing Ice + Freezing Gust + Maelstrom can form a nice big dmg combo!

Along with some AoE snare or Vapor Blade *good for instant big dmg on caster without enchantment*

If you want Blind... I even go for Glyph of Immolation *only 3 points on Fire will be enough* the rest u go on Water and Energy Storage. U combine Glyph of Immolation + Steam + Slippery Ground + Water Trident *water elite*, you will achieve both buring, blind, knockdown and dmg!

Ward against harm is good... but I normally reserve my Water Elite to Water Trident *low energy spammable fast recharge with KD* or Shatterstone.

Mind Freeze is good, only u have to watch out ur energy! And the new water spell Glowing Ice is SO SO HELPFUL with both Mind Freeze and Shatterstone.

In AB or GvG or any PvP, don't forgot Icy Shackle *elite* can be a very useful long duration 90% slow hex on Enchanted foe! (generally making them take full hit of your maelstrom + totally shut down their spells)

Sir Pandra Pierva · Oct 02, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Water has become more deadly in pve yes but is still mostly used for snaring enimies where ever it is used. Also most people don't really see the dmg of water they always see it used in HA snare builds and stuff like that. Even it's dmg builds always have a little snare in them as well. Mostly......I have never seen a water ele build without some kind of snaring ability.

bhavv · Oct 20, 2007, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Water/Air hybrid builds fail immensly in PVE.

However, a water hero with dr strangelove's build and 3 Air ellys with arc lightning and lightning touch on their bars = win win. I use 2 x invoke, 1 x ward against harm, and I go blinding surge.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10200208

Check here.

rick1027 · Oct 20, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

Water in general is usually built around a situation, or a motivation to achieve a particular effect.
For example;

[skill]Water Attunement[/skill][skill]Deep Freeze[/skill][skill]Arc Lightning[/skill][skill]Mind Freeze[/skill][skill]Maelstrom[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Lightning Orb[/skill][skill]Blinding Flash[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

In this build, the major useage of spells is to snare and shutdown another caster, as well as blind melee and also snare clustered enemies. The nature of the build can be changed dramatically by switching elites.

[skill]Water Attunement[/skill][skill]Deep Freeze[/skill][skill]Arc Lightning[/skill][skill]Blinding Surge[/skill][skill]Maelstrom[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Lightning Orb[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

With the changing of the elite and the addition of HP, the ele has changed to a support role with a good balance of offense. Changing the elite again can make for a more offensive mindset;

[skill]Air Attunement[/skill][skill]Deep Freeze[/skill][skill]Arc Lightning[/skill][skill]Elemental Attunement[/skill][skill]Maelstrom[/skill][skill]Lightning Hammer[/skill][skill]Lightning Orb[/skill][skill]Blinding Flash[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

In this scenario, the snare is in play as well as the melee/spellcaster shutdown- yet, the offensive power has increased substantially. Also, the dual attunements make for better energy management and heavier spammability of the offensive spells and the Blinding. All that by essentially changing the elite.

Water bars are mostly made or broken by their elite. These bars are made up off the top of my head, so don't take them literally. I'm just pointing out that when using water or water/air builds, the elite usually dictates the bar's purpose,imho.

just a quick question when did you be able to run nine skills on your bar i want the same thing seeing i only got eight spots

Ensign · Oct 20, 2007, 10:56 PM // 22:56

This is what I'd consider a good Water bar in GW:EN for doing the fire dungeons:

Ward Against Harm
Blurred Vision
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Power Drain
Pain Inverter
"Finish Him!"
Breath of the Great Dwarf
Resurrection Signet

12+1+1 Water Magic
8+1 Energy Storage
10 Inspiration

If you're fighting Destroyers, an Air bar can be good:

Blinding Surge
Enervating Charge
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Air Attunement
Alkar's Alchemical Acid
"Finish Him!"
Pain Inverter
Resurrection Signet

12+1+1 Air Magic
12 Energy Storage

Those two bars should give you a pretty good idea of how PvE Air and Water Eles should look.

Dr Strangelove · Oct 20, 2007, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Ward Against Harm
Blurred Vision
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Power Drain
Pain Inverter
"Finish Him!"
Breath of the Great Dwarf
Resurrection Signet

12+1+1 Water Magic
8+1 Energy Storage
10 Inspiration
Those two bars should give you a pretty good idea of how PvE Air and Water Eles should look.

Completely lacking water skills?

I kid, I kid.

Pyro maniac · Oct 20, 2007, 11:44 PM // 23:44

[skill]Gust[/skill] + [skill]Freezing Gust[/skill]

It sucks probably, but still .. ^^

Winterclaw · Oct 21, 2007, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Last time I tried it, gust works well enough in RA...

Which means nothing.

Darkpower Alchemist · Oct 21, 2007, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick1027

just a quick question when did you be able to run nine skills on your bar i want the same thing seeing i only got eight spots

Good lord! I was blind and sleepy at the time I wrote that. Just fixed it up.