Curse

Syntonic · Jan 18, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Has anyone played a bit with caltrops and water snaring yet? Considering you only need a modest amount in Shadow Arts to get gain perma cripple status followed by water hexes, I imagine you can become an ultra snare machine for teh lulz. Condition removal might be a problem but is a small adjacent foe based AoE criiple much like ice spikes. With so little points necessary for caltrops, it may be possible to keep points in wards and the like. The point split might be kinda hard though but on the bright side, it's a 1/4th cast.

Dr Strangelove · Jan 18, 2008, 07:20 AM // 07:20

I don't see much point in adding snares to a character that already has several good snares.

Anyway, it's still a fairly expensive skill. I can't immediately think of a place I'd want to use it, since most melee classes already have better anti-kite toys.

EDIT: It could be nice to splash onto a midline character that doesn't already have a snare, like perhaps a blindbot.

Ensign · Jan 18, 2008, 10:46 AM // 10:46

It's on par with Crippling Dagger and Siphon Speed now, probably a bit better than the former and a bit weaker than the latter. I'd look at it if I wanted to use Shadow Arts instead of Deadly Arts on a character that wanted a snare. I wouldn't use any of those on a Water Ele, or on a character that otherwise already had excellent snaring capabilities.

If you want to snare someone and do little else, don't look any further than Dr. Snare.

LifeInfusion · Jan 18, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

actually I remembered what was discussed when I mentioned this change with Ensign briefly yesterday. The main problem is even though it might be a viable snare in terms of recharge/cast time the energy and half range still limit it.

Dr Strangelove · Jan 18, 2008, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

actually I remembered what was discussed when I mentioned this change with Ensign briefly yesterday. The main problem is even though it might be a viable snare in terms of recharge/cast time the energy and half range still limit it.

That's what I thought, the cost is really painful. My first thought was that it might be nice when you're running like hell and need a snare a warrior quickly, but I probably play squishies a little too often.

NamelessBeauty · Jan 30, 2008, 02:56 PM // 14:56

No don't run Caltrop lol

Run Ward Against Foes if you want the best out of snare.

beanerman_99 · Jan 30, 2008, 07:13 PM // 19:13

I use this on my ele/sin in AB's. I actually think it makes a pretty decent snare. I am usually spec'd into fire and energy storage. I take 1(maybe 2)step down on my energy storage and put those points into Shadow Arts.

With just a few points into Shadow Arts you can cripple the opposing players for a longer period of time than you can with Ice snares at the same level. To get longer lasting snares in Ice you really have to bump Water up to quite high levels. Well, I don't want to take away from my Fire or Energy Storage so [card]Caltrops[/card] is really quite nice.

from wiki:
Shadow Arts 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
Crippled 5 6 6 7 8 8 9 10 10 11 12 12 13 14 14 15 16 16 17 18

Compare to some Ice snares:
[card]Ice Spikes[/card]
Water Magic 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
Cold Damage 20 24 28 32 36 40 44 48 52 56 60 64 68 72 76 80 84 88 92 96 100 104
Duration 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 5 5 5 5 6 6 6 7 7 7 7 8

[card]Frozen Burst[/card]
Water Magic 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
Cold Damage 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 100 105 110 115
Duration 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 5 6 6 6 7 7 7 8 8 8 9 9 9 10 10

[card]Shard Storm[/card]

Water Magic 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
Damage 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 100 105 110 115
Duration 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 5 5 5 5 6 6 6 7 7 7 7 8

[card]Deep Freeze[/card] isn't worth it to me due to high energy cost.

PLUS with some points into Shadow Arts you can take a self-heal like [card]Feigned Neutrality[/card], or an escape like [card]Dark Escape[/card].

I'm not saying this is uber leet or anything, but I think Caltrops does have a viable use in areas like AB. Plus its fun to play!

Sir Pandra Pierva · Jan 30, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

hmm
I tend to not like running anything else when going water it seems to have enough enegy problems as it is.

but it can work though usually not worth it

ZenRgy · Jan 31, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by beanerman_99

Snares and numbers

You left out [skill]Freezing Gust[/skill], One of the best snares in the game.

NamelessBeauty · Jan 31, 2008, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Run a Crip Shot Flame Burst E/R ^_^" I'm jk btw!

beanerman_99 · Jan 31, 2008, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Freezing gust is good.

The problem with water snares that has bugged me for a loooong time is that the duration of them is really short when compared to the duration of other snares that other classes have. Take a Ranger. They can cripple you for what seems like forever compared to the short duration of Water snares. A Mesmer can Burden you until your dead. So why can't the duration of Water snares get a boost to match the other professions?

Stormlord Alex · Jan 31, 2008, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by beanerman_99

So why can't the duration of Water snares get a boost to match the other professions?

Compared to the Mesmer's 'Burden' snares, Water hexes have a much, much shorter cooldown. Water snares are superior in this respect, you're more likely to have Freezing Gust available to you when you need it, as opposed to waiting on a 30 second cooldown.

Compared to a Ranger's Cripshot, hexes as a whole are peskier to remove (Holy Veil has a 12 sec recharge, Dismiss Condition 3 sec)

Shadow-Hunter · Feb 04, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Well... I dont really have that much experince with Eles yet (lvl 6 and rising ^^) but, imo Grasping Earth from the Earth magic line seems really good. 5 energy, 3/4 sec cast, 12 sec recharge, and 8...18..21 duration on it. (slows adjent foes by 50%, Hex spell)

While its a problem that it isnt ranged, then even with very low Earth magic you get a pretty long duration, compared to the cost, cast and recharge time.

Imo I think this would be the pefered snare for me if I had to snare ppl with lets say a Fire build.

ZenRgy · Feb 04, 2008, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow-Hunter

Well... I dont really have that much experince with Eles yet (lvl 6 and rising ^^) but, imo Grasping Earth from the Earth magic line seems really good. 5 energy, 3/4 sec cast, 12 sec recharge, and 8...18..21 duration on it. (slows adjent foes by 50%, Hex spell)

While its a problem that it isnt ranged, then even with very low Earth magic you get a pretty long duration, compared to the cost, cast and recharge time.

Imo I think this would be the pefered snare for me if I had to snare ppl with lets say a Fire build.

Grasping earth is very popular, as well as [skill]Ward Against Foes[/skill] for ele snares not in the water line, and sees play on many secondary eles in HA and GvG for reasons you stated (low cost, quick cast and a decent recharge).

But if an elementalist was to devote themself entirely to snaring then water is the best line.

Dodo The Extinct · Feb 04, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

I always thought Caltrops on a Mindblast would be uber cool