Curse

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 05, 2008, 07:36 AM // 07:36

(Sorry if this has been said before, or if this is in the wrong spot. I know there are a number of ER threads, but I didn't see anything like this :/)

Be clear before posting that this is not an argument over whether ER is imbalanced or not. It is a discussion about how one would go about fixing it

The Pros:
-ER got no use before it's buff, now it's getting plenty
-besides farming, eles were not nearly as versatile as necros. Now they can make amazing healers and prots, as well as nukers and farmers.

The Cons
- It is clearly broken. When an ele can spam 5 energy spells and GAIN 3 energy and decent self healing with only ONE other enchantment on him, and spam 10 energy heals for only 2 energy, the problem becomes clear.
-Not even stripping ER will stop it. It has a fair enough recharge that, unless you are burning over 100 energy before it is recharged, you are fine.

My most logical solution would be as such:

1) Ammount of energy gained cannot exceed 50% of the cost of the spell cast
50% is just a guesstimate. perhaps a higher % for sake of nukers using higher cost spells

2)reduce energy gained to it's previous state
There was no way this logically deserved a buff in the first place. The problem was in it's duration vs recharge.

Hodgie · Jun 05, 2008, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Just crank the recharge up to like 45 secs or somthing or still have it at 30 but it is disabled like the avatars and since i dnt think there is a skill other than [air of superiority] and [eternal aura] (which only does derv skills lol) that can get a skill back through instant regen or anything like that which would make it much bett imho.

Stormlord Alex · Jun 05, 2008, 10:21 AM // 10:21

I wouldn't fix it.

It opens up more options for eles to play and - in this Ursan-centric PvE - more diversity is good, no matter how broken.

Fix Ursan, and then we'll talk.

Ghostcell · Jun 05, 2008, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

I wouldn't fix it.

It opens up more options for eles to play and - in this Ursan-centric PvE - more diversity is good, no matter how broken.

Fix Ursan, and then we'll talk.

+1
12chars.................

Symbiont · Jun 05, 2008, 11:49 AM // 11:49

It's only for PVE and you're getting the benefits of it, so why really be bothered about dissecting it to bits, unless you're one of those people who think the game is getting too easy...

The Meth · Jun 05, 2008, 11:53 AM // 11:53

I was prepared to offer a witty remark about how it was fixed years ago, but after I read this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

I wouldn't fix it.

It opens up more options for eles to play and - in this Ursan-centric PvE - more diversity is good, no matter how broken.

Fix Ursan, and then we'll talk.

I kinda have to agree that its by far the lesser two evils. I guess its a 1 in a million shot anet's intent is to wean people off of ursan so they can nerf it, but lets go for it anyway. 99% of ele's in PvE are going to be running fire builds anyway, and its not like dual attunes weren't good enough at that before.

Johny bravo · Jun 05, 2008, 12:49 PM // 12:49

I guess this is much like the necro SR arguement. ER now makes ele healers just as effective if not more effective then actualy monks. Now the heals might notbe as big but when you can spam heals on recharge with no energy issues it makes up for that. The same problem was there before the SR nerf. Necros had a near limitless source of energy using spirits as energy management. This was nerfed, and while SR is still the best primary attribute in the game, IMO, it put the necromanacer back in check.
Now while ER is unbalenced it is only so on the PvE side and I am not sure heros use it right so really its only a factor if you want to abuse it. PvE just isn't that hard, and this come from a PvE guy, with the right group any area can be rolled through (non-ursan) so unless I go to TOA or DOA and see people forming parties consiting of E/X then URSAN is still the skill to nerf

mage767 · Jun 05, 2008, 04:25 PM // 16:25

OK, here is my input after having used "ER Prot" and "ER Heal" versions in EoTN in HM during dungeoning.

ER Prot beats a prot monk hands down, I mean by a mile. Everyone in the team I was with ran normal builds like SS, nuke etc. Only 1-2 guys (warriors) felt that Ursan was needed. I had reminded the non-ursans that I would watch their back during battle. The only single healing monk was sceptic about my build, but when he saw it in action, he was pleased to have a ER Prot ele in the group.

I also ran ER Healer but found it less effective than a traditional HB monk. With no bonus from divine, ER healers cannot exceed monks in performance. Using mindblender halves casting time but the recharge of heal party of 2s is still not a spammable thing. Infuse works to some degree but because warriors tend to aggro carelessly, it is usually too late to save them. Hence a ER Prot is a much better choice, cast PS and let them aggro as much as them want. Also cast SB and SG and let the healer heal up the slowly falling health bars.

It is possible to run a ER Prot and ER Healer in HM, but I have not yet run it in a team with another ele taking the healer spot. I tried it on my heroes, and we can form a team that has no monks.

How do I feel about ER? I think it's great. I think it gives eles an opportunity to diversify their skill set, and make them more useful in groups. I do agree it is overpowered, but it is NOT invincible. Enemies HAVE removed my enchants at times and blood necros can simple eat all your health. So, a ER Prot/Healer really needs to stand at the back unless you use Vital Attunement on yourself. With VA, your health will exceed 600 and enemies are unlikely to hit a high HP foe such as yourself that heals at every spell. This will allow you to stand in the middle of battle and cast high speed prot spells.

My current feeling is that there are many players in the game who have still to master the basic elements of air, fire, water and earth. It would still take some time for the general crowd to shift to ER monking builds. I however like it as it is because it allows experienced eles (those who have played monk primary before) to join groups when monks cannot be found. This is especially important because I'm accumulating all my titles on my ele.

I have 9 other characters one of each profession, and since ER is an energy storage elite, it is unique to eles only. I don't see how other characters can abuse it to a level where it breaks the game (like ursan did). Now, mesmer can mimic ER but it not a worthwhile investment.

Yichi · Jun 05, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11

how would I fix Ether Renewal?

With a sledgehammer to the face

Tyla · Jun 05, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

We will fix it by breaking it's nose and kicking it in the private area!

Chthon · Jun 05, 2008, 07:42 PM // 19:42

1. I'm not 100% sure, but I tend to agree with this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

I wouldn't fix it.

It opens up more options for eles to play and - in this Ursan-centric PvE - more diversity is good, no matter how broken.

Fix Ursan, and then we'll talk.

2. If you want to fix it, the solution is obvious. Longer recharge.

3. E.Renewal makes SR look like a joke. Can we please get that stupid timer off SR now?

Abedeus · Jun 05, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Just what Alex and Chthon said. Fix Ursan, then fix ER.

Alex the Great · Jun 05, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

I"d buff the duration from 7 seconds to somewhere around 20, and give the energy a little boost.

wait, I think i'm a bit late rofl.

if u wanna make it more balanced, just decrease energy gained to 2 or 3 at 15 ES. that makes it viable due to ability to keep it up, but lowers the amout of times you actually make a profit on energy.

rick1027 · Jun 05, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

I wouldn't fix it.

It opens up more options for eles to play and - in this Ursan-centric PvE - more diversity is good, no matter how broken.

Fix Ursan, and then we'll talk.

your definately right there same goes with shadowform

Div · Jun 05, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Who cares if it's overpowered? You asked for the PvP/PvE divide, and that's what you get. OP PvE skills.

Dzan · Jun 05, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

What areas of the game were hard to beat but this skill made easier? None, therefore there is nothing wrong with it.

CE Devilman · Jun 05, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

pve will get more buff and pvp will get more nerf

Turbobusa · Jun 05, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Noh you can juste bond an entire team and spam the crap out of 10e spells without going under 80 energy. Nothing wrong with it.

TheGuildWarsPenguin · Jun 06, 2008, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

I wouldn't fix it.

It opens up more options for eles to play and - in this Ursan-centric PvE - more diversity is good, no matter how broken.

Fix Ursan, and then we'll talk.

Prz I rly ned.

Magikarp · Jun 06, 2008, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Who cares if it's overpowered? You asked for the PvP/PvE divide, and that's what you get. OP PvE skills.

LOL good one.. you never fail in making me laugh.

as far as fixing ER, i simply say extend its recharge so it has to be disabled for at least 10-25 seconds, and possibly reduce its energy return.