Curse

Bobby2 · Dec 03, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Fire damage is heavily outclassed by other professions (read: physicals) in HM. No opinion, no Guru meta, fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Ops

sf, glowing gaze, liquid flame, pain inverter, meteor shower, gole, fire attunement, rez.

I've done everything in pve, vanquishes, missions, cartographers, skill hunters, reputation titles.

I must commend you on your patience.

snaek · Dec 04, 2008, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

be careful when you talk about [meteor shower] in guru or you will be lit on fire by all the uniting flamers of Guru. Even though it has lots of good uses, people here like to say that it doesn't. I haven't figured out why yet, but maybe one of these days ill figure out why multiple AoE knockdowns with one spell is a bad thing.
So far these are the reasons why [[meteor shower] sucks bawls
1. 5 second cast time (and dont try to say [glyph of sacrifice][meteor shower] because you will receive further flaming saying that you are wasting 2 skill slots to make one skill go from baed to mediocre)

2. Its fire magic (as we all know fire magix is the devil)

3. [[deep freeze] is a better snare even though IMO KD is always a better snare (In HM [[deep freeze] only slows enemies down 16%-33% but mostly its just 16%) some snare huh?

4. long recharge unless you are [[assassins promise]

5. Its exhausting and expensive.

those are 5 reasons why [[meteor shower] is the worst skill ever.

dun forget that heroes like to finish casting meteor shower only after everything has already died

Wish Swiftdeath · Dec 04, 2008, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

dun forget that heroes like to finish casting meteor shower only after everything has already died

The legendary victory shower

daze · Dec 04, 2008, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

dun forget that heroes like to finish casting meteor shower only after everything has already died

Id only give [[meteor shower] to a hero if they had tons of e-management like dual attunement.
But sometimes when a hero wastes a meteor shower, ill go and run under it so any melee might follow me under the shower.
It is still probably best to disable it and then micro manage it for the opening of a battle.

MegaVolti · Dec 04, 2008, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Id only give [[meteor shower] to a hero if they had tons of e-management like dual attunement.
But sometimes when a hero wastes a meteor shower, ill go and run under it so any melee might follow me under the shower.
It is still probably best to disable it and then micro manage it for the opening of a battle.

I found [[Meteor] (or [[Earthquake]) to be me useful on heroes then [[Meteor Shower] if you don't want to micromanage them.

Tyla · Dec 04, 2008, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Ops

I've done everything in pve, vanquishes, missions, cartographers, skill hunters, reputation titles. Mostly h/h, always fire magic. I agree, for some areas, other attributes are better. And of course, genarally everything works in pve. I'm not going to start argue about this in Guru, I've tried before and it just leads to flaming by people who haven't actually even played ele in pve.

I used mostly sf, glowing gaze, liquid flame, pain inverter, meteor shower, gole, fire attunement, rez. And ele hero with pain inverter replaced by mor. I'm not saying it's the ultimate choice for every area but tbh, it beat every. Anyway, I'm not going to argue it anymore, the GWG meta says fire sucks and people won't agree anything else.

PvE isn't hard anyway (Which you openly stated, hurting your own post...). There is no such thing as a "GWG Meta", just scattered arguments for and against (And there is even a very well detailed post by Ensign on the matter. Search "Why Nuking Sucks" and you'll know. Also, it's still a very viable thread). Fire Elementalist isn't the be all or end all of an Elementalist.

Try again please.

Also, without guaranteed HCT Meteor Shower sucks because by the time you finish casting it it's doing nothing but raining on unpopulated ground, or scattering the rest wasting 25 energy discounting attunements, glyphs and such. This is not to mention the lackluster damage and weak knockdown rate that is stronger in both damage and utility by Earth Shaker, even when it comes to ES'ing as a caster.

Fril Estelin · Dec 04, 2008, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Also, without guaranteed HCT Meteor Shower sucks because by the time you finish casting it it's doing nothing but raining on unpopulated ground, or scattering the rest wasting 25 energy discounting attunements, glyphs and such.

Like daze said, and although I rarely use it that way in PvE (more in AB), MS gives the ele a nice little "protection" from melees, in the sense of a zone where you can "hide" inside (a bit of dmg and KD is not bad either when used with Earth; and that's when monks or rits aren't protecting me). Not for long of course, and it won't protect you from casters, but just enough to get out of the danger (until your melees catch up...).

Tyla · Dec 04, 2008, 02:38 PM // 14:38

[churning earth][unsteady ground][eruption]

Less casting time. Less recharge. No exhaustion.

Dan Ops · Dec 04, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

PvE isn't hard anyway (Which you openly stated, hurting your own post...). There is no such thing as a "GWG Meta", just scattered arguments for and against (And there is even a very well detailed post by Ensign on the matter. Search "Why Nuking Sucks" and you'll know. Also, it's still a very viable thread). Fire Elementalist isn't the be all or end all of an Elementalist.

Try again please.

Also, without guaranteed HCT Meteor Shower sucks because by the time you finish casting it it's doing nothing but raining on unpopulated ground, or scattering the rest wasting 25 energy discounting attunements, glyphs and such. This is not to mention the lackluster damage and weak knockdown rate that is stronger in both damage and utility by Earth Shaker, even when it comes to ES'ing as a caster.

Oh, well I read that post, some interesting reading actually. Too bad it assumes that both warrior and ele are hitting one target at time. Here's how I beat the PvE side of the game: my group (minions in front) lures the enemy group, my minions rush in and enemies nicely get blocked against minions. Hit MS, spam SF + some other aoe skills. After 10 seconds the enemy group is dead and I move to next one and repeat.

Seriously, fire deals nice amounts of damage, even against HM mob (if it's not destroyer or something like that) if dealing damage to every enemy, unlike warrior does. I of course have tried all other elements as well, didn't find them better and definately not faster. Anyway I'm not going to argue about this more, I found fire good, that's it. Also, depending on area I ran a lot of MB + rodgort + support skills. That was back in the days when even Tyla agreed how infinite energy management MB is.

Also, anything > PvE.

Tyla · Dec 04, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Ops

Oh, well I read that post, some interesting reading actually. Too bad it assumes that both warrior and ele are hitting one target at time. Here's how I beat the PvE side of the game: my group (minions in front) lures the enemy group, my minions rush in and enemies nicely get blocked against minions. Hit MS, spam SF + some other aoe skills. After 10 seconds the enemy group is dead and I move to next one and repeat.

Seriously, fire deals nice amounts of damage, even against HM mob (if it's not destroyer or something like that) if dealing damage to every enemy, unlike warrior does. I of course have tried all other elements as well, didn't find them better and definately not faster. Anyway I'm not going to argue about this more, I found fire good, that's it. Also, depending on area I ran a lot of MB + rodgort + support skills. That was back in the days when even Tyla agreed how infinite energy management MB is.

Also, anything > PvE.

Maybe you should do your homework.

Let's take a look at several abilities a Warrior, or any other melee profession for that matter can take advantage of.

[triple chop][cyclone axe][whirlwind attack][crude swing][hundred blades][death blossom][eremite's attack]

Keep in mind I'm not restricting the use of Warriors' Endurance which gives me the ability to deal AoE damage with scythes inherantly and spam Death Blossom on the recharge of the chain.

As for Mind Blast, I'll highlight the key point within your own post as to why I agreed it was a great skill.

Quote:

Anyway I'm not going to argue about this more, I found fire good, that's it. Also, depending on area I ran a lot of MB + rodgort + support skills. That was back in the days when even Tyla agreed how infinite energy management MB is.

The damage is one story. The energy management is another. If you really believe that because of the massive energy management Mind Blast can bring up it makes Fire any good for damage, you're wrong. Simply put, Mind Blast allows you to fuel skills that surpass the damage of your petty Fire Magic while allowing incredible utility to be took advantage. If Fire Magic was that powerful, then Dual Attunement Fire Elementalists would be that much more awesome. Wierdly enough, it doesn't allow you to fuel skills such as Great Dwarf Weapon that incredibly. Even then, I'd probably take Ether Renewal instead for fueling skills which cost a shit ton of energy making defense and offense jump off the charts. Infuse Health offers a high healing skill which surpasses the healing strength of every other healing skill in the game, and Ether Renewal allows sheer spammability of that skill in conjunction with Aura of Restoration. It also allows a stupid amount of bonds to be placed, including a shit ton of Strength of Honours and Great Dwarf Weapons. Ether Renewal far surpasses the ability of Mind Blast. I think I've made my point now, don't you?

zwei2stein · Dec 04, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

[churning earth][unsteady ground][eruption]

Less casting time. Less recharge. No exhaustion.

No 3 seccond delay after casting was finished.

Omega Precept · Dec 05, 2008, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Earth HM, Water HM, Air HM, Fire HM.

Fire NM, Earth NM, Air NM, Water NM.

Second that, Especially fire in normal mode, nothing compares to good old fashion nuking with unlimited energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

No 3 seccond delay after casting was finished.

~Crazy long recharge time for those skills not worth it imo

Mouse at Large · Dec 05, 2008, 11:47 AM // 11:47

@ Tyla - all the melee skills you quote above are "adjacent" single effect AoE without DoT

Mark of Rodgort, Rodgorts Invocation, Heats etc. are all "near/nearby" AoE/DoT

Apples and oranges......

Tyla · Dec 05, 2008, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse at Large

Mark of Rodgort

lolno

Quote:

Rodgorts Invocation

Every 8 seconds.

Quote:

Heats etc. are all "near/nearby" AoE/DoT

Every 30 seconds, at least. Sometimes 20.

Oh. Casting time, aftercast, recharges are all something to take in by the way. That, and spamming Whirlwind Attack over and over is pretty cool aswell as effective.

By the way, there was no specification on range. Sorry if you missed that.