Curse

daze · Jan 13, 2009, 11:51 AM // 11:51

[savannah [email protected]] is also a fun build to play. It really only gets really good when you mix in [teinais [email protected]] and [searing [email protected]]. Basically it just creates lots of hot spots in the area which will do constant damage on top of forcing the enemies to run around not attacking you.

You can also add [intensity] to your fire build to spice it up a bit more.

[[email protected]][fire [email protected]][[email protected]][[email protected]][savannah [email protected]][[email protected]][glowing [email protected]][flame djinns [email protected]].. This build should actually get you all the way through nightfall.

Cebe · Jan 13, 2009, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

You can also add [intensity] to your fire build to spice it up a bit more.

Intensity seems too much of a waste since it was nerfed, like, 1 day after it was released. 10 seconds of additional damage with a 45 second recharge can't really be justified in a build in my eyes. Another PvE skill, or secondary skill, would be far more useful here, or even [[Mark of Rodgort].

Jeydra · Jan 13, 2009, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

Yea right, because I'll start doing speedruns of that one dungeon. Cry of Pain hits just as hard. Case closed.

Case is closed only when you provide the screenshots, which you haven't, and I'm not about to believe you until you do.

As for the rest of your post, that's why I laughed at your blanket statements. Read your post again. You said ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

2. Elementalists are no damage dealers in hard mode. Never. Never ever. Elementalist damage is always armor dependent and HM enemies have tons and tons of armor. The damage output simply sucks and there is no build that can even remotely compete with the damage output of Necromancers, Mesmers or any physicals.

You've just proved your original statement wrong by saying Searing Flames is 'not completely and utterly inferior' to the damage output of Necromancers, Mesmers or any physicals in Snowman HM. So ... far as I'm concerned, this is another case of 'don't make blanket statements unless you want to be embarassed'. And you know, I'm still not convinced that Cryway clears Snowman HM faster than massed Fire Elementalists, and you haven't provided screenshots, and in any case considering how overpowered Cryway is, the fact that massing Fire Elementalists even competes is an accomplishment in itself.

@Improvavel - feel free, as I wrote in another topic - top 400 kills in Dragon's Throat without a Fire Elementalist (post screenshots) and I'll believe you. The record last time I checked was over 600, with (three?) Fire Elementalists, so beat that if you can without one.

@daze - overkill energy management on that bar, you have no high-energy skills and yet both Glyph of Lesser Energy (presumably at 13 Energy Storage spec) and Glowing Gaze. Rodgort's Invocation would be an obvious choice except it's Prophecies, but there are other skills that can replace it (Liquid Flame in particular). Flame Djinn's Haste is no good either in PvE (what do you need the speedboost for, cartography?), so you might as well get Aegis, Wards or similar support skills.

Improvavel · Jan 14, 2009, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

@Improvavel - feel free, as I wrote in another topic - top 400 kills in Dragon's Throat without a Fire Elementalist (post screenshots) and I'll believe you. The record last time I checked was over 600, with (three?) Fire Elementalists, so beat that if you can without one.

If you want to play this game here it goes - kill Mallyx with Fire elementalists damage.

Want other? Do Glint's challenge with them.

Even if I do your challenges or you do mine, it still proves nothing.

Smiters do shit loads of damage vs undead. Does that make them gozu damage dealers? No!

A single (or even a dozen in a game with at least a couple of hundreds places) biased scenario doesn't change that.

You can choose to pick on all the small details and exceptions on the "bad fire damage in late NM and HM" argument you want. You won't be able to refute the core argument.

You won't be able to refute it because it's something that exists due to the game mechanics in place -> Higher level mob -> More armor -> less damage taken from auto-attacks and elemental damage.

This isn't an "all the fire eles haters want to bash eles" conspiracy (maybe evil necromancers wanting to replace all eles). In guild wars everyone has the chance to play every character.

So stop trying to make this argument a "them evil doers vs me the paladin of justice and savior of elementalists".

Really, as a guild wars players that play all the professions, I feel bad about the lackluster damage the so called damage caster does.

Last note: Elementalist is a powerful profession - just one that doesn't live to its supposed role of supreme damage dealer.

EDIT: Just looked at Dragon's Throat enemies list - IN NM ALL THE ENEMIES ARE LVL 20!!!! (except for the Bosses). Do you know what late NM and HM means in terms of MOBS levels, Jeydra?

What does bashing lvl 20 mobs and/or bashing snowmen that are weak to fire have to do with fighting lvl 26+ mobs in hm?

Jeydra · Jan 14, 2009, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Do I get a cookie for proving fire eles suck in NM?

If you agree that Fire Elementalists are great damage-dealers in NM, it means you get no cookie ...

EDIT - by the way, I am very aware of the fact that as enemies get higher level and armor gets higher, Elementalist damage weakens and eventually it is armor-ignoring damage (Spiteful Spirit, Splinter Weapon, Cry of Pain, etc) that deals the most damage. There are exceptions to this, eg. the Snowmen I mentioned above, but in general this is the case. I do not object to this, and I'm sure you can't find statements I've made here that claim this. What I have objected to is MegaVolti's blanket statements that put Fire Elementalists into a basket and label them 'worthless'. Far as I can tell, that is plain wrong, especially in NM.

So you can rage as much as you want, I'll just say that I agree with you almost completely. Although I never thought of it as 'enemies over level 26', instead judging by what my opponents are (eg. Snowmen are over level 20 [can't recall what level they are precisely] but still vulnerable to Fire, Kournan Rangers are not level 26 [level 24 if I remember right] but highly resistant to Elemental damage). Once it gets to the point where Fire spells deal 1/3 of their listed damage, they are obviously inferior and not worth using anymore, and you rely on alternative means of attack - see the quote I made in my first response to this topic.

Improvavel · Jan 14, 2009, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

So you can rage as much as you want, I'll just say that I agree with you almost completely.

I'm not raging, although I know the difference from raging to defend a position in, lets call it, a more eloquent way can be confused for that.

Your posts about "prove it to me by doing scenario x or y" do seem like a way to divert the attention from the major details.

The same about raging.

Raging or not, the game mechanics stand.

Unfortunately that means that elemental damage is a tad on the weak side in late nm and hm -26+ mobs have on average +3 armor per level, so 18 armor is close to 25% damage reduction (I haven't confirmed this personally, so might be BS).

Once you pair the damage with utility or nice side effects, you still have a strong profession.

I might be a bit too emotional about this. Mostly because is a pain in the ass to convince some elementalist players (same as only healing monks or tank warriors) that filling their bars with 6 fire damage spells is bad, especially when they are convinced their are the ubber killers of the party. When you want to do hard stuff, that can destroy your team (I wouldn't really care if not because my girl likes to play with other people, instead of 6 heroes, from time to time).

I said elementalist, monk and warriors, because they seem to be the most popular professions out there, although monk have taken a hit since NF and their monk heroes

.

I like elementalists. Would like their damage to be higher. But I've to admit the facts - as only damage (which is represented by the fire line) they are worse than others in late NM and HM.

Jeydra · Jan 14, 2009, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

But I've to admit the facts - as only damage (which is represented by the fire line) they are worse than others in late NM and HM.

And I agree, but you get no cookie.

If you're still unsatisfied and want to engage in a full-out pseudodebate, feel free to say so, and I'll give you a post-by-post analysis of why you are on a wild goose chase. And before you say so, I'll write this here: the main purpose of this post is to tell you that I agree that Fire is typically worse than others in late NM and HM, bar a few exceptions. Yes. I'll say so again. I agree that Fire is typically worse than others in late NM and HM, bar a few exceptions. However, if you still want to continue attacks on my posts, I am entirely willing to defend myself.

EDIT: Saw the post below, but one more thing before I start writing those very-long posts. If I go ahead, this thread will become expressly derailed, very far from its intended purpose and more of a clash between two specific people. It's very likely to be unwelcome in general, and therefore unless and until a mod makes a post that either ignores this or gives me permission to continue, I won't write any more on the issue. I might take it to PMs instead if no mod posts. Until then.

EDIT#2: I decided not to wait and go directly to PMs, so this thread can continue with its original purpose.

EDIT#3: Improvavel and I made peace. Thanks for showing the maturity not to come to blows, I really didn't have much hope when I sent the PM

Improvavel · Jan 14, 2009, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

And I agree, but you get no cookie.

If you're still unsatisfied and want to engage in a full-out pseudodebate, feel free to say so, and I'll give you a post-by-post analysis of why you are on a wild goose chase.

Edit2: Erased crap that was not necessary and was perceived as offensive, not without reason, by Jeydra.

EDIT:

Disclaimer: I've no reason to like or dislike any of this forum users. Don't know them and I'm not interested.

I've learn much about the game in here, mostly saving me time of having to investigate the game mechanics by myself.

When anyone ask help in these forums, if I believe I can contribute with anything I will.

If someone says 2+3=6, I've no grudge against him/her. But if I know the correct answer is 5, then I will point it.

I take no particular pleasure of proving someone wrong as I will not take any particular offense if someone proves me wrong.

In this case I expressed my opinion with the single purpose of showing the OP, or any player that lacks elementalist experience, that fire damage isn't very good in late NM and HM.

cerick · Jan 14, 2009, 04:04 AM // 04:04

This is too funny. I know that I have said my fair share to more that a couple flamers in the past. Its some how more enjoyable just watching it. Unfortunately I do have some things that I must say. Even though I have called people many times on their absolutely pointless flamer remarks, I too will make a pointless post on my observation of flamers.

1) They can’t except that fact that many builds are different but equal in effectiveness. If its not on PVX or in a Sticky guide you must be wrong.

2) Flamers will take more time writing childish responses to answer a question that was never asked, than it would take to confirm what it is they are even talking about. Hence you get a completely ignorant comment from someone who is absolutely sure of his incorrect statement. (This one just happened to me on GWONLINE last week)

3) For PVP builds you can’t even suggest a different build or thought process, because all the flamers assume they will face other players with the exact same cookie cutter builds they use.

4) Flamers can’t seem to remember how the game has both evolved and devolved over the years. I’ll give a couple examples. Back in the day everyone used a sup rune, and if you didn’t you were dirt. Now, if you use one your dirt. Back in the day armor level(AL) was king, now if you don’t max out your health your dirt. Guess what, the core game mechanics haven’t changed people. So in the countless posts arguing who has leet-est rune/insignia combo who was right? The answer is, that one guy out there who as magically predicted the builds of every team he has been in a match with.

I could go on, but I believe my point is made.

Now a final message to all the flamers. Please don’t let common sense, common courtesy, or the not so common facts give you even a second of pause.

Improvavel · Jan 14, 2009, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

EDIT#3: Improvavel and I made peace. Thanks for showing the maturity not to come to blows, I really didn't have much hope when I sent the PM

Sometimes I get a bit carried away, as if on a holy crusade.

Apologies to you and to anyone that dislike uncivilized talk (well some spice is still in the messages, after all, political correct discussions are dull :P)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

4) Flamers can’t seem to remember how the game has both evolved and devolved over the years. I’ll give a couple examples. Back in the day everyone used a sup rune, and if you didn’t you were dirt. Now, if you use one your dirt. Back in the day armor level(AL) was king, now if you don’t max out your health your dirt. Guess what, the core game mechanics haven’t changed people.

Actually they did. But for PvP.

Before you could change pieces of armor in the midst of a GvG (or any PvP). So if you died once, you could swap your sup headpiece for a minor one and not get that much penalty.

In PvE you can use a superior rune in a nice portion of the game without problems, and if you die, swap it.

On the other hand, except in situations you hardly take damage, the increase in damage/healing and what not, is negligible and more health never hurts. Then you have hard mode.

About the armor vs health. If it is armor that is universal and you know that you will almost always meet the req, it can still be quite a hard choice.

Most people will recommend centurion for paras, some sentry for warriors or blessed for elementalists (or at least in both chest and leggings).

On the other hand, a good portion of the damage dealt is armor ignoring, especially in PvP (or in PvE because of [[Save yourselves]).

Posts Merged by Celestial Beaver: Please use the button rather than double posting.

daze · Jan 14, 2009, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

1) They can’t except that fact that many builds are different but equal in effectiveness. If its not on PVX or in a Sticky guide you must be wrong.

This is BS, Discordway is not on a sticky as it should be, but it is by far the best team build ever in the history of stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

2) Flamers will take more time writing childish responses to answer a question that was never asked, than it would take to confirm what it is they are even talking about. Hence you get a completely ignorant comment from someone who is absolutely sure of his incorrect statement. (This one just happened to me on GWONLINE last week)

Nope you are wrong here, because when you use eles in HM you are gimping your team with your puny damage. In fact i believe that when an enemy is above lvl 32 your attacks actually heal it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

3) For PVP builds you can’t even suggest a different build or thought process, because all the flamers assume they will face other players with the exact same cookie cutter builds they use.

Whatever, We all know that my hammer ranger with pet owns all of PvP. And dont even get me started on my 55hp necro or my touch ranger. My builds > yours

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

4) Flamers can’t seem to remember how the game has both evolved and devolved over the years. I’ll give a couple examples. Back in the day everyone used a sup rune, and if you didn’t you were dirt. Now, if you use one your dirt. Back in the day armor level(AL) was king, now if you don’t max out your health your dirt. Guess what, the core game mechanics haven’t changed people. So in the countless posts arguing who has leet-est rune/insignia combo who was right? The answer is, that one guy out there who as magically predicted the builds of every team he has been in a match with.

The game hasn't evolved or devolved, it is the players that have evolved or devolved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

I could go on, but I believe my point is made.

Now a final message to all the flamers. Please don’t let common sense, common courtesy, or the not so common facts give you even a second of pause.

You are stupid and your ideals are laughable, just because armor ignoring damage is better than non armor ignoring damage doesn't mean that non-armor ignoring damage is worse than armor ignoring. And just because fire magic sucks in hard mode doesn't mean that it doesn't suck.

MegaVolti · Jan 14, 2009, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Case is closed only when you provide the screenshots, which you haven't, and I'm not about to believe you until you do.

Just do the numbers. Math isn't really that hard.
The simple math tells you: Cryway does more damage.
If you claim that fire magic is faster, then you have to provide proof.

On top of that it is really completely pointless to argue about the stupid snowman dungeon. Who the hell wants to play it anyway? There is this one and some other dungeon with lots of plants (they also take bonus damage from fire) were damage from fire magic is OK and can nearly compete with other classes. But those two "not better but not thaat bad" areas don't change the fact, that in 99% of GW fire magic is crap for damage.
Oh, fire magic also rocks on the tut islands. There the enemies have less then 60 armor, making fire magic awesome and the armor ignoring Mesmer/Necromancer damage bad. But that doesn't really help to make fire magic viable in "normal" play (meaning: any region you won't blast through within seconds).

On top of that all fire magic spells except for [[searing flames] do pathetic damage, even in normal mode. [[meteor shower]? 40 armor dependent DPS, which is even in NM mostly reduced to about 20-30. It just sucks. Same for all the other spells that deal damage over time. The cooldown and casting time and the fact that monsters run out of the AoE just make them bad.
[[searing flames] is not that pathetic but still is beaten by other classes.
Of cause all those builds will work in NM. You will eventually beat the game using fire magic for damage and with a [[searing flames]-team it is even quite relaxing (simple button smashing). But you'd also beat the game wanding

What do you hope to accomplish here? Nitpick every word I said because you just don't want to acknowledge that fire magic generally is crap? So you find one single place in all of GW were it's not total crap and you think that helps your argument? Seriously ...

Jeydra · Jan 14, 2009, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

Just do the numbers. Math isn't really that hard.
The simple math tells you: Cryway does more damage.
If you claim that fire magic is faster, then you have to provide proof.

Hm ... I don't see you've done any math anywhere. Care to give me a reason why a 2-second recharge Searing Flames that does 106 damage + burning should somehow deal less damage than a 15-second recharge, 100-damage nuke Cry of Pain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

On top of that it is really completely pointless to argue about the stupid snowman dungeon. Who the hell wants to play it anyway? There is this one and some other dungeon with lots of plants (they also take bonus damage from fire) were damage from fire magic is OK and can nearly compete with other classes. But those two "not better but not thaat bad" areas don't change the fact, that in 99% of GW fire magic is crap for damage.
Oh, fire magic also rocks on the tut islands. There the enemies have less then 60 armor, making fire magic awesome and the armor ignoring Mesmer/Necromancer damage bad. But that doesn't really help to make fire magic viable in "normal" play (meaning: any region you won't blast through within seconds).

Allow me to remind you that you made the absolute, all-encompassing, no exceptions claim that Elementalist damage cannot compare with Necromancer or Mesmer damage everywhere. You even stressed that Elementalist damage is simply never comparable. Never. If you don't believe me, I can easily find you the quote. Because of your absolute statement, all I have to do to derail it is to bring up a single counterexample - conveniently, the Snowman dungeon.

I'm 'nitpicking', if you will, because of your absolute statement. Even though you are ostensibly skilled in mathematics, for all intents and purposes you demonstrate a lack of knowledge. Mathematically speaking there is a huge difference between the statement 'all crows are black' and 'almost all crows are black' - and there is a huge difference between saying 'Fire Magic is always useless' and 'Fire Magic is almost always useless'. You made the first statement, not the second. If you had made the second I would not have objected, but you had to make the (much stronger) claim that Fire Magic is always useless to sound impressive, and so I expect you to defend your statement ... or admit you are wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

On top of that all fire magic spells except for Searing Flames
do pathetic damage, even in normal mode. Meteor Shower? 40 armor dependent DPS, which is even in NM mostly reduced to about 20-30. It just sucks. Same for all the other spells that deal damage over time. The cooldown and casting time and the fact that monsters run out of the AoE just make them bad. Searing Flames is not that pathetic but still is beaten by other classes.

Of cause all those builds will work in NM. You will eventually beat the game using fire magic for damage and with a Searing Flames-team it is even quite relaxing (simple button smashing). But you'd also beat the game wanding

So you say. If you're going to claim Fire Magic weak in Normal Mode as well, like I said, top 400 kills in Dragon's Throat without using a Fire Elementalist and I'll believe you.

MegaVolti · Jan 15, 2009, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Allow me to remind you that you made the absolute, all-encompassing, no exceptions claim that Elementalist damage cannot compare with Necromancer or Mesmer damage everywhere. You even stressed that Elementalist damage is simply never comparable. Never. If you don't believe me, I can easily find you the quote. Because of your absolute statement, all I have to do to derail it is to bring up a single counterexample - conveniently, the Snowman dungeon.

I'm 'nitpicking', if you will, because of your absolute statement. Even though you are ostensibly skilled in mathematics, for all intents and purposes you demonstrate a lack of knowledge. Mathematically speaking there is a huge difference between the statement 'all crows are black' and 'almost all crows are black' - and there is a huge difference between saying 'Fire Magic is always useless' and 'Fire Magic is almost always useless'. You made the first statement, not the second. If you had made the second I would not have objected, but you had to make the (much stronger) claim that Fire Magic is always useless to sound impressive, and so I expect you to defend your statement ... or admit you are wrong.

As I already told you of cause there are areas were fire magic rocks. Especially in places with less then 60 armor - the tutorial islands I already mentioned. You can stop trying to look that hard for stuff like the snowman dungeon or the wardens thingy. Tutorial islands prove your nitpicky point as I told you already. Redundant department of redundancy much?

But that doesn't change the very basic fact that fire magic generally sucks and that it is generally a very good thing to get it out of peoples brains that Elementalists are damage dealers. We are talking about some noob here who thinks fire magis is great for damage dealing and wants to play a fire mage for it. Once you realized the basic GW truth "fire = bad damage" you can still go through the game and find the very, very few spots were they are not that bad.

By the way, even in areas were fire damage doesn't suck the Elementalist is still awesome as supporter. Following the general rule: "Never ever play the Elementalist as DD" will result in a huge improvement of efficiency in GW.

Jeydra · Jan 15, 2009, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Are you retracting your statement that:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

2. Elementalists are no damage dealers in hard mode. Never. Never ever. Elementalist damage is always armor dependent and HM enemies have tons and tons of armor. The damage output simply sucks and there is no build that can even remotely compete with the damage output of Necromancers, Mesmers or any physicals.

And replacing it with a more moderate version? If you are, then we're pretty much done.

PS: I wasn't aware that monsters in Ascalon / Istan / Shing Jea had below AL60 in HM, which is what your original point claims: hard mode. So citing those areas don't invalidate your claim, do they?

Improvavel · Jan 15, 2009, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

And replacing it with a more moderate version? If you are, then we're pretty much done.

I think Volti and I are on the same page - that is better overstate that the elementalists aren't good damage dealers (in late nm and HM) than the opposite.

I also think that when Volti says that elementalist are "never. Never ever." damage dealers in hm, he means in normal circumstances.

I also believe that there is no need for that degree of precision in these forums, although I might be wrong. They aren't my forums.

"Minion masters are good, they provide meat shield and this and that. Ah, except when there aren't bodies, or if the enemy uses to much AoE, or if the enemy use bodies, etc etc".

I guess that would make posting a bit less fun.

MegaVolti · Jan 16, 2009, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Are you retracting your statement that:

And replacing it with a more moderate version? If you are, then we're pretty much done.

PS: I wasn't aware that monsters in Ascalon / Istan / Shing Jea had below AL60 in HM, which is what your original point claims: hard mode. So citing those areas don't invalidate your claim, do they?

I thought when vanquishig the tutorial islands I saw a few enemies below lvl 20, which would mean that they have less then 60 armor. I now checked and they all seem to be at least lvl 22. Maybe I just got confused there. Does anybody know for sure?

As for Wardens and the Snowman dungeon: The OP clearly stated that he is talking about Nightfall here. So is there any place in NF were fire magic does good damage in HM? No? Good, we have that settled then.

But since it's fun:

The Wardens have more then 60 armor, making SF inferior to other builds.

As for the snowman dungeon: It is a gimmick level and as such probably the only place in the whole of GW were fire magic damage is about even with other possibilities in HM. AP-CoP still does a little more damage: By Urals Hammer is permanently up with that build, which gives every CoP 125 damage (more then SF). AP makes them spammable just like SF.
That's only raw damage output of cause. As I said numerous times before: SF is a lot easier to play. And when stuff dies instantly, it doesn't really matter if it was 100, 106 or 125 damage that killed it.
So while being not bad in the snowman dungeon (which is not in Nightfall, so it isn't relevant here), fire magic is still not superior anywhere in GW (except maybe for the tut islands, if anyone knows the details there

). So the rule "never play Ele DD in HM" is a good one, even outside of Nightfall.

Rodentofdoom · Jan 17, 2009, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Well I've managed to complete all 3 campaign's & the expansion using an E/Mo build using Fire, Energy Storage & Protection. Play the game how you WANT to play it, it is afterall only a game your playing to have fun.

Not all fire skills cause burning, many just cause pure damge so they quite easily affect Destroyers from EoTN, but in factions you won't have that much of a problem with destroyers.

As for the styles of magery
Air is good in HM as many of it's spells get a 25% armour penetration, mitigating somewhat the boost mobs recieve in HM.
Fire gives moderate damage, and the burning condition (a strong degen) usually to several targets at once.
Earth gives good support through wards and many of its effects cause knock-downs (warriors have several skills that take advantage of prone targets)
Water is another support focused area, the majority of spells from water snare mobs reducing thier run speed (which makes it easier for your ranged team-mates to stay ranged)

Try a build based around each skill group, as you unlock more skills see if/how they can be used to improve your basic starter build, gwwiki gives pretty good intel on most missions/explorable area's so use that info to help you decide which of your 4 builds would best suit that particular run.

For equipment you'll eventually be looking at 4 head-pieces (fire, earth, air & water) 3 can be safely kept in storage (to free a little inventory space) each head-piece should have a 3pt rune (2 if you prefer the smaller health hit), you shouldnt really need more than a +1 Energy Storage Rune, then pad out with Vitae's
With Insignia's i prefer the common (usuable by all) one's, Survivor's, Stalwart & Blessed are all reasonable choices (Elementalist Insignia's only seem useful in Ele V Ele duels to me ..)

Collector Weapons are a good cheap alternative to over-hyped & over-priced green/golds
All are required 'Attribute' of 9
Staffs are Energy +10, Damage 11-22; ; and provides 'HSR of spells (20%)'. All staffs can accept both prefix and suffix weapon upgrades.
Wands are Damage 11-22
Focus items are Energy +12 and will not accept any upgrades unless they have an empty Inscription slot. If they do, they will only accept an Inscription. (C&P from wiki)

however buying those upgrades for them isn't always cheap

[edit]
As for 2nd Profession choices any of the caster options (Monk, Mesmer, Necromancer & Ritualist) provide reasonable to good synergy with the Elementalist.
Out of the Melee options Assassin is probably the better choice though i have seen good E/W Earth builds before.

As an addition to the above re Fire Ele's it is possible to use thier AoE spells defensively due to the AI's tendancy to scatter whilst within thier effects, stand next to your monk's to make this more effective.
[/edit]

MegaVolti · Jan 17, 2009, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Air damage is also quite bad (in NM as well as HM). Yes, the 25% armor penetration are nice but since almost all spells only hit a single target and you have casting time and cooldown to deal with, the overall DPS is quite low. Every Paragon or Ranger will easily beat you in DPS.
The main reason why air magic is an awesome attribute line is [[blinding surge]. Blinding everything is really good. It's basically just like the earth line: Provide awesome support while dealing moderate amounts of damage.

The thing about the normal fire spells is that they cause exactly the same damage as earth magic spells. And that's why they suck: They do nothing but damage (and sometimes inflict burning) while earth magic does the same damage and useful stuff on top of that (like knockdown or blindness).

By the way, destroyers can be hit by the normal fire magic spells but they have a huge armor boost against fire. The 100 dmg fire spell will hit for like 10 damage in HM, it's quite ridiculous. But we are talking about NF here so this isn't really an issue

Jeydra · Jan 18, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

As for Wardens and the Snowman dungeon: The OP clearly stated that he is talking about Nightfall here. So is there any place in NF were fire magic does good damage in HM? No? Good, we have that settled then.

OP clearly stated he's talking about Nightfall, but you stated just as clearly that you were talking about the whole Guild Wars universe. So is there any place in the whole of Guild Wars where Fire Magic does good damage in HM? Yes? Good, we have that settled then.

By the way I'm not getting into a cryway vs. (insert Fire build) Snowman dungeon run unless you're serious enough to post screenshots. Also by the way, Meteor Shower is in the Fire line and it does KD. Fire causes more damage than Earth, that much should be obvious. In return, Earth magic spells have a lot more other effects like knockdown, blind, etc.

@Improvavel - I prefer 'minion masters are good most of the time', which would cover all those areas.