Curse

Improvavel · Jan 11, 2009, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

If you are a fresh E/N in Nightfall then I would really recommend trying out the joys of Earth Magic which, unlike fire, will serve you well through the game and in Hard Mode as well. Start with one of the best skills in game, Enfeebling Blood, then add Earth Attunement, Glowstone, Stoning, Sandstorm as elite, possibly a ward of your choice and some additional utility like Rip Enchantment and you'll have a great all around character providing offense and defense at the same time

And [[necrosis] does good single target damage too

Jeydra · Jan 12, 2009, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Lol @ MegaVolti's blanket statements, Elementalist DPSers roll through Snowman HM like knife through butter...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Elementalist damage in NM is impressive, and probably superior to any other kind of damage. You can still play for damage in HM, although you can't quite use mostly Elementalist skills (probably go Assassin's Promise based builds utilizing the Norn Shouts YMLAD! and Finish Him!). Other options for Elementalists in HM include the much-cited Earth Elementalist above, and builds based around Ether Renewal. See #9 for builds, those are quite similar to those I run.

Anyway ...

Secondaries are freely changable in Guild Wars. You change secondaries whenever you need to - for example, if you're doing Arachni's Haunt with all the Rangers about, you might change your secondary to Warrior, spec in Tactics and bring Shield's Up, or perhaps spec in Protection Prayers and bring Aegis. Myself, I find the most common Elementalist secondaries I use to be Assassin (because Assassin's Promise is so strong in PvE) and Monk (afore-mentioned Aegis is universally useful, as well as E/Mo healer-based builds). Mesmer is a distant third, offering Arcane Echo, Auspicious Incantation and Cry of Pain. But in all cases the choice of secondary is yours to make and depends on what your party needs / what area your team is facing.

Equipment - the ideal equipment include:

Headpieces with your chosen rune for every element (I use Superiors for the different Elements, minor Energy Storage rune when I'm playing to my secondary)
A staff with +20% enchant and 40% HCT for every element including Energy Storage
40/40 sets for every element

You probably don't need all these, especially since they take up a lot of space in your inventory. Priority is on the the 40/40 sets and the headpiece. Myself, I carry a +20% enchantment Spear and pair that with whatever focus (from the 40/40 set) for the element I'm using.

You don't have to buy greens to get the mods. If I'm not mistaken, all my 40/40 sets are blue or gold.

daze · Jan 12, 2009, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Lol @ MegaVolti's blanket statements, Elementalist DPSers roll through Snowman HM like knife through butter...

ya, there are still lots of places where eles can deal high amounts of damage. But the bandwagon seems to be anti-ele for DPS so lets all hop on.

personally i found that fire magic is enough to clear any area, because i already had legendary guardian was halfway through legendary vanquisher and already cleared DoA, FoW and UW with my fire ele before i joined GW Guru and learned how worthless fire eles are. So just take everybody's advice with a grain of salt (even mine).

This is the build that i used until i was flamed more than any fire ele could keep up with.
[elemental [email protected]][fire [email protected]][flame djinns [email protected]][mystic [email protected]][glowing [email protected]][incendiary [email protected]][rodgorts [email protected]] and i would end in either [meteor [email protected]] or [liquid [email protected]]

I always found that [incendiary bonds][rodgorts invocation] made for a nice little AoE spike because the damage would all occur at once. But this is back when [flame djinns haste] was 33% and [mystic regeneration] had no cap and lasted 20 seconds.

I used to love it especially in Alliance battles because i could wipe out any shrine all by myself.

Merlin the Honest · Jan 12, 2009, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Ok.

So all in all.

The general advice is, that i should change to earth elementalist?

Also i dont have any of the other campaigns, so that means i can only capture elite skills that are in nightfall right?

daze · Jan 12, 2009, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin the Honest

Ok.

So all in all.

The general advice is, that i should change to earth elementalist?

Also i dont have any of the other campaigns, so that means i can only capture elite skills that are in nightfall right?

Well these are all the skills you have to choose from, really not much of a variety. Id highly recommend that you get more expansions ASAMFP.

[[aftershock]
[[armor of earth]
[[earth attunement]
[[ebon hawk]
[[glowstone]
[[obsidian flame]
[[obsidian flesh]
[[sandstorm]
[[stone daggers]
[[stone sheath]
[[stone striker]
[[stoneflesh aura]
[[stoning]
[[ward against foes]
[[ward against melee]

at least you can make a tank build (not too useful for doing most of nightfall)
[earth attunement][stone striker][mantra of earth][obsidian flesh][stoneflesh aura][armor of earth][aura of restoration][no skill]

tmakinen · Jan 12, 2009, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin the Honest

The general advice is, that i should change to earth elementalist?

It very much depends on what are your near and long term goals. If you are not going to invest into the other campaigns nor interested in title hunting once you have played through NF then Fire Magic is completely adequate and some amount of fun can be had by mindlessly spamming Searing Flames all over the place. If, however, you intend to continue your adventures beyond NF and Normal Mode, then learning good practises from the get-go will save you a lot of frustration and unlearning later on, and the best way to do that is to switch to Earth Magic with a build along the lines I pointed out (I specifically chose only core and NF skills). Enfeebling Blood has a natural synergy with Earth Magic so if you are an E/N then that is the obvious choice to start with.

As pointed out by Daze, Earth Magic in NF is a bit limited so if you decide to buy other campaigns as well you'll get access to many more choices. Especially concerning Earth Magic I would consider acquiring GW:Factions a must.

daze · Jan 12, 2009, 11:57 AM // 11:57

here is one that may be fun for you and its totally nightfall.
[master of magic][gole][chilling winds][elemental flame][deep freeze][steam][slippery ground][aftershock]

[[master of magic] description has changed::: Elite Enchantment Spell. For 1...49 seconds, all of your elemental attributes are set to 12 and you gain +0...2 Energy regeneration. This enchantment ends if you use a non-elementalist skill.

cataphract · Jan 12, 2009, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

If you are a fresh E/N in Nightfall then I would really recommend trying out the joys of Earth Magic which, unlike fire, will serve you well through the game and in Hard Mode as well. Start with one of the best skills in game, Enfeebling Blood, then add Earth Attunement, Glowstone, Stoning, Sandstorm as elite, possibly a ward of your choice and some additional utility like Rip Enchantment and you'll have a great all around character providing offense and defense at the same time

I absolutely love knockdown.

Also, you can try going Air with something like this [Shock Arrow][Enervating Charge][Lightning Orb][GoLE][Thunderclap][Blinding Flash][Epidemic][Air Attunement] and merrily spread conditions. If you want more damage, drop [Thunderclap] and take [Invoke Lightning].

pumpkin pie · Jan 12, 2009, 12:15 PM // 12:15

you won't be able to run any of the suggested skill bar with only Nightfall, I am very sorry to have to tell you that.

MegaVolti · Jan 12, 2009, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Lol @ MegaVolti's blanket statements, Elementalist DPSers roll through Snowman HM like knife through butter...

And still other classes can do the job better.
The problem with fire magic is that it has to compete with stuff like Cryways or even Spliter/Barrage teams. Tons and tons of armor ignoring damage just beat fire magic.

But I admit, yes, you can beat most stuff in HM using fire magic. It is just less efficient then other builds.

As for NF-only: If you do not plan on buying other campaigns (they should be quite cheap these days), going with [[searing flames] and having all your heroes using it, too, will get you quite far.

In GW people change builds very often. It is quite common to tweak a build for every area you enter. On my Elementalist I rarely play one element for more then 2 hours. Mostly I start with earth and when I get bored I switch to air. For PvP I switch to water and then most of the time back to earth for some more PvE stuff

When vanquishing with my guild I even use fire sometimes because spamming [[searing flames] is way easier then coordinating a Cryway team. It does less damage and takes longer but I can eat/drink while playing and it is generally very relaxing

My point is: There is no need to stick to one elemental line. Since you can change your attribute points in every outpost you can also use any line whenever you want.

I'd recommend getting one good build for every line (don't know any good NF-only builds tho) and just try them out.
With just NF skills, the [[searing flame] route might actually be a good one.

Cebe · Jan 12, 2009, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin the Honest

Also i dont have any of the other campaigns, so that means i can only capture elite skills that are in nightfall right?

Correct, but if you decide to go down the earth route, you're quite well looked after in Nightfall in that respect.

It's probably possible to tweak one of my favourite Earth builds to turn it Nightfall-Only:

[build prof=E/N name="Enfeebling Earth" box earth=12+1+1 energy=9+1 curses=9][Earth Attunement][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Ward Against Melee (PvE)][Sandstorm][Enfeebling Blood (PvE)][Glowstone][Stoning][No Skill][/build]

Use the final skill for [[Resurrection Signet], [[Rip Enchantment], [[Obsidian Flame], [[Ward Against Foes]. Ward Against Foes might work well with Sandstorm since if the foes run out of the Sandstorm too soon it's a bit wasted.

If you wish to continue down the Fire Magic line, check here, section 2c.

Hope this helped a little.

cataphract · Jan 12, 2009, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

you won't be able to run any of the suggested skill bar with only Nightfall, I am very sorry to have to tell you that.

Serve me right for not reading the OP.

Improvavel · Jan 12, 2009, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Correct, but if you decide to go down the earth route, you're quite well looked after in Nightfall in that respect.

It's probably possible to tweak one of my favourite Earth builds to turn it Nightfall-Only:

[build prof=E/N name="Enfeebling Earth" box earth=12+1+1 energy=9+1 curses=9][Earth Attunement][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Ward Against Melee (PvE)][Sandstorm][Enfeebling Blood (PvE)][Glowstone][Stoning][No Skill][/build]

Use the final skill for [[Resurrection Signet], [[Rip Enchantment], [[Obsidian Flame], [[Ward Against Foes]. Ward Against Foes might work well with Sandstorm since if the foes run out of the Sandstorm too soon it's a bit wasted.

If you wish to continue down the Fire Magic line, check here, section 2c.

Hope this helped a little.

I don't know why people never suggest [[necrosis] (after all is a non-elite discord

). You already have weakness spam. It is in my opinion better than running obsidian flame.

Jeydra · Jan 12, 2009, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

ya, there are still lots of places where eles can deal high amounts of damage. But the bandwagon seems to be anti-ele for DPS so lets all hop on.

Very, the bandwagon goes 'let's bash Fire Elementalists because all the n00bs use Fire and we're not n00bs so we must have something different', leading to posts that bash Fire Elementalists in NM even though they're so effective there.

But anyway your build has the obvious problem that with dual attunements, you don't need Glowing Gaze. Also since Elemental Attunement is now tied to Energy Storage, running Mystic Regen weakens Elemental Attunement's duration, and finally in PvP Incendiary Bonds is a dead giveaway of who you are hitting. But it's your choice and your build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

And still other classes can do the job better.
The problem with fire magic is that it has to compete with stuff like Cryways or even Spliter/Barrage teams. Tons and tons of armor ignoring damage just beat fire magic.

It sure does doesn't it? Prove it - post some screenshots (with times) of you doing Snowman HM without using Fire Elementalists, although I should probably tell you first that Fire spells hit the snowmen at listed damage (that's 106-damage @ 16 Fire from Searing Flames). If you can consistently do it faster I'm open to changing my mind, although frankly I can't see how you hope to be more efficient than massing Fire Elementalists.

Btw Cry of Pain is stupidly overpowered and needs a nerf, nice of you to bring it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin the Honest

Ok.

So all in all.

The general advice is, that i should change to earth elementalist?

The elements you want and use change, and there's no hard and fast element to use. Personally I use Air most, followed by Energy Storage (that means Ether-Renewal based Elementalist healers), then Fire, then Water and finally Earth - but that's partly personal preference and depends greatly on what areas you're doing as well. Fire damage is not going to help you clear Ruby Djinn but Water will, and so on and so forth.

Fril Estelin · Jan 12, 2009, 11:47 PM // 23:47

The best thing for you is to try the four elements, discover how each have a particular favor. In NM, it doesn't make a huge difference, but it does in HM (you'll see when you'll be there). Ele were meant to be support, i.e. not at the core of the action, so after a while, don't be afraid if you make "others" (heroes henchmen) charge while you're aggravating damage and protecting.

I started as water ele, loved it (although I discovered later that it's not as powerful as it seems), then fire-nuked (try it in Alliance Battle if one day you decide to buy Factions), then HM taught me to master Air for armor-penetration/combos and Earth for things like warding/tanking.

And don't forget the freebies in NF:
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Treasure

If you're after a particular green, you may want to try one of these builds:
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:E/A_Solo_Green_Farmer
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:E/Mo_330_Elementalist
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:E/Rt_VwK_Earth

Improvavel · Jan 13, 2009, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

It sure does doesn't it? Prove it - post some screenshots (with times) of you doing Snowman HM without using Fire Elementalists, although I should probably tell you first that Fire spells hit the snowmen at listed damage (that's 106-damage @ 16 Fire from Searing Flames). If you can consistently do it faster I'm open to changing my mind, although frankly I can't see how you hope to be more efficient than massing Fire Elementalists.

Btw Cry of Pain is stupidly overpowered and needs a nerf, nice of you to bring it up.

I will counterpoint your HM Snowman with anything with Destroyers. And can be NM.

Do I get a cookie for proving fire eles suck in NM?

Elementalist damage is good up to level 26 enemies. Once they are level 26 and higher, your ele skills better do something else other than only damage (and a level 20 ranger only takes 53 damage from that searing flames and 61 against a lvl 20 warrior with a shield).

And will have to run that HM snowman with some MS/DB, Scythe based chars and earth shakers with splinters.

MasterSasori · Jan 13, 2009, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin the Honest

Ok.

So all in all.

The general advice is, that i should change to earth elementalist?

Also i dont have any of the other campaigns, so that means i can only capture elite skills that are in nightfall right?

Earth ele is the best in pve, but I recommend that you try all types out sooner or later.

It's not fun playing E eles all the time.

daze · Jan 13, 2009, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Very, the bandwagon goes 'let's bash Fire Elementalists because all the n00bs use Fire and we're not n00bs so we must have something different', leading to posts that bash Fire Elementalists in NM even though they're so effective there.

But anyway your build has the obvious problem that with dual attunements, you don't need Glowing Gaze. Also since Elemental Attunement is now tied to Energy Storage, running Mystic Regen weakens Elemental Attunement's duration, and finally in PvP Incendiary Bonds is a dead giveaway of who you are hitting. But it's your choice and your build.

[[glowing [email protected]] is just a backup for if an enchantment happens to get stripped
[[elemental [email protected]] at 11 attribute points points still lasts longer than the 45 second recharge so duration has no impact.
[[incendiary [email protected]] has 3 second delay before the hit which is really not enough time to move out of the way or remove. Remember that im talking about Alliance battles here not GvG. Most people in AB like to all gather up into one giant mob and bottleneck themselves on a bridge or something. A perfect time to open up with [meteor [email protected]] to hold them in place then [incendiary [email protected]][rodgorts [email protected]] for a nice 200-300 point AoE damage spike depending if a meteor hits at the same time as the spike.

I must have used that build to go from rank 1 lux to rank 5 so lets say that i am very familiar with its success rate. Honestly id say that 9 times out of 10 it works great against humans, and 99 times out of 100 it works perfectly against shrine NPCs. The only shrine NPCs that are even mildly challenging are the warrior NPCs, but all i have to do to dispatch them is make sure my enchantments are on and run up in the middle of them and cast [meteor shower][incendiary bonds][rodgorts invocation][flame djinns haste][rodgorts invocation] to wipe all three of them.

warrior running · Jan 13, 2009, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Merlin pm me ingame at warrior running I'll help u

MegaVolti · Jan 13, 2009, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

It sure does doesn't it? Prove it - post some screenshots (with times) of you doing Snowman HM without using Fire Elementalists, although I should probably tell you first that Fire spells hit the snowmen at listed damage (that's 106-damage @ 16 Fire from Searing Flames). If you can consistently do it faster I'm open to changing my mind, although frankly I can't see how you hope to be more efficient than massing Fire Elementalists.

Yea right, because I'll start doing speedruns of that one dungeon. Cry of Pain hits just as hard. Case closed.

And you found a single place in GW were [[searing flames] is not completely and utterly inferior to other builds but just a little bit worse (try the AP-CoP build found in the Mesmer forum for example - works great in the snowman dungeon). Great for you! Nobody wants to play the snowman dungeon all day. So fire magic still sucks.

I wrote already that [[searing flames] builds are easy and relaxing to play. That's what makes them viable.