Curse

PrimevalGoddess · Jan 29, 2009, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Greetings to everyone.

I've been playing GW for three years (on-and-off, though mostly pretty consistent) and play also with my spouse, and there are three different Fire builds I'm torn between. So, if you're a "build nerd" like me (lol) and like creating your own solid builds and comparing them, please take the time to read and hopefully I can get a good discussion going here.

In terms of two separate issues - immediate dmg as well as overall dmg - which build(s) do you think fair the best (I'll give my feedback/results at the end)?

- Searing Flames nuker:
[Searing Flames] [Rodgort's Invocation] [Fireball] [Immolate] [Searing Heat] [Arcane Echo] [Fire Attunement] [Aura of Restoration]
(last two on all my fire builds, and work great for me)

- Savannah Heat heat build as follows:
[Immolate] [Smoldering Embers] [Searing Heat] [Rodgort's Invocation] [Savannah Heat] [Mark of Rodgort] [Aura of Restoration] [Fire Attunement]

- An "energy storage" type build:
[Elemental Attunement] [Fire Attunement] [Aura of Restoration] [Rodgort's Invocation] [Searing Heat] [Fireball] [Smoldering Embers] [Immolate]

This is an interesting build that has actually allowed me to, not only cast continuously and never run out of energy (hence allowing constant dmg) therefore also keeps me continually healed as long as I'm casting.

Personally, I've had an excellent experience with all, but in different ways.

Now, Mark of Rodgort [Mark of Rodgort] is an excellent spell, as it causes burning for any type of fire spell cast that does not cause burning, and the 6 pips of health per second degen of burning, on top of other dmg being dealt, I'm finding to be an excellent resource.

However, the catch is that, except on the Savannah Heat [Savannah Heat] build, it's a little hard to fit into other builds without sacrificing other dmg dealing spells, due to the other builds using either Arcane Echo [Arcane Echo] or Elemental Attunement [Elemental Attunement] which aren't dmg dealing spells.

- With the first build, SFnuker, it's devastating due to the AoE dmg, including the burning it causes (which does the highest degen, at 6 pips of health per second).

- With the second build, Savannah Heat, it's a little more tricky, as you have to time/project where/when enemies will be before you cast. However, even though the dmg is cumulative and takes five seconds, I've seen it reach up to 115 on the final hit, and that's after all the previous dmg it's done (with is exponential over those five seconds) plus dmg from other spells.

- With the third build, which is basically like an energy storage type build, I never run out of energy, literally, and am able to continue casting without hesitation, therefore continually dish out dmg with spell after spell.

Of course, everything is personal preference, and as long as your build isn't all mish-moshed, all three seem to have their advantages.

But I'm curious as to what others think would be perhaps the most effective in terms of both immediate, as well as overall the most cumulative damage.

I've run all three, back-to-back, and I have to tell you, that all three builds are pretty much like walking nuclear nightmares, lol

. The trickiest is perhaps the Savannah Heat build, but if you have quick reactions (which I do) and can time thinks right, it's devastating.

- It's just difficult to tell which, if any, is actually putting out more damage either faster and/or overall.

I know that's my judgment to make, since I'm running the builds, but was just curious about the damage factor and the experienced opinions of others.

BTW, if it says anything (and makes the choice all the harder, heh) all of these builds are also fantastic in PvP (such as Fort Aspenwood) and I've managed to whack Seige Turles and surrounding enemies completely on my own with all three, and turn around to face other opponents.

In PvE, the dmg by all three is devastating.

However... and this has been rather amazing... with the SF [Searing Flames] nuker build, between the dmg output and speed of it, I can actually go toe-to-toe with high-health warriors and assassins and win, and I've done it many times. Keep casting the echoed SF, and the dmg continues being dished-out, while healing me at the same time, with the occasional Rodgort's thrown in for good luck, heh. I was actually shocked at being able to go toe-to-toe with a strong melee char and win. Sometimes it takes a good long fight (which is fun) but in the end, I've won many of them, as long as I was prepared.

- Of course, I could always just switch out ele's when in the mood for something different between these builds, but which of these would you think would most likely cause - 1) fastest dmg at high lvls and - 2) most dmg overall?

My spouse is now running the "energy build" I've shown above, while I'm running the Savannah Heat build at the same time to compare, and though my spouse never runs out of energy, I seem to do more dmg faster when timed right. Though my spouse can keep it going continually due to the energy return from Elemental Attunement.

Of course, my Searing Flames build is like a walking nuke, and I'm not sure anything quite tops that, between the burning degen dmg it causes, on top of the normal dmg (which is high) it causes when cast on burning enemies.

Anyway, just an interesting (for me, anyway) comparison I was curious as to about what others thought.

Either way, with my experience with all three of these builds, I'd recommend all three to anyone, as I've personally had great success in every area/aspect of GW in every campaign with all three.

GW is sort of a big "release" for fun an relaxation after a long day of work, and at the age of 34, I need that, so I get into it quite a bit

Cheers, everyone

...and love the forums!

Tyla · Jan 29, 2009, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Just looks like a couple throw all the damage skills you possibly can on a Fire bar to me.

I'm curious as to why you have Rodgorts' on an SF bar, though.

Improvavel · Jan 29, 2009, 10:19 PM // 22:19

They will do for normal mode. Start to do late normal mode and HM and they are bad.

Saraneth · Jan 29, 2009, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrimevalGoddess

In PvE, the dmg by all three is devastating.

Elementalists are weak in upper-lvl pve 'cause of all the high armored junk that's running around. Might want to look into getting some pve skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrimevalGoddess

I've managed to whack Seige Turles and surrounding enemies completely on my own with all three, and turn around to face other opponents.

The turtle and lux wars are npcs; it doesn't take much to bring them down.

legacyofkain85 · Jan 29, 2009, 10:50 PM // 22:50

if u have a skill such as sf u dont need,[immolate],[fireball],[rodgort's invocation] in that build,[arcane echo] is a bit overkill to imo,i would definetly add [glyph of lesser energy] and[glowing gaze] to that build cause it lacks energy management [fire attunement] isn't enough when u spam [searing flames].U can also add[mark of rodgort]for constant burning and dmg.
between those 3 builds imo either focus on [searing flames] or [savannah heat] imo,cause [elemental attunement]isn't that great especially with the amount of enchant removal some areas have,if u want to have great energy management use[mind blast] and run a dmg/support build

Karate Jesus · Jan 30, 2009, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Just looks like a couple throw all the damage skills you possibly can on a Fire bar to me.

I'm curious as to why you have Rodgorts' on an SF bar, though.

He wants to run out of energy?

wind fire and ice · Jan 30, 2009, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Just looks like a couple throw all the damage skills you possibly can on a Fire bar to me.

I'm curious as to why you have Rodgorts' on an SF bar, though.

Because having energy is for noobs.

and OP,your builds are fine for NM..but if wanting to do high-end areas or any thing in HM you shouldnt use fire..

skills like [Unsteady Ground] and [Blinding Surge] are what you want to use in HM.

iVendetta · Jan 30, 2009, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Is the amount of energy gain stacking? ([Elemental Attunement] + [Fire Attunement], so 80% energy return?)

legacyofkain85 · Jan 30, 2009, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by iVendetta

Is the amount of energy gain stacking? ([Elemental Attunement] + [Fire Attunement], so 80% energy return?)

yes they do stack

Daft Shifty · Jan 30, 2009, 04:09 AM // 04:09

[mind blast] says hi

daze · Jan 30, 2009, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrimevalGoddess

- Searing Flames nuker:
[Searing Flames] [Rodgort's Invocation] [Fireball] [Immolate] [Searing Heat] [Arcane Echo] [Fire Attunement] [Aura of Restoration]
(last two on all my fire builds, and work great for me)

- Savannah Heat heat build as follows:
[Immolate] [Smoldering Embers] [Searing Heat] [Rodgort's Invocation] [Savannah Heat] [Mark of Rodgort] [Aura of Restoration] [Fire Attunement]

- An "energy storage" type build:
[Elemental Attunement] [Fire Attunement] [Aura of Restoration] [Rodgort's Invocation] [Searing Heat] [Fireball] [Smoldering Embers] [Immolate]

What i like to do sometimes is run my build build with [mindbender][arcane mimicry][fire attunement][arcane echo][searing flames][glowing gaze]in it. Then i add a hero with [elemental attunement][water attunement][deep freeze][maelstrom][steam]

[[arcane mimicry] is meant to mimic the heroes [[elemental attunement] which will make my bar look like this
[mindbender][elemental attunement][fire attunement][searing flames][searing flames][glowing gaze] = Rapid fire [[searing flames]

Bugman103192 · Jan 30, 2009, 06:23 AM // 06:23

No PvE skills! GASP. lol

Cebe · Jan 30, 2009, 09:36 AM // 09:36

PrimevalGoddess,

As comprehensive as your post was I have to agree with the following:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Just looks like a couple throw all the damage skills you possibly can on a Fire bar to me.

It's not how many Fire Spells you fit on a bar, it's how you use them. Your energy must really suffer with some of those builds. Take Searing Flames for instance. You have Fire Attunement as the only form of Energy Management, then Searing Flames and Rodgort's Invocation must be a real drain on your energy. Most Searing Flames builds use [Fire Attunement][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Searing Flames][Glowing Gaze], because SF alone is such a drain on your energy.

Aura of Restoration is a bit of a waste in your builds. Yes, it heals you, but so does your Monks / Rits.

The best build you have there is the Elemental Attunement build. The energy management is decent, although it could do with less Aura of Restoration and more 3rd attribute support skills. Another skill to consider with that is [[Ether Renewal (PvE)] (in PvE only) instead of Elemental Attunement. Not only does it give you "more pew-pew", but it helps you spam non-elementalist skills also.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugman103192

No PvE skills! GASP. lol

You don't need PvE skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrimevalGoddess

I can actually go toe-to-toe with high-health warriors and assassins and win, and I've done it many times.

Guild Wars isn't a 1v1 game; keep that in mind. Proving yourself against another character doesn't mean anything other than they didn't have the right counter. W/E, or A/E with [[Frigid Armor] > Your SF.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrimevalGoddess

GW is sort of a big "release" for fun an relaxation after a long day of work, and at the age of 34, I need that, so I get into it quite a bit

It's refreshing to see someone with such enthusiasm for a change. Whilst your builds are generally considered "not perfect" or "not optimal", they are not the "worst" I've ever seen. Try not to be disheartened by some of the replies you get - just learn, adapt, and have fun.

MegaVolti · Jan 30, 2009, 10:45 AM // 10:45

All three builds totally and utterly suck. The first sucks the least but it still sucks.

Elementalists damage in PvE hard mode is generally pathetic. Build 2 and 3 will even deal pathetic damage in normal mode, auto attacking Warriors will deal nearly as much damage as you. Big shiny numbers are nice but if you only get them once every 5 seconds the average DPS is aweful.

The Searing Flames build will do in normal mode. It still is far from good since you lack any PvE only skills which could make it a lot more powerful. Try [[mindbender], [[pain inverter], [[by urals hammer].

Since you are not using any PvE skills those builds could be meant for PvP (which is the only excuse to not bring PvE only skills

). But then they still suck as do most fire build in PvP.

My advice:
Go with earth magic for PvE and water magic for PvP.
Nice PvP water bars can be built around this:
[water attunement][shatterstone][glyph of immolation][steam][blurred vision] + whatever
For PvE earth magic you can use:
[earth attunement][unsteady ground][eruption][churning earth][ward against melee] + PvE imba stuff
The main point here is knockdown and blindness, not the damage. Support is far more useful.

If it absolutely has to be fire magic then use some PvE only skills in your first build. Or use an AP nuke:

[assassin's promise][liquid flame][glyph of sacrifice][meteor shower][finish him] + whatever

But be aware that Mesmers/Necromancers will do far more damage then you could ever hope to get. Elementalists are just no damage dealers in Guild Wars. They are support characters.

BrettM · Jan 30, 2009, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

Elementalists are just no damage dealers in Guild Wars. They are support characters.

Precisely! That is why you will never, ever see a solo farming build for an ele. If they go out by themselves they're just dead meat, because there is absolutely no way they can damage a group of high-level foes in HM. What could a poor ele possibly do in that case? Support them to death? lol.

Commander Ryker · Jan 30, 2009, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

Elementalists are just no damage dealers in Guild Wars. They are support characters.

Mesmers as damage dealers are you kidding me? Did you just start playing yesterday? Mesmers disable, mesmers interrupt but mesmers do not deal damage. Ele + no damage = you're doing it wrong.

zelgadissan · Jan 30, 2009, 02:48 PM // 14:48

I should preface this with in Hard Mode, I agree with MegaVolti. Enemies have massive amounts of armor against elemental damage, but they take straight damage from Cry of Pain, Backfire, Empathy, Visions of Regret, etc. Spamming fire in HM is mostly a waste of time when you could at least be doing something productive like knockdown with Unsteady or massive anti-melee like Blinding Surge.

Now in NM, things stop attacking/casting so fast, less armor against elements, eles are far more damaging than a mesmer. But this is quite offtopic.

As for my input, you can basically just reread Celestial Beaver's post. Third build is by far the best, Aura of Restoration is a waste in anything that's not an Ether Renewal build, etc.

Improvavel · Jan 30, 2009, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Precisely! That is why you will never, ever see a solo farming build for an ele. If they go out by themselves they're just dead meat, because there is absolutely no way they can damage a group of high-level foes in HM. What could a poor ele possibly do in that case? Support them to death? lol.

Yeap. Solo for the win.

My monk can kill solo so monks are clearly damage dealers.

My warrior can survive solo, so they are clearly healers.

MasterSasori · Jan 30, 2009, 07:01 PM // 19:01

*Ahem [skill]mind blast[/skill] Ahem

SF is great in NM, but sucks in HM. So does SH. TBH, Eles just suck in HM in terms of damage. My advice is to use MB and just screw around with stuff such as Gale, Blinding Flash or use MB to power other skills from other professions /PvE skills.

MegaVolti · Feb 01, 2009, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Ryker

Mesmers as damage dealers are you kidding me? Did you just start playing yesterday? Mesmers disable, mesmers interrupt but mesmers do not deal damage. Ele + no damage = you're doing it wrong.

Have you ever heard of [[cry of pain]? Cryway? No, Mesmers are no damage dealers! Obviously not!
This is PvE of cause. PvP is different, interrupts to matter there and it doesn't have CoP. But in HM PvE play Mesmers will do a lot more damage then any Elementalist could ever hope to get.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Precisely! That is why you will never, ever see a solo farming build for an ele. If they go out by themselves they're just dead meat, because there is absolutely no way they can damage a group of high-level foes in HM. What could a poor ele possibly do in that case? Support them to death? lol.

Farming is very different from party play. Farming usually depends on all enemies attacking you and you using some skills to make you invulnerable. It only works against a small and special subset of enemies, you can't vanquish whole areas with it. It also completely and utterly fails if you play with 8 people.
On top of the the OP has not posted any farming builds but general builds. No farming to see here, move along please.

In general PvE play, Elementalists are bad damange dealers. They are awesome supporters.