Curse

reaper with no name · Jun 26, 2009, 02:47 PM // 14:47

I've got a really, really dumb question: why don't people just use air magic in HM?

Forgive me if it sounds stupid, because I don't play an ele, but I'm curious. Air has a ton of armor penetration stuff, and HM armor is what supposedly makes eles ineffective there. So wouldn't armor penetration be exactly what the monk ordered? Granted, most of it is single-target, but I would think that armor penetrating single-target spikes would be really effective in HM.

AngeliqueSynner · Jun 26, 2009, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Air magic's innate armor penetration alone wouldn't increase the power of an elementalist.
From what I can tell, 25% would bring the numbers nearer to hitting a NM ranger mob. An increase, but not enough of one to get air to really catch on.

reaper with no name · Jun 26, 2009, 02:59 PM // 14:59

So just not enough damage to compete with other professions then in spite of the armor penetration? Ok, thanks. That question's been bothering me for a while.

Kendel · Jun 26, 2009, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Air Magic vs HM Foes does ok damage, but at the end of the day its still single target and slow casting. 2 second spells for roughly 100 damage isn't really that great, personally i just use Lightning Orb because it does allow you to help spiking foes thanks to the Cracked Armour (and the fact i've been using Chest Thumper recently). But its certainly not the damage dealing attribute line it should be, you help with spikes on certain foes and condition in general.

draxynnic · Jun 27, 2009, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Remember that like all Elementalist skills, air magic is balanced around having L20 targets. The armour penetration helps - air probably loses less by comparison than earth or fire as a result - but remember that the damage air magic does is less to begin with.

That said, I have used air magic in HM, but primarily for Blinding Surge - most of the bar winds up as utility rather than damage. If you have a condition-spread Mesmer around you can add Cracked Armour and/or Weakness to the mix, but a curses Necro can usually do that more efficiently and can deal armour-ignoring damage to boot.

Ensign · Jun 27, 2009, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Air has a ton of armor penetration stuff, and HM armor is what supposedly makes eles ineffective there. So wouldn't armor penetration be exactly what the monk ordered?

Air skills have a built in penalty to their damage to counteract the advantage of armor penetration on the first 60 armor. In effect everything is normalized to 60 armor; instead of doing 70 to a 60 armor target, you do 53 with 25% penetration which ends up doing 70. It's very different from adding 25% armor penetration to a skill that doesn't have a built in damage penalty, which gets a big boost in damage by knocking off a fraction of that initial 60 armor as well.

For every 20 armor a mob has, they get the effect of only 15 of it against Air Magic. So hitting an 80 armor target feels like hitting a 75 armor target instead, and hitting a 100 armor target feels like hitting a 90. The really heavily armored targets feel like hitting 120 instead of 140, but they both feel like you're using a wet noodle.

As a general rule of thumb, an air spell will do about 13% of it's listed damage (or 10% of its 60 armor damage) more than an equivalent armor respecting spell to a high armor target, but will otherwise behave as an armor respecting spell. So figure that a typical 70 damage air spell is worth another 7 damage to very high armor targets over a comparable armor respecting spell, or 14 damage on a 140 damage spell

Basically armor penetration either gives a very small % increase to large numbers, or a very large % increase to very small numbers. Sure, 49 is 40% bigger than 35, but when your 140 damage air nukes are hitting for less than 50 it hardly feels like it matters.

Jeydra · Jun 28, 2009, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

I've got a really, really dumb question: why don't people just use air magic in HM?

Forgive me if it sounds stupid, because I don't play an ele, but I'm curious. Air has a ton of armor penetration stuff, and HM armor is what supposedly makes eles ineffective there. So wouldn't armor penetration be exactly what the monk ordered? Granted, most of it is single-target, but I would think that armor penetrating single-target spikes would be really effective in HM.

You hit on the reason: single-target. You can deal effective damage to a single target, but unless you are running AP you'll want to hit in an AoE. Elementalist damage works in NM not only because of the lower armor, but also because you can hit more targets.

I do use Air Magic when playing for damage in HM though, it + AP is the most effective Elementalist damage build I know.

WhiteAsIce · Jul 06, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

I resorted to turning my Ele into a Discorder for most HM places. With my Discord heroes or not, this is a decent build that I have not yet had problems with.
[Discord][Necrosis][Enfeebling Blood][Parasitic Bond]["You Move Like a Dwarf!"][Elemental Lord][Aura of Restoration][Animate Shambling Horror]

MisterT69 · Jul 06, 2009, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteAsIce

I resorted to turning my Ele into a Discorder for most HM places. With my Discord heroes or not, this is a decent build that I have not yet had problems with.
[Discord][Necrosis][Enfeebling Blood][Parasitic Bond]["You Move Like a Dwarf!"][Elemental Lord][Aura of Restoration][Animate Shambling Horror]

Ether Renewal + elemental lord+ aura of restoration= unlimited energy to spam necrosis. You don't need an elite and non elite verison of discord to pwn face especially if you're bringing 3 heroes bringing the elite version.

WhiteAsIce · Jul 10, 2009, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterT69

Ether Renewal + elemental lord+ aura of restoration= unlimited energy to spam necrosis. You don't need an elite and non elite verison of discord to pwn face especially if you're bringing 3 heroes bringing the elite version.

I would do that if there was a self version of Quickening Zephyr. Otherwise, I can't spam as much.

Pocketmancer · Jul 12, 2009, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteAsIce

I would do that if there was a self version of Quickening Zephyr. Otherwise, I can't spam as much.

Glyph of Swiftness? Use that and a +20% Enchant mod and you can maintain ER.