Curse

Pugs Not Drugs · Jul 13, 2009, 10:20 PM // 22:20

I can understand why MB is better than dual Attunement in PvP cuz of mass enchant stripping and MB's synergy with Distortion, but why PvE, especially on Heroes?

I used this bar on Vekk:

Fire Attunement
Mind Blast
Immolate
Rodgort's Invocation
Fireball
Liquid Flame
Splinter Weapon
FoMF

He constantly ran out of energy unless I disabled Immolate and forced him to cast Invocation wisely.

Fire Attunement
Elemental Attunement
Immolate
Rodgort's Invocation
Fireball
Liquid Flame
Splinter Weapon
FoMF

When I used that bar, he never ran out of energy. He could spam Immolate all day and he would regen his energy back. Enchant stripping was not a problem b/c i bring a Dwayna's Sorrow MM at all times. He didnt even have to stop and cast Mind Blast for meager damage.

Zzes Tyan · Jul 13, 2009, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Fire Attunement is your friend. Use it and you won't EVER run out of energy unless you go spamming Rodgort's on recharge. I run MB, Immo, Rodgort's, Meteor, Optional, Fire Attunement, Aura of Resto, Res Sig.

riceangel · Jul 13, 2009, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Micro MB more, if u don't want to then stick to dual Attune.

Grim Aragorn · Jul 13, 2009, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Searing Flames
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Glowing Gaze
Rodgort's Invocation
Power Drain
Aura of Resto
Fire Attunement
Res Sig

Massive spammable AoE dmg, constant Burning, good energy management, and a useful interrupt (can be micro'd or just let the Hero have fun).

Pugs Not Drugs · Jul 13, 2009, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Isn't Rodgort's pointless in the above build? Since Searing costs less and deals just as much damage with a shorter casting time?

luminoire · Jul 13, 2009, 11:42 PM // 23:42

I run Mind Blast + Glowing Gaze + Fire Attunement + Aura of Restoration on Fire Heroes.
They never run into energy problems, really. Even when both Attunements are down, Mind Blast + Glowing Gaze are there to power Rodgort's Invocation on backup.

Improvavel · Jul 13, 2009, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Mind Blast is superior for human players, especially because you have access to PvE skills. Heroes don't know how to use it so it's a bit more random.

Additionally the best MB bars are composed by FA, MB, RI, LF and then 3/4 long recharge skills like Wards.

Having a bar filled with direct damage spells is quite useless.

Finally, let me tell you a secret about SF bars - people prefer SF over RI because of the lower recharge and cost, but the truth is they can't keep spamming SF on recharge and end up spending more time casting other skills to allow casting SF on recharge and they still can't.

Pugs Not Drugs · Jul 13, 2009, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by luminoire

I run Mind Blast + Glowing Gaze + Fire Attunement + Aura of Restoration on Fire Heroes.
They never run into energy problems, really. Even when both Attunements are down, Mind Blast + Glowing Gaze are there to power Rodgort's Invocation on backup.

That's devoting half your bar to energy management.

Lux Aeterna · Jul 13, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

It's INVOCATION, dude.

I use this for my PvE Eles, normally I run either 1 and a MM or two SF Eles:

Searing Flames
Glowing Gaze
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Searing Heat
Teinai's Heat
Fire Attunement
Aura of Restoration
Death Pact Signet / Flesh of My Flesh

My Eles blow everything up rapidly, I mean all enemies on fire for the duration of every very short fight, and rarely have energy problems especially when running x2 SF.

In general, single target nukes like Immolate are useless in PvE, and Rodgort's high energy cost makes it not worth bringing compared to SF + Heats.

I wouldn't bother with either MB or dual Attunement for PvE, SF or SH with proper energy management will work out much better.

Quote:

(I Ninja edited the spelling in this Thread, Lux, cuz I wanted something to do while I was bored out of my skull... Every Invocation should be spelled correctly! ~Tyrael)

luminoire · Jul 14, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugs Not Drugs

That's devoting half your bar to energy management.

It isn't a problem when MB and GG still deal damage.

Fact of the matter is, RI is 8 sec recharge, Incendiary Bonds 15 secs, and Liquid Flame 15 secs.

You're not going to be idling too much managing your energy, Heroes tend to hit MB or GG over and over as your other skill recharges. None of those three listed above take any considerable amount of time to recharge. As long as their energy stays up, they can still be pumping out larger blows via those three spells and still have enough energy to manage an occasional "we shall return."

Btw, at times I replace Incendiary Bonds with Mark of Rodgort, which really makes Mind Blast/Glowing Gaze not too different from Immolate, save their cheaper costs and energy gain upon hit.

IronSheik · Jul 14, 2009, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Because dual Attunement doesn't do 50 damage every 3 seconds.

AtomicMew · Jul 14, 2009, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Because dual Attunement doesn't do 50 damage every 3 seconds.

Neither does MB in HM, tbh. Both are ftl. If you need energy, use AP.

Chthon · Jul 14, 2009, 02:12 AM // 02:12

For Heroes? I couldn't tell you.

For players? Because MB gives you straight up energy that can be used on PvE skills nstead of armor-sensitive elemental skills.

smilingscar · Jul 14, 2009, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Because no one wants to spend 4-5 seconds before each battle recasting enchantments.

And concerning heroes, they generally suck at maintaining skills you want them to maintain. Maybe if we could have another function besides "use skill now" and "don't use skill" that would be something like a control+Shift click to our hero skill bar that forces heroes to use a skill on recharge. Then, some people would use dual attunements.

Gift3d · Jul 14, 2009, 03:09 AM // 03:09

cause mb does damage and can't be stripped?

Pugs Not Drugs · Jul 14, 2009, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

cause mb does damage and can't be stripped?

The damage is meager. 50 damage that doesn't ignore armor. And, like I said, I always use dwaynas sorrow as a cover enchant.

And I know about searing flames. I generally run 2 SF eles and an mm. But certain areas, I have to drop one of the eles for something else, I also change their build. SF on its own isn't very powerful. I tried Savannah Heat + Deep Freeze, but heroes didn't use it correctly and monsters ran out of Savannah Heat without Deep Freeze. I dont feel like microing every 20 seconds. So I went Mind Blast. That was a disaster. When went dual attunement, heros maintained them perfectly.

Pocketmancer · Jul 14, 2009, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Heroes is a different story for MB. They don't know how to manage their energy and are better off stuck with dual attunement or being flatout replaced with Necros.

If I'm playing, I'd much rather run MB than dual attunement because dedicating two slots to strippable energy management isn't worth it.

Bytor · Jul 23, 2009, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Ive not seen my heros run MB builds well, they've always had energy issues.

Necromas · Jul 24, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

I agree elemental attunement is much more useful than mind blast on heroes. Mind blast takes up a lot of their time, and in PvE it won't do much damage at all on it's own.

AP nukers are great, assassins promise provides energy and really widens your skill options because you don't have to worry about recharge.

I like SF eles too, particularly when I use my paragon with the skill "They're on fire!".

Searing Flames
Glowing Gaze
Shock Arrow
Weaken Armor
Enfeebling Blood
Aura of Restoration
Fire Attunement
Resurrection Signet

Cracked armor is just awesome in PvE, increasing all non-armor ignoring damage in the party against anything tougher than a level 20 caster, and opens up skill synergies. Enfeebling blood gives the ele some midliner defense without even touching their energy pool. And shock arrow is basically a second glowing gaze, an alternative to GoLE so the hero doesn't risk wasting charges on a 5e spell, or even enfeebling blood which is a 1e spell.

I know it may look contradictory pointing out that mind blast has a big downside in eating up time and doing low damage when I just posted a build with two non-elite skills with the same downsides, but in a searing flames build, there is plenty of time to use them (and other 1s cast time skills) in between casting searing flames.

angmar_nite · Jul 24, 2009, 04:18 AM // 04:18

On heroes, short of utility builds SF is the dominant AOE build for nuking and damage. However on a human MB provides such tremendous flexibility for a wide range of expensive PVE skills while spamming a powerful invocation. The MB ele can be epidemicing enemies with blinding flash while juggling finish him and painkiller without stop or difficulty. THat being said an AP nuker on an ele is invaluable in HM due to his ability to deal quick shock damage and overwhelm enemy monks.