Curse

HigherMinion · Nov 17, 2009, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Oh look, constructive criticism. This build should never be run really unless you make a mega-gimmicky 8-man full of ER or something. Most we've had in one team is a trio of ERs; all E/Mos. Dubbed by Varda as the best backline ever

But after you add a fourth ER you lose alot of damage...

I added Dark Fury just because alot of people like it's effect, and it's another enchant for ER to leech off.

AtomicMew · Nov 17, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Can you clear the large majority of areas with 8 Elementalists using AP? Didn't think so.

You probably could, actually.

Quote:

Obviously if you're going out with H/H or something then you're better off playing an offensive character for the simple reason that you have PvE skills while nobody else does, which makes you the best damage-dealer in the team. But then, what makes you think this is a H/H build? ER is an awesome skill just like AP, but you use it where it's suited. Obviously you don't go AP when your team needs a healer.

Okay, so there are two points here that I think you are confusing. First, specifically about the OP's build. Let's assume a full 8 man team, which honestly, is a pretty ridiculous assumption. Are you saying that the OP's build could beat out this:

AP
Animate Shambling Horror
Animate Bone Fiend
BotM
FH!
GDW
EBSoH
Dark Fury

Even just being necro primary, it should be obvious that it doesn't.

Secondly, if you want to talk about ER in general (e.g. ER infuser) for a full man team, you have a point and I understand what you're saying. However, unless you do have a COMPLETELY full 8 man team, which again, is pretty rare, you're still way better off taking more damage and just using hero healers for the "large majority of areas."

Jeydra · Nov 18, 2009, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Prove that you can clear most areas with 8 Elementalists using AP with a screenshot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Are you saying that the OP's build could beat out this:

AP
Animate Shambling Horror
Animate Bone Fiend
BotM
FH!
GDW
EBSoH
Dark Fury

Even just being necro primary, it should be obvious that it doesn't.

Maybe. That's why OP said it's a gimmick. What's your point?

AtomicMew · Nov 18, 2009, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Prove that you can clear most areas with 8 Elementalists using AP with a screenshot.

Why would I possibly want to do that?

First off, I probably wouldn't even be able to get 8 players together to do this. But cmon, you know it's possible. Theorycraft: 8x EVAS + YMLAD = dead any target. You could also get some decent healing with BOTGD x8 no recharge.

Quote:

Maybe. That's why OP said it's a gimmick. What's your point?

Um, I thought the point was to discuss the merits, advantages and disadvantages of the OP's build?

PS: You owe me 50k Jeydra

Shyft the Pyro · Nov 18, 2009, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Prove that you can clear most areas with 8 Elementalists using AP with a screenshot.

Multiple copies of AP do not stack. The most recently applied one overrides the rest. Which means an 8 AP Ele team will always be composed of 7 angry eles

MercenaryKnight · Nov 18, 2009, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

Multiple copies of AP do not stack. The most recently applied one overrides the rest. Which means an 8 AP Ele team will always be composed of 7 angry eles

I am about 90% sure that they indeed stack. Just like if 7 people cast essence bond on a tank. They all get energy when the tank gets struck. Every ele that casted assassin's promise on the monster (if it dies) they will all get recharge.

I dunno for sure but I believe that's how it works.

iTwilight · Nov 18, 2009, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

I am about 90% sure that they indeed stack. Just like if 7 people cast essence bond on a tank. They all get energy when the tank gets struck. Every ele that casted assassin's promise on the monster (if it dies) they will all get recharge.

I dunno for sure but I believe that's how it works.

Suppose that needs testing...
I still think perhaps that this could develop interesting builds with the support of a ER infuser backline.
I mean, as stated previously, no target would live long against 8 EVAS + YMLAD, let alone barbs MoP on balled groups etc AS WELL.

Thanks for some ideas

Jeydra · Nov 18, 2009, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Why would I possibly want to do that?

First off, I probably wouldn't even be able to get 8 players together to do this. But cmon, you know it's possible. Theorycraft: 8x EVAS + YMLAD = dead any target. You could also get some decent healing with BOTGD x8 no recharge.

Um, I thought the point was to discuss the merits, advantages and disadvantages of the OP's build?

PS: You owe me 50k Jeydra

Lol want to see how fast you die to any competent damage group? I see no way for you to take out a group of Burning Spirits for example, or a group of Charr. No prots ftw.

I do not think the point was to discuss the merits, advantages or disadvantages of the OP's build. The point is to discuss how to improve the build, given what the OP set it out to be.

PS: No, you owe me 50k. It's just that you haven't posted in that thread since I uploaded my screenshots (last I know anyway, haven't checked it for a very long time) and so I assumed you wanted to write it off, and w/e.

AtomicMew · Nov 18, 2009, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Lol want to see how fast you die to any competent damage group? I see no way for you to take out a group of Burning Spirits for example, or a group of Charr. No prots ftw.

No prots? Earth line is full of prots. +kinetic armor, wards etc. +70 AL is almost SY! level. Against charr, EBSoH + 8x nukes should kill ANY charr group. I'm not saying it's efficient or safe or good, just that it could work.

Quote:

I do not think the point was to discuss the merits, advantages or disadvantages of the OP's build. The point is to discuss how to improve the build, given what the OP set it out to be.

Some ideas need to be trashed, because they are strictly inferior and can't be saved. My suggestion was to play AP. For example, AP nuker, or N/A minion mancer.

Quote:

PS: No, you owe me 50k. It's just that you haven't posted in that thread since I uploaded my screenshots (last I know anyway, haven't checked it for a very long time) and so I assumed you wanted to write it off, and w/e.

I thought I posted my screenshot first :P

maxxfury · Nov 18, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

Multiple copies of AP do not stack. The most recently applied one overrides the rest. Which means an 8 AP Ele team will always be composed of 7 angry eles

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

I am about 90% sure that they indeed stack. Just like if 7 people cast essence bond on a tank. They all get energy when the tank gets struck. Every ele that casted assassin's promise on the monster (if it dies) they will all get recharge.

I dunno for sure but I believe that's how it works.

8 AP's stack fine! as MercenaryKnight said ^

And a team with 8AP bars? yup it works! done it a few times for giggles

1xAP N/a mop nuker
2xAP monks (one rof/boon one kiss/patient)
4xAP Me/a sin spammers
1xAP AP earth elem w/ward
All with spears.

Chthon · Nov 18, 2009, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

8 AP's stack fine! as MercenaryKnight said ^

And a team with 8AP bars? yup it works! done it a few times for giggles

1xAP N/a mop nuker
2xAP monks (one rof/boon one kiss/patient)
4xAP Me/a sin spammers
1xAP AP earth elem w/ward
All with spears.

I can't help but imagine this team has really low damage...

ElnoreVarda · Nov 18, 2009, 08:02 PM // 20:02

A team full of AP abuser would roll as hard as a phys team would, BUT ER ele > AP monk. Because for the last time; 1/4 cast 250 heal, infinite energy and 8 prot bonds. When you want prots and red-bar, bring ER. Monks can do things ERs cant, yes -- but dont say an AP monk is better. Viable yes, you can say that -- but not better.

I dont like how you people always split up in two camps, and just argue because you can. Usually it seems like you are just defending your playstyles and trying to convince the other party that their way of playing the game sucks. Stop doing that. Its rea

Jeydra · Nov 19, 2009, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

No prots? Earth line is full of prots. +kinetic armor, wards etc. +70 AL is almost SY! level. Against charr, EBSoH + 8x nukes should kill ANY charr group. I'm not saying it's efficient or safe or good, just that it could work.

I don't think it will. You have no healing (8x BotGD doesn't count). And there is damage that goes through armor, degen, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Some ideas need to be trashed, because they are strictly inferior and can't be saved. My suggestion was to play AP. For example, AP nuker, or N/A minion mancer.

A E/N/A Minion master? How?

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

I thought I posted my screenshot first :P

You did, but I didn't say I'd pay you if you posted a screenshot. I posted one shortly after you posted yours with more people doing Duncan + Borlis Pass that day than in your screenshot - so you owe me 50k.

PS: Sorry Varda.

PPS: It's 8 Elementalists with AP = no Monks.

Xenomortis · Nov 19, 2009, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I can't help but imagine this team has really low damage...

Why?

That's quite a lot of damage there.

Chthon · Nov 19, 2009, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Why?

That's quite a lot of damage there.

In and of themselves, vanguard sins don't do super damage. If they're not on the Barbs/MoP, even 2 of them probably won't bring something down. You're basically relying on target-coordination among the AI-controlled sins to follow the necro and/or gang up on targets (dubious), or the earth ele somehow mopping up when the sins don't follow the necro.

I should perhaps rephrase my concern though. I'm worried that the sin AI is going to muck up execution pretty regularly, and, once in that condition, the party seems to lack the damage to recover.

Xenomortis · Nov 19, 2009, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

In and of themselves, vanguard sins don't do super damage. If they're not on the Barbs/MoP, even 2 of them probably won't bring something down. You're basically relying on target-coordination among the AI-controlled sins to follow the necro and/or gang up on targets (dubious), or the earth ele somehow mopping up when the sins don't follow the necro.

I should perhaps rephrase my concern though. I'm worried that the sin AI is going to muck up execution pretty regularly, and, once in that condition, the party seems to lack the damage to recover.

The sins are only part of the damage the mesmers put out.
Either YMLAD or CoP along with Finish Him, perhaps Fragility (but that would only setup for CoP really...).
Given they're humans, they should manage to coordinate themselves - AP-MoP calls - everyone spikes. Repeat.

maxxfury · Nov 20, 2009, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I can't help but imagine this team has really low damage...

Hence for giggles

Its more a reliability issue of targeting that lack of damage tho...if the sins do as they are told and target the Mop focus its win, other wise its a little hap hazard

its fun tho to see 20+~ sins out when its rolling

*edit*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

You're basically relying on target-coordination among the AI-controlled sins to follow the necro and/or gang up on targets (dubious), or the earth ele somehow mopping up when the sins don't follow the necro.

I should perhaps rephrase my concern though. I'm worried that the sin AI is going to muck up execution pretty regularly, and, once in that condition, the party seems to lack the damage to recover.

forgot to read the newer threads

yeah basically! But if you all rock spears that damage alone is enough to proc a kill from the mop nuker incase the sins decide to play silly and not target the mop focus, not to mention the damage you can hit from ylmad's and cops..

BUt yes..its more for giggles that a serious solid hard work team setup!

WhiteAsIce · Dec 03, 2009, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Ok... avoiding all the arguing going around, I've been running a modified version of this for some time with my Discord heroes:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/User:White...crosis_Spammer

E/N | Curses 12 | Energy Storage 12+1+1
Necrosis
Shadow of Fear
Enfeebling Blood
Weaken Armor
Technobabble
Pain Inverter
Aura of Restoration
Ether Renewal

I wield a +20% +5E enchantments spear and a 20/20 Curses focus.

Necrosis is my main damage dealer. If it gets disabled/diverted, I'm a sitting duck.
SoF and EB disable most melee foes, WA for a general easy-to-use condition that works well with minions, Technobabble to deal with casters, and PI for pesky AoE foes.
AoR is good enough to maintain energy with, as most battles aren't long enough to deplete my full energy bar. If energy starts to get low, I cast ER and spam Necrosis.

AtomicMew · Dec 05, 2009, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteAsIce

Ok... avoiding all the arguing going around, I've been running a modified version of this for some time with my Discord heroes:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/User:White...crosis_Spammer

E/N | Curses 12 | Energy Storage 12+1+1
Necrosis
Shadow of Fear
Enfeebling Blood
Weaken Armor
Technobabble
Pain Inverter
Aura of Restoration
Ether Renewal

I wield a +20% +5E enchantments spear and a 20/20 Curses focus.

Necrosis is my main damage dealer. If it gets disabled/diverted, I'm a sitting duck.
SoF and EB disable most melee foes, WA for a general easy-to-use condition that works well with minions, Technobabble to deal with casters, and PI for pesky AoE foes.
AoR is good enough to maintain energy with, as most battles aren't long enough to deplete my full energy bar. If energy starts to get low, I cast ER and spam Necrosis.

Your build can be vastly improved. Take advantage of the fact that you have infinite energy. That means taking the most expensive skills you can. Mindbender is a must on this type of build. SoF is strictly inferior to meekness when you don't have to worry about sacrifice (Reckless Haste can also work too). EB and WA are weak skills compared to their more expensive counterparts. Put them on a hero and manual it if you're worried about meeting discord requirement.

E/N | Curses 12 | Energy Storage 12+1+1
Necrosis
Barbs
Meekness or Reckless Haste
Insidious Parasite
Chillblains
Technobabble or GDW
Mindbender
Ether Renewal

WhiteAsIce · Dec 15, 2009, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Your build can be vastly improved. Take advantage of the fact that you have infinite energy. That means taking the most expensive skills you can. Mindbender is a must on this type of build. SoF is strictly inferior to meekness when you don't have to worry about sacrifice (Reckless Haste can also work too). EB and WA are weak skills compared to their more expensive counterparts. Put them on a hero and manual it if you're worried about meeting discord requirement.

E/N | Curses 12 | Energy Storage 12+1+1
Necrosis
Barbs
Meekness or Reckless Haste
Insidious Parasite
Chillblains
Technobabble or GDW
Mindbender
Ether Renewal

Barbs would require physical attackers, which I would only have with minions since I usually run with other casters, and my Ele's spear has a Shocking prefix that cannot be replaced.
I don't like Chilblains much... Enchantment removal isn't too big for me.
As much as I like Technobabble, I put EBSoW instead for more spell spamming.
Also, Insidious Parasite doesn't synergize well with Meekness nor Reckless Haste, since the foe will need to hit for it to work. Works well with Enfeebling Blood though.