Curse

Desert Rose · Mar 21, 2010, 04:08 PM // 16:08

What is the big deal if someone analyzes the usefulness of a profession and compares it to other professions?
waeland summary displays pretty accurate what the strenghts and limits of a ele are, and it will help any new player more than the philosophy "never dare to say anything negative about my profession".

waeland · Mar 21, 2010, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by khezial tahr

Seriously? Why would you bother posting this crap in the ele forum? Or at all? Why can't you possibly believe that eles can be FUN to play?

Calling facts "crap" does not changes them. I do play ele, mainly earth. Yes, it is fun, I like great versatility of builds. But also yes, it is easier to find place in HM PvE with necro or sin primary for example. There is one exception - ER ele/mo builds but I expect that ER will be changed.

Desert Rose: thanks for support;)

WhiteAsIce · Mar 22, 2010, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by waeland

There is one exception - ER ele/mo builds

Ever since the discovery of that build, I only get into 10% of any PuGs, especially ones that are at the "GLF MONK TO GO" phase. In fact, I'd say one out of 10 PuGs I get into, when I ping the build, I get kicked immediately. When I tell the groups I can heal, they laugh and tell me to "nuke like ur supposed to"... It's getting to the point that I don't do ER Infuse much lately...

Xenomortis · Mar 22, 2010, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteAsIce

Ever since the discovery of that build, I only get into 10% of any PuGs, especially ones that are at the "GLF MONK TO GO" phase. In fact, I'd say one out of 10 PuGs I get into, when I ping the build, I get kicked immediately. When I tell the groups I can heal, they laugh and tell me to "nuke like ur supposed to"... It's getting to the point that I don't do ER Infuse much lately...

People in pick-up groups are typically very ignorant and often stupid. This is not surprising or new.

If you want to get anything hard done, accept that joining random groups is not generally the way to do it. You'll be much more successful if you played with friends or guildies, or even starting your own pickup group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by waeland

but I expect that ER will be changed.

It's a build that can only be used in a team. Yes it's very strong, but there are a number of things that it cannot do that monks can do very well and ER has a number of very glaring weaknesses that the team needs to be aware of.

khezial tahr · Mar 22, 2010, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

l it will help any new player more than the philosophy "never dare to say anything negative about my profession".

What did you read that made you think I said this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by waeland

Calling facts "crap" does not changes them. I do play ele, mainly earth. Yes, it is fun, I like great versatility of builds. But also yes, it is easier to find place in HM PvE with necro or sin primary for example. There is one exception - ER ele/mo builds but I expect that ER will be changed.

Desert Rose: thanks for support

So the measure of a class is how quickly you can join a PUG? And yet people bash Monks?

They are fun. And they are versatile. The fact that they do not have the versatility of a necro is a game balance issue. The "crap" is saying they have no place in HM. Are they primary damage dealers? No. They bring something else to HM entirely.

waeland · Mar 23, 2010, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by khezial tahr

The "crap" is saying they have no place in HM.

You have problem with reading comprehension. If you disagree with previous sentence, please find where I say ele has no place in HM - opinion you are so passionately flaming me for.

PaulVanK · Mar 23, 2010, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by waeland

Calling facts "crap" does not changes them. I do play ele, mainly earth. Yes, it is fun, I like great versatility of builds. But also yes, it is easier to find place in HM PvE with necro or sin primary for example. There is one exception - ER ele/mo builds but I expect that ER will be changed.

Well sins are last profession I would like to see in my group.
Usually they are useless - think they are tanks and die first running into group. Never did like sins.

I don't think that necro's can easier find a group. There are many necro's so sometimes it's very hard to find a group.

And good nuke is always good. Anyway it doesn't change fact that some mobs really have to big armor... Destroyers against water (!) have like ~120 armor, so they take 1/3 dmg (with cracked armor 1/2) so well ye... ANET should do something about this... and a spell like Shatterstone that deal 2x ~100 dmg will deal 2x ~30-50 = ~60-100 (with 15 energy and 2 sec cast), where spirit spammer with 1 attack will deal (6 spirits) 6x20 (painful bond) + 6x~20 (spirits) = 240 dmg... Well aren't ele's supposed to NUKE? Of course we have skills that gives us +25% dmg, but it's really big buff when u deal 30 dmg :P And mobs scatter with great skills like Savannah's Heat... Hard to say it, but in some areas ele's are useless :P
Now all groups want only Spirit Spammers, couse now they deal dmg :P

About Fire and Earth... I like both, also like Air and Water

Xenomortis · Mar 23, 2010, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulVanK

Usually they are useless - think they are tanks and die first running into group. Never did like sins.

Identify the good Assassins. When it comes to damage, nothing really beats Assassins. Their single target DPS is high already and when combined with the fact that they chain Death Blossom under Splinter or GDW on a target with Mark of Pain, nothing can come close.
Well, an OoU MM might, but their damage is uncoordinated and you can only really bring one of them.

The answer to keeping an Assassin alive is the same as keeping anyone alive in HM. Pre-prot with Prot Spirit and heal as necessary. Sometimes a prot like Shield of Absorption is nice, but is something of a luxury.
An ER Ele shouldn't have any trouble.

Daesu · Mar 23, 2010, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulVanK

Well sins are last profession I would like to see in my group.
Usually they are useless - think they are tanks and die first running into group. Never did like sins.

Of all the melee characters a sin dishes out damage the fastest, beating even your scythe warrior.

The problem is most PUG protectors suck, have slow reflexes, and dont know how to pre-prot.

Quote:

I don't think that necro's can easier find a group. There are many necro's so sometimes it's very hard to find a group.

Necros don't need a group. They work best with a discordway hero team, if needed. I wouldn't worry about necros.

Jeydra · Mar 23, 2010, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Fire damage is very powerful with the right team. Multiple copies of Searing Flames and/or Savannah Heat can spike down properly balled mobs.

Even if you aren't using a SC team, its not hard to pull a mob, snare, and AoE.

The only two earth skills I use often are Churning Earth and Eruption. Unfortunately, the long recharge means AP is often the best elite choice. Unsteady Ground is really the only viable Earth elite for general PvE, but I find AP to be superior in most cases.

If you want to do damage, Earth is the wrong line, but it can provide a lot of support in an AP bar:
AP
YMLAD
EVAS
FH
Churning Earth
Eruption
GoLE
Optional (I like Maelstorm, you can also switch out one of the PvE skills for something like Mindbender to spam these skills faster)

I use this build the most when I'm not using ER.

^This, I'll add that I'd prefer Earth Attunement in the optional slot for less energy issues (15e Churning Earth and 25e Eruption already, in addition to the energy-intensive PvE skills).

Daesu · Mar 23, 2010, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

^This, I'll add that I'd prefer Earth Attunement in the optional slot for less energy issues (15e Churning Earth and 25e Eruption already, in addition to the energy-intensive PvE skills).

That bar is pretty much what my Ele uses also, but I find that you dont need Earth Attunement just for the 2 earth magic skills. AP+GoLE takes care of the energy needs to spam them.

By the way, I did not choose Earth because it has the most damage in HM, I choose Earth mainly for its utility. That and I am too lazy to adjust skill bars everytime I fight somethings that don't burn, like destroyers. Most of the spike damage comes from PvE skills anyway.

Malician · Mar 23, 2010, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteAsIce

Ever since the discovery of that build, I only get into 10% of any PuGs, especially ones that are at the "GLF MONK TO GO" phase. In fact, I'd say one out of 10 PuGs I get into, when I ping the build, I get kicked immediately. When I tell the groups I can heal, they laugh and tell me to "nuke like ur supposed to"... It's getting to the point that I don't do ER Infuse much lately...

Remember, when you join a group you're submitting to the authority of the group leader to some extent. Make your own group and simply tell people what you're doing. If someone complains and you reach the limit of your patience, let them leave or kick them. Getting players is absolutely no problem when you only need one other healer (and you don't mind if he sucks terribly). I think ER is by far the easiest build to "find" groups with because you only need to worry about others doing enough damage, not damage mitigation, survivability, etcetera.

khezial tahr · Mar 23, 2010, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by waeland

You have problem with reading comprehension. If you disagree with previous sentence, please find where I say ele has no place in HM - opinion you are so passionately flaming me for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by waeland

is it worth to use ele for HM PvE at all?

To be specific, this is what I took exception to. And I answered it. There was no flaming. That was a typical response for these forums. Tame compared to most actually.

Desert Rose · Mar 25, 2010, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulVanK

Well aren't ele's supposed to NUKE?

No they are not, just because the mage-type professions in many other games are supposed to nuke doesn't mean that the mage-type profession in GW is supposed to nuke.

Eles are supposed to support, especially defensively. The problem is that support is mostly not as effective as even more damage or healing/prots in PvE, and if you want defensive support "Save yourselves!" and maybe "There is nothing to fear!" is usually more than enough.

Jeydra · Mar 25, 2010, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Look at the GuildWiki page on Elementalists ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuilWiki

The Elementalist is the classical "fireball-and-lightning bolt" spellcaster of the game. Their power lies in their ability to do a large amount of damage in a short time with effective energy management skills. Their spells can deal considerable AoE or spike damage, as well as provide supportive wards to protect allies. Elementalists are one of the most sought-after classes in PUGs (behind Monks) due to their sheer damage output.

Or you could try the official Wiki ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Official Wiki

Elementalists summon the powers of earth, air, fire, and water and command them at will. They can inflict more damage in a single strike than any other profession. Earth Magic summons quakes and eruptions, encases enemies in stone, or protects allies. Air Magic harnesses the power of tempests to strike foes down with lightning or enable allies to run like the wind. Fire Magic manifests flames, fireballs, molten lava, and even meteors to burn enemies to a crisp. Water Magic conjures mist and ice to slow enemy movement and attacks, blur vision, protect allies against magic, and inflict cold damage on enemies. Elementalists have access to Energy regenerating skills, and when chosen as a primary character, they can increase their maximum Energy over time. The wise Elementalist avoids becoming surrounded, but keeps a local area-of-effect spell on hand just in case.

I don't think Elementalists are supposed to support. They're just forced into support roles because they've no other competitive option.

Xenomortis · Mar 25, 2010, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I don't think Elementalists are supposed to support. They're just forced into support roles because they've no other competitive option.

That's been the case ever since release in PvP as far as I can tell. It's been the case for PvE too since HM really (although Eles feel the bite of armour in late NM too).
Certainly from the PvP aspect they've been balanced around mid-line support rather than damage.

The real problem from this is that the support skills the Ele does have just aren't valued very highly in PvE. Wards and BSurge and that's pretty much it. Mass knockdown can be more easily achieved with an Earthshaker Warrior or GDW - that way you deal more damage too.
This leaves Ether Renewal.

WhiteAsIce · Mar 28, 2010, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Well, HM or not, I love a Searing Flames build because it perfectly incorporates any 3 PvE skills of choice, albeit damage is less in HM. The posted SF build on PvX is what I use for generic AoE nuking. Otherwise, I use a Mind Blast+Necrosis build. I have yet to formulate a decent earth build with 3 PvE skills in it besides the AP caller build.

Necromas · Mar 28, 2010, 02:04 PM // 14:04

On the armor issue.

Cracked armor goes a long way to helping get more damage. You can work curses into an SF ele build (or party with a necro) to get weaken armor and take enfeebling blood too while you're at it.

Armor hurts though, you should still try to compensate by working in utility, use meteor for it's knockdown effect not the damage, keep things burning, take something like enfeebling blood or a ward in the slot you would have used for an extra nuke.

JDRyder · Mar 28, 2010, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Bomberman

All the talk of fire is the superior element in pve. i hate fire with a passion. how would earth suffice in a pve enviorment. i can see skills like unsteady ground and ward of stability to bring more to a party then straight dmg wich is weak neways.

my question is is it worth time to invest in earth for pve a all?

I myself like earth eles more. Wards are amazing, and as said they have more all around utility than fire

WhiteAsIce · Mar 29, 2010, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

I myself like earth eles more. Wards are amazing, and as said they have more all around utility than fire

Well then again, there's the old arguement of...
Foes have dangerous AoE spells/skills. Would you rather keep your party in a clump in the ward and have the entire party take the hit, or spread your party out to reduce the damage to only a few party members?
Seems like wards are better for those going with H/H so you don't have to worry about flagging them around.