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Old Jul 22, 2010, 07:34 AM // 07:34   #1
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Thumbs down Comparing PvE Skills
Yikes.. I just had a look at Lightning Surge, compared to Spirit Rift below:

Lightning Surge
Attribute: Air Magic
Type: Elite Hex Spell
Energy: 15
Activation: 2
Recharge: 10

After 3 seconds, target foe is knocked down and struck for 14...83 lightning damage.

Spirit Rift
Attribute: Channeling Magic
Type: Spell
Energy: 10
Activation: 2
Recharge: 5

Open a Spirit Rift at target foe's location. After 3 seconds, all adjacent foes are struck for 25...113 lightning damage and suffer from Cracked Armor for 1...16 seconds.


I'm not sure how knockdown can compare to 25% more damage, cracked armor, less energy, faster recast, can't be stripped and a non-elite skill. Lightning Surge also has no armor penetration for this skill!

Need to split that one into a PvP/PvE skill for sure!
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 09:09 AM // 09:09   #2
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How about removing it as a Hex spell and the 3 seconds and adding in weakness, 25% armor penetration. Knockdown is retained that is
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 09:12 AM // 09:12   #3
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I aggre that Lightning surge must be changed. But there is still difference. Spirit rift is aoe after 3sec, so target have 3 sec to move.
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 10:09 AM // 10:09   #4
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Spirit Rift can be easily avoided by any player who actually pays attention to the battlefield therefore making it quite a bad skill because you have 3 secs to get the hell out of that position

Altough Lightning Surge isn't really elite spell worthy imo
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 11:16 AM // 11:16   #5
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Originally Posted by blazob View Post
Spirit rift is aoe after 3sec, so target have 3 sec to move.
Totally irrelevant in PvE. Thunderclap / Invoke Lightning is the elite you would take if you are going air. Leave Lightning Surge as it is, we do not need anymore unnecessary PvE/PvP splits.
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 11:17 AM // 11:17   #6
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He's talking about for pve, and enemy ai wont kite from it
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 01:15 PM // 13:15   #7
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It's an elite because of mind shock, simple as.

KD is strong in PvP, that's why there is only 1 KD in fire (non-elite), but if LSurge wasn't an elite, an air ele could bring LSurge, Mind Shock and Gale and Gust (also Elite). All of which are ranged KDs that unlike Stoning in Earth magic, can't be kited.

So yeah, buff it for PvE if you want. I don't care
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 01:40 PM // 13:40   #8
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Originally Posted by Catchphrase View Post
Leave Lightning Surge as it is, we do not need anymore unnecessary PvE/PvP splits.
There's nothing wrong with splits and if a spell is outclassed in PvE because it is balanced for PvP, then it should be split so it can have a use in PvE.
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 02:30 PM // 14:30   #9
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Removing the hex part would lead to people complaining about it being a nerf, as that would be a nerf.
Last edited by Cuilan; Jul 22, 2010 at 03:31 PM // 15:31..
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 02:55 PM // 14:55   #10
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Spirit Rift can be kited, Lightning Surge can't. KDs are powerful, maybe not as much in PvE...but that's like saying Gale should be buffed because it's not useful in PvE. PvE skill splits should be used when a class or attribute line as a whole has none (or very few) good options for PvE but the skill is balanced in PvP, not simply because one skill is weaker than another. There are always going to be some skills that are weaker than others, fact, end of story.
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 06:03 PM // 18:03   #11
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While LSurge is underpowered in PvE, i cant see any real "need" to split it. Not many use Air Magic in PvE anyways.
The KD for PvP is strong but it definitely could use some extra "umph" for PvE, i would be happy with +25% armor penetration or maybe an added effect, but w/e.

I would rather Anet spend their time fixing completely worthless elites like Second Wind.
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 06:14 PM // 18:14   #12
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Originally Posted by Mia Clemons View Post
I would rather Anet spend their time fixing completely worthless elites like Second Wind
You don't use that?
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 07:59 PM // 19:59   #13
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You don't use that?
I pray your joking....
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 04:24 AM // 04:24   #14
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Originally Posted by Skyy High View Post
Spirit Rift can be kited, Lightning Surge can't. KDs are powerful, maybe not as much in PvE...but that's like saying Gale should be buffed because it's not useful in PvE. PvE skill splits should be used when a class or attribute line as a whole has none (or very few) good options for PvE but the skill is balanced in PvP, not simply because one skill is weaker than another. There are always going to be some skills that are weaker than others, fact, end of story.
The bolded part basically describe how elementalists are in PvE....so more buffing and PvE/PvP splits please.

The funny thing is that fact that Air Magic is pretty much the best attribute for eles (after energy storage for ER).
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 06:14 AM // 06:14   #15
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Originally Posted by UnChosen View Post
The funny thing is that fact that Air Magic is pretty much the best attribute for eles (after energy storage for ER).
Really? Wards, hexes and AoE aren't big deals?

Regarding the OP, when something adds KD it always adds to the cost by a lot. Unless you make fun of how dwarves move.
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 07:06 AM // 07:06   #16
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Really? Wards, hexes and AoE aren't big deals?

Regarding the OP, when something adds KD it always adds to the cost by a lot. Unless you make fun of how dwarves move.
As long as the tank + spank mechanics (used in SC), SY!/Sabway/Discordway/Spiritway, Aegis and other similar stuff exist the two are not a big deal.

As for AoE, it'll be a big deal without the insane armour that the mobs have.
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 03:20 PM // 15:20   #17
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Originally Posted by UnChosen View Post
As long as the tank + spank mechanics (used in SC), SY!/Sabway/Discordway/Spiritway, Aegis and other similar stuff exist the two are not a big deal.

As for AoE, it'll be a big deal without the insane armour that the mobs have.
Why do people only look at high-end PvE gimmicks to determine the value of everything else? Does everyone run SC builds? No. So why are they put out there like the metric for every other build in the game?

And you didn't really answer the question. What, from Air Magic, makes it the most valuable, compared to other attributes?
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20   #18
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Originally Posted by Xiaquin View Post
Why do people only look at high-end PvE gimmicks to determine the value of everything else? Does everyone run SC builds? No. So why are they put out there like the metric for every other build in the game?
I dont understand this either... I think it would be better to look at balancing skills in PvE from a general PuG or randomway H/H setting (aka general PvE).
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 10:02 PM // 22:02   #19
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Originally Posted by Xiaquin View Post
Why do people only look at high-end PvE gimmicks to determine the value of everything else? Does everyone run SC builds? No. So why are they put out there like the metric for every other build in the game?

And you didn't really answer the question. What, from Air Magic, makes it the most valuable, compared to other attributes?
Tank N' Spank, Sabway, Discordway, Spirit Spam, and Aegis are NOT high-end gimmicks...and I avoided listing SF, DWG, and others especially for this reason too. -.-

And by "used in SC" I mean the general concept that could be applied everywhere, even in low end areas. Get a tank to take everything and there's no need to ward/hex.

Seriously people, read please.
Last edited by UnChosen; Jul 23, 2010 at 10:05 PM // 22:05..
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 11:29 PM // 23:29   #20
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Originally Posted by UnChosen View Post
Tank N' Spank, Sabway, Discordway, Spirit Spam, and Aegis are NOT high-end gimmicks...and I avoided listing SF, DWG, and others especially for this reason too. -.-

And by "used in SC" I mean the general concept that could be applied everywhere, even in low end areas. Get a tank to take everything and there's no need to ward/hex.
You're referencing gimmicks, all the same. Sab/Discord are used in VQ and Slaver's Exile, too. Secondly, you point to one strategy, tanking. If you ward/hex, you don't need to tank. I did that just a few hours ago in the ZM.

Ranger (Me): Damage, ward, spirit, EVAS.
Gwen: Hex/Shutdown
Olias: MM
Xandra: Resto

Tanking is just one strategy and also really needs a human to do it. As such, it's impractical for many of us.
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