Curse

LifeInfusion · Oct 11, 2010, 04:37 AM // 04:37

I went through the entire skill list to find what doesn't hinge on damage, to be used in HM.

Quote:

Aura of restoration (1 energy return on every spell, heal)
Elemental Lord (1 energy return , heal, +1 to ele attributes)
Energy Blast (20 cooldown... but armor ignoring)
Ether Renewal (ER eles)
Ether Prism (wannabee ER eles)

Deep Freeze (66% slower in the area ... 15 cooldown AND 25 energy)
Freezing Gust
Frigid armor
Glowing Ice
Ice Spikes
Icy Shackles
Maelstrom (hard to use without deep freeze, expensive)
Mist Form (gimmick, Glyph of Swiftness and an Of Enchanting upgrade)
Slippery ground
Steam (relies on burning)
Blurred Vision
Ward Against Harm
Water Trident (spammy KD)
Winter's Embrace (use Freezing Gust)

Earthquake/Dragon's Stomp
Crystal Wave (20 cooldown...)
Churning Earth (guaranteed KD, nearby ... 30 cooldown AND 3 cast)
Magnetic Surge (10 cooldown, 2 cast)
Obsidian Flame (exhaustion)
Eruption - causes fleeing
Grasping earth (sort of, belongs on assassin/dervish)
Obsidian Flesh (overplayed)
Sliver armor
Stone Sheath
Stoneflesh aura
Stone striker
Unsteady Ground
Ward Against Melee
Ward of Stability
Ward of Weakness
Armor of Earth

Mind Blast
Meteor
Meteor Shower
Glyph of Immolation (used with armor ignoring spells)

Gale
Blinding Surge (tried this...see below)
Blinding Flash (B-surge is more effective...)
Gust (Gale isn't elite)
Whirlwind/Tenai's Wind (better on melee, such as Dervish)
Thunderclap? (Technobabble is better)

Glyph of Energy (only useful for 15-25 energy spells)
Glyph of Renewal (can be used on secondary just as well)
Glyph of Lesser Energy (only useful if using 15-25 energy spells, otherwise just as good on secondary)
Glyph of Restoration

Defensive Fire magic
12+1+3 Fire (12+1+2 if you are terrified of 450ish HP)
9+1 Energy storage
9 Protection Prayers
Rest in Healing

Armor: Blessed Insignias,Vigor,Vitae
Weapon with +20% Enchanting

1 Mind Blast
2 "You Move Like a Dwarf!"
3 Technobabble
4 Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support/Pain Inverter
5 Aegis/Shield of Absorption
6 Prot Spirit
7 Fire Attunement
8 Resurrection Skill of choice (Vengeance/Resurrection Chant usually)

So, why run an ele? Mind Blast is used here as fuel. Ether Renewal needs spells to be cast, this works with shouts. When Fire attunement goes down you're aren't entire screwed.

Utility fire magic:

12+1+3 Fire
10+1 Energy storage
8 Inspiration

Armor: Survivor/Blessed,Vigor,Vitae
Weapon with +60 HP

1 Mind Blast
2 "You Move Like a Dwarf!"
3 "Finish Him!"
4 Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support/Pain Inverter
5 Complicate/ Cry of Frustration
6 Leech Signet (for dealing with Vow Of Silence mobs)
7 Fire Attunement
8 Arcane Echo (use with Assassin)

Lyssa's Aura/Energy Drain/Tease don't output as much energy as Mind Blast. Signets don't get recharge reduction on mesmers, though Mantra of Inscriptions does reduce the recharge.

Water
12+1+1 water
12+1 energy storage

1 Deep Freeze
2 Blurred Vision
3 Snow Storm ( vs Destroyers)
4 Glyph of Lesser Energy
5 "You Move Like a Dwarf!"
6 Pain Inverter
7 Water Attunement
8 Res

Earth
12+1+1 Earth
12+1 Energy Storage

1 Unsteady Ground
2 Magnetic Surge/Eruption
3 Ward Against Melee
4 "You Move like a Dwarf!"
5 Pain Inverter
6 Glyph of Lesser Energy
7 Earth Attunement
8 Res

* consistently hits for 11 damage with the DoT AoEs on warriors/rangers in HM...also causes fleeing when mobs are hit with Eruption

Air, Offense
12+1+1 Air
12+1 Energy Storage

1 Blinding Surge
2 "You Move Like a Dwarf!"
3 Lightning Orb (to prep the Assassin)
4 Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support
5 Glyph of Lesser Energy (use with Orb to get energy for PvE skills)
6 Pain Inverter
7 Air attunement
8 Res of choice

* orb does about 60ish to warriors/rangers in HM
Air, Defense:

12+1+1 Air
9+1 Energy Storage
9 Protection Prayers

1 Blinding Surge
2 "You Move Like a Dwarf!"
3 Lightning Orb (pretty lame without assassin)
4 Prot Spirit
5 Glyph of Lesser Energy
6 Pain Inverter
7 Air attunement
8 Res of choice

Fire, Offense:
12+1+3 Fire
8+1 Energy Storage
10 Channeling

1 Mind Blast
2 Splinter Weapon
3 Ancestor's Rage
4 Vanguard Assassin Support/Pain Inverter
5 YMLAD
6 Fire attunement
7 Aura of Restoration
8 Res (Flesh of My flesh)

---------------------------------------------------------
Eles are still sub-optimal.

Skye Marin · Oct 11, 2010, 05:35 AM // 05:35

I still feel the best non-Ele Ele HM build is:

10+1+2 Fire Magic
10+1 Energy Storage
11 Deadly Arts

Glyph of Immolation
Assassin's Promise
"You Move Like a Dwarf!"
Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support
"Finish Him!"
Signet of Deadly Corruption
Glowing Gaze
Meteor

Mildly weak to heavy anti-hex mobs (Jade Brotherhood, etc), but works wonders with a Discord team. Has solid energy management, and some skills can be subbed in and out, depending on your preference.

Luminarus · Oct 11, 2010, 07:53 AM // 07:53

In HM whenever I run an ele this is the build I use (on a hero). Obviously, it could be altered to be a player with some pve skills.

Unsteady Ground
Churning Earth
Eruption
Earth Attunement
Ward Against Melee (or other ward in other areas)
Splinter Weapon
Ancestors Rage
Optional

The wards make nice defence, and when I get a mob stuck on the minions, and unsteady ground goes off they are all in there for pretty much the whole 5 seconds of it. Then with churning earth still going, when they try and leave they get knocked down again coz of hard modes inherant IMS.

Eruption is nice versus lots of rangers, but out of all the skills its probably the least useful. Could replace it and possibly the channeling skills with some nice pve skills.

However, on the whole I agree that eles arent that good. At the end of the day, id rather bring a Psychic Instability Mesmer (or panic), MM and SoS rit for most of the game in HM.

Crimson Robes · Oct 11, 2010, 09:32 AM // 09:32

I feel youre missing some high damage builds such as....

glyph of sacrifice => meteor shower => assassins promise
Mix this with some vanguard sin and maybe great dwarf weapon or by urals hammer and its kinda good

Also, whats with the you move like a dwarf fetish? Id rather take one of the vanguard wards or an asuran summon.

LifeInfusion · Oct 11, 2010, 02:10 PM // 14:10

glyph of sacrifice => meteor shower => assassins promise

Meteor shower does about 40-60 damage , in 3 second intervals...with adjacent range. The KDs aren't instant so the mobs can walk out of it. The whole idea is to get off the AP bandwagon, which in areas with hex removal and against Prophecies bosses, doesn't work so well.

I love YMLAD because it allows for kiting, can be used while moving, interrupts if it KDs, deals respectable armor ignoring damage, and triggers stuff like ash blast. Plus it has a low cooldown of 10 seconds, which is akin to the armor ignoring option of Magnetic Surge. There's been so many times I've Lightning Orb - YMLAD spiked a target that YMLAD never leaves my bar.

Great Dwarf weapon requires syncing with Barrage rangers or some other sort of physical (preferably one with scythe/whirlwind attack/death blossom/cyclone axe). When you play with hench/hero you can't use it well, since you have a range or paragon at best (no melee heros/hench). Plus it is better on ER eles.

Also I think this could be workable:

Wanna be a rit

8+1 energy storage (+27 energy, breakpoint for -15 energy cost)
11 Restoration Magic
11+1+1 Earth

1 Ward Against Melee
2 Ebon Vanguard Standard of Wisdom --> makes recharge of Breath of the Great Dwarf not suck so bad
3 Glyph of Energy
4 Soothing Memories
5 Protective was Kaolai
6 Breath of the Great Dwarf
7 Mend Body & Soul
8 Flesh of My Flesh

Why Ele? Because you don't have any downside from holding a pot, you still are sitting on 15 more energy than a Ritualist. Also, can't compare with UA divine healing.

Great Dwarf Weapon is a candidate, but it is better with ER.

Wanna be a bonder

8+1 energy storage (+27 energy, breakpoint for -15 energy cost)
11 Protection Prayers
11+1+3 Earth

1 Life Barrier (-42% damage) / Shield of Regeneration (-50% damage from armor accounting sources, redundant with Save Yourselves in the team)
2 Ward against melee/Aegis
3 Glyph of Lesser Energy
4 Stoneflesh Aura (-31)
5 Life Bond (Redirected damage is reduced by 23)
6 Breath of the Great Dwarf
7 Elemental Lord
8 Balthazar's Spirit

23+31=54 damage reduction, all hits under 93 reduced to 0 damage
With Elemental Lord, -33 --> 57 damage reduction to you , all hits under 98 reduced to 0

seems wasteful when you could just use ER + Prot bond and forgo the earth magic... but protective bond saps away ungodly amounts of energy.

P.S. I've run Assassin's Promise before and it feels like I'm playing a fake Assassin not an Ele.

Most builds pretty much have to hinge on the fact that you have 60 to 80 energy and Glyphs. That's the only reason to run Ele primary other than energy storage elites, Glowing Gaze/Glowing Ice, and Mind Blast...

Skye Marin · Oct 11, 2010, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Eles in HM have plenty of options, but few of them are pure Ele damage. This could be repaired with a tweak to Intensity:

10, 1/4, 20
For 20..30 seconds, your Elementalist spells have +3% Armor Penetration for every level your target foe is above 20.

LifeInfusion · Oct 11, 2010, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Just did Wanted:Vess in HM. My ele was able to spike for 112ish (14 air) on the casters. hexes didn't work because of bulk hex removal. My enchants went down very often due to Rend enchantment and Shatter enchantment spam.

Ran:
12+1+1 air
12+1 energy storage
3 Protection prayers

YMLAD
Lightning Orb
Ebon vanguard Assassin Support
Glyph of Lesser energy
Pain Inverter
Blinding Surge
Air attunement
Rebirth (backup)

same build in iron mines, 94 vs jade bow/white mantle seeker (ok), 99 vs jade armor (decent) with orb, 124 to mursaat necro/white mantle priest/mursaat ele, 80 vs white mantle zealot (shield)
Orb did 40ish to Ranger boss , 39 to necro boss (no idea how that happened, probably was protted by the white mantle priest)

No cracked armor:
37 vs jade bow when using b-surge
50 vs white mantle priest using b-surge (>47 listed)
38 vs jade armor using b-surge

These are numbers with 25% Armor penetration and cracked armor...basically everything possible to get ele damage to do something.

More data will follow.

EoTN mobs:
124 with orb (summit arcanist)
124 with orb (storm cloud incubus)
124 with orb (cloudtouched simian)
124 with orb (shadow vaettir)
112 with orb (berserking aurochs)
99 with orb (berserking wendigo)
99 with orb (bloodweaver)
94 with orb (jotun bloodcurdler)
86 with orb (berserking minotaur)
75 with orb (summit ranger)
72 wirh orb (icy stalagmite)
76 with orb (chromatic drake)

86 with orb (jotun skullsmasher)
94 with orb (jotun bladeturner)

0 with orb (Ceratadon with Armor of earth + Stoneflesh aura) --> just for kicks

38 with b-surge on berserking wendigo (no cracked armor)

going off this, the most is 124/94=1.319 times , or roughly 32% more than listed damage.

The question is for 9 energy (after air attunement), is that reasonable?

Mashiyu · Oct 12, 2010, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Defensive Fire magic
...snip...
Utility fire magic:
...snip...

Personally, I would drop Fire Attunement for GoLE - an attunement for only one skill (which is a energy management skill) doesn't make sense imo.

In areas with unreasonable big mob sizes (BLA, Exile) I run something like this:
ER
Earth Attunement
Water Attunement
Churning Earth
Eruption
Maelstorm
EBSoH | GoLE (although you shouldn't need additional energy)
EBSoW | Air of Superiority

Energy/Earth/Water: 16/9/9
Weapon: Spear/Sword/Axe with 20%Ench, 10%HSR
Focus: 10%HSR, 10%HCT or +30HP or +45HP/ench
Great support and if enough monsters die, Air of Superiority recharges all skills quite reliable. But i prefer EBSoW as other casters in the team profit from it. The build is weak in dungeons/missions where the group moves forward rather quickly.

LifeInfusion · Oct 12, 2010, 01:30 AM // 01:30

was running rodgort's on the mind blast bar, the fire attunement was left over. I was sitting there thinking, what if I used nothing but mind blast...?

It started out as

1 Mind Blast
2 Rodgort's Invocation
3 GoLE
4 YMLAD
5 Pain Inverter
6 Vanguard Assassin support
7 Aura of Restoration
7 Fire attunement
8 Res

For the bonding 90ish damage reduction, damage numbers from mobs in HM:
113 - 165 from lvl 30 cairn warrior boss (WiK)
100ish damage from hammer (jotun lvl 30)
172 mighty blow (lvl 30 jotun)

on 60 armor caster

P.S. about the AP meteor shower, I think Unsteady ground + Churning earth is more reliable, quicker to cast and gives more KDs.

Mouse at Large · Oct 12, 2010, 06:42 AM // 06:42

I have found from doing the legacy daily WiK bounties in HM that the following gets me through:-

Earth Attune
AoR
Unsteady Ground
Churning Earth
Eruption
EVAS
PI
Optional (Summon/YMLAD etc)

Works for me

LifeInfusion · Oct 12, 2010, 01:13 PM // 13:13

It's been a while, and the henchman update was something I missed: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20091022

We can use henches as a benchmark for how good a build is (in hard mode):

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kai_Ying
12 Earth Magic

Aura of Restoration
Dragon's Stomp
Earth Attunement
Stone Daggers spam without ER --> Magnetic Surge/Ash Blast to synergize with Unsteady Ground/Dragon Stomp
Unsteady Ground (elite)
Ward Against Melee
Resurrection Signet

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vincent_Evan

Air Attunement
Blinding Surge (elite)
Gale --> YMLAD
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Lightning Bolt --> switch to Orb
Flesh of My Flesh
Protective Was Kaolai
Weapon of Warding

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kisai

Air Attunement
Aura of Restoration
Arc Lightning
Gust --> YMLAD
Lightning Orb
Shock Arrow --> projectile which misses sometimes
Teinai's Prison
Resurrection Signet

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Cynn#Prophecies_henchman

Aura of Restoration
Elemental Attunement (elite)
Fire Attunement
Fireball
Immolate
Meteor
Rodgort's Invocation
Resurrection Signet

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Cynn#Nightfall_henchman

Aura of Restoration
Fire Attunement
Fireball
Glowing Gaze
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Searing Flames (elite)
Resurrection Signet

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Cynn#...North_Henchman

Aura of Restoration
Fire Attunement
Fireball
Liquid Flame
Meteor Shower
Mind Blast (elite)
"Never Surrender!"
Resurrection Signet

^ How not to use Mind blast...plus "Never Surrender!" is specced to low to be of use

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Luzy_Fiera

Aura of Restoration
Fire Attunement
Immolate
Meteor
Mind Blast (elite)
Rodgort's Invocation
Distortion
Resurrection Signet

Meanwhile, you have henches like Chiyo which actually do something in hard mode:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Chiyo
11 Channeling Magic, 12 Restoration Magic

Essence Strike
Flesh of My Flesh
Mend Body and Soul
Protective Was Kaolai
Signet of Spirits (elite)
Soothing Memories
Spirit Siphon
Vengeful Weapon

-------------------------------------------------
You have henches like Herta which use Sandstorm (purely damage AoE) in Hard Mode with Ebon Hawk (90 damage at 16, for 6 energy) + Stoning (109 damage at 16, for 9 energy). Unlike air magic, however, the numbers NEVER meet the listed damage, which means they are really not worth it, unless you consider Ward Against Melee good enough to bring her, even with the Sandstorm AoE scatter.

i.e.

Quote:

Magnetic Surge = Deals 15...63...75 damage if target foe is not enchanted; deals 30...102...120 damage if target foe is enchanted. (10,2,10)

Quote:

Obsidian Flame Deals 22...94...112 damage. You are Exhausted. (not sustainable) (5,2,5)

while mesmers have gained damage options

Quote:

Overload Hex Spell. (5 seconds.) Causes -1...3...3 Health degeneration. If target foe is using a skill, that foe and all adjacent foes take 15...63...75 damage. (5,0.25,5)

At the top end, 75 damage is superbly high. Couple this with Fast casting and you have non-interruptible 3 recharge Fireball.

Quote:

Wandering Eye. Hex Spell. (4 seconds.) Interrupts target foe's next attack. Interruption effect: 30...94...110 damage to nearby foes. (5,2,12)

Like Clumsiness, pure damage on a mesmer. For 5 energy, and ~10 recharge after fast cast.

Quote:

Wastrel's Worry Hex Spell. (3 seconds). End effect: causes 20...84...100 damage to target and adjacent foes. No effect and ends early if target foe uses a skill. (5,0.25,1)

high damage, adjacent range...impossible to interrupt. The 1 recharge is insane.

Quote:

Wastrel's Demise Hex Spell. (5 seconds.) Each second while hexed, target foe and all foes adjacent to that foe take 1...8...10 damage. Foes take +1...8...10 damage each second this hex is in effect. Ends early if target foe uses a skill. (5,0.25,3)

adjacent range nuke that doesn't cause fleeing, outputting 120-150 damage.

Quote:

Spiritual Pain Spell. Deals 15...63...75 damage. Deals 25...105...125 damage to hostile summoned creatures in the area of your target foe. (5,1,7)

Single target damage on ~5 recharge after fast casting. Awesome conditional

Quote:

Ineptitude (4 seconds.) Also hexes foes adjacent to target. Deals 30...114...135 damage. Inflicts Blindness condition (10 seconds). No effect unless target foe attacks. (10,1,15)

Can deal with it, since it is elite. Damage is still ridiculously high, but it is adjacent range. Down to about 10-12 recharge under moderate 8-9 Fast Casting.

Quote:

Clumsiness Also hexes adjacent foes. Interrupts next attack. Interruption effect: deals 10...76...92 damage. (10,2,8)

which also has damage mitigation.

adjacent range. Down to about 6 recharge under moderate fast casting (8-9 FC), which is less than Fireball.

Quote:

Cry of Frustration Spell. If target foe is using a skill, that foe and all foes in the area are interrupted and take 15...63...75 damage. (10,0.25,15)

Since the change to 10 energy, outdoes basically every pure damage AoE elementalists have since it is damage mitigation and in the area (Liquid Flame, fireball are sad compared to this)

Quote:

Signet of Clumsiness Signet. Interrupts an attack for target foe and all adjacent foes. Interruption effect: deals 15...51...60 damage; knocks down foes using attack skills. (0,0.25,8)

damage wasn't enough, a conditional KD too. Makes Lightning Javelin sad.

Quote:

Mistrust (6 seconds.) The next spell that target foe casts on one of your allies fails and deals 30...114...135 damage to target and nearby foes. (10,2,12)

Quote:

Accumulated Pain Deals 15...63...75 damage. Inflicts Deep Wound condition (5...17...20 seconds) if target foe has 2 or more hexes. (5,2,12)

Deep wound on a caster.

Quote:

Energy Surge Causes 1...8...10 Energy loss. Deals 9 damage to target and nearby foes of each point of Energy lost.

~90 damage but it's elite

Quote:

Unnatural Signet. Signet. Deals 15...63...75 damage. Deals 5...41...50 damage to other adjacent foes if the target is hexed or enchanted. (0,1,10)

Easily met condition

Quote:

Images of Remorse. Hex Spell. (5...9...10 seconds.) Causes -1...3...3 Health degeneration. Initial effect: 10...44...52 damage if target foe is attacking. (5,2,5)

Attacking for mobs means "if alive".

Cuilan · Oct 12, 2010, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Now you compare henchman to human players. A lot of those skills can easily trigger as they can easily not trigger. Now if you want to compare henchman to henchman, mesmer henchman aren't good at telling a difference between a caster or a non-caster. GvG isn't hard mode PvE and also forgot one of my favorite EotN henchman Herta.

LifeInfusion · Oct 12, 2010, 10:09 PM // 22:09

more damage numbers:
75 with orb on kournan bowman
112 with orb on kournan zealot
92 kournan elite guard
80 kournan guard
124 kournan seer
125 kournan oppressor
69 on taskmaster lvl 30
80 on taskmaster vanahk
124 on elite scribe
99 grawl champion, demagogue
99 tumbled elemental ... 198 when it is heal sig

15 air (after grail of might's +1 air magic)
86 charr axemaster (grail of might)
146 ominous ooze (grail)
105 magma blister (grail)
86 charr shadow blade (grail)
124 grawl dark priest (grail)
132 fleshreaver harrower (grail)
132 charr defiler (grail)
146 fleashreaver hound (grail)
100 fleshreaver nephilim (grail)

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Now you compare henchman to human players. A lot of those skills can easily trigger as they can easily not trigger. Now if you want to compare henchman to henchman, mesmer henchman aren't good at telling a difference between a caster or a non-caster. GvG isn't hard mode PvE and also forgot one of my favorite EotN henchman Herta.

Wasn't comparing the henchman to human players. I was saying how most of the henches don't have skills worth using in HM, and using them as a benchmark for how much mileage you can get out of an ele.

The section on mesmer skills was just putting numbers for the elementalist pure damage skills to be worthwhile, as most of the elementalist damage doesn't have any other significant effect (B-surge, Unsteady ground, meteor, etc. are exceptions).

Herta's skillset is pretty bad in Hardmode and I mentioned her:
Sandstorm,Ward against melee, Stoning, ebon hawk, Glowstone...of these only Ward is anything special. Sandstorm causes fleeing.

Quote:

Utility fire magic:

12+1+3 Fire
10+1 Energy storage
8 Inspiration

Armor: Survivor/Blessed,Vigor,Vitae
Weapon with +60 HP

1 Mind Blast
2 "You Move Like a Dwarf!"
3 "Finish Him!"
4 Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support/Pain Inverter
5 Complicate/ Cry of Frustration
6 Leech Signet (for dealing with Vow Of Silence mobs)
7 Fire Attunement
8 Arcane Echo (use with Assassin)

Ditch this, since Inspiration has too much energy return, and no spammy skill to go with insane energy gain... problem is all mesmer spells have shortened cast & recharge but e/me doesn't. Signets have no benefit with mind blast.

Also: can swap in ash bast instead of magnetic surge /Eruption, for synergy with Unsteady ground + YMLAD.

Cuilan · Oct 13, 2010, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

We can use henches as a benchmark for how good a build is (in hard mode)

Then I don't get your post. Sandstorm is fine. Henchman never had amazing bars.

Frozen Ele · Oct 14, 2010, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mashiyu

In areas with unreasonable big mob sizes (BLA, Exile) I run something like this:
ER
Earth Attunement
Water Attunement
Churning Earth
Eruption
Maelstorm
EBSoH | GoLE (although you shouldn't need additional energy)
EBSoW | Air of Superiority

Energy/Earth/Water: 16/9/9
Weapon: Spear/Sword/Axe with 20%Ench, 10%HSR
Focus: 10%HSR, 10%HCT or +30HP or +45HP/ench
Great support and if enough monsters die, Air of Superiority recharges all skills quite reliable. But i prefer EBSoW as other casters in the team profit from it. The build is weak in dungeons/missions where the group moves forward rather quickly.

I sometimes run something similar, but:

Earth Attunement
Water Attunement
Churning Earth
Unsteady Ground
Deep Freeze
Maelstorm
GoLE
Standard of Honor

Energy/Earth/Water: 9 (8+1)/14 (12+2)/13 (10+2+1)

Jeydra · Oct 14, 2010, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen Ele

I sometimes run something similar, but:

Earth Attunement
Water Attunement
Churning Earth
Unsteady Ground
Deep Freeze
Maelstorm
GoLE
Standard of Honor

Energy/Earth/Water: 9 (8+1)/14 (12+2)/13 (10+2+1)

Interesting build, especially since I was thinking along these lines earlier today lol. I do think it can be improved however. Unsteady Ground's effect isn't enough to warrant the elite slot.

How about:

Elemental Attunement - it is dual elements; this saves one slot
Eruption - this replaces Unsteady Ground
Snow Storm
Deep Freeze
Maelstrom
GoLE
EBSoH
"By Ural's Hammer!"

BUH should add even more damage that's easy to get, since you do not need to stand and cast 2s or 1s spells. Elemental Attunement should provide more energy than Water and Earth Attunement. Eruption, although it costs more, should be amply compensated for by Elemental Attunement. A danger is the 3 25e spells on the bar, but then with the long recharge on the AoE nukes it might still suffice. Snow Storm is probably better than Churning Earth, especially with Deep Freeze.

It's a pity that you can't output massive AoE constantly, if not due to the energy costs, then due to the long recharges.

Klance · Oct 14, 2010, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Air of Superiority maybe in the hopes of getting random instant recharge? Too bad it takes a PvE slot though.

LifeInfusion · Oct 15, 2010, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Interesting build, especially since I was thinking along these lines earlier today lol. I do think it can be improved however. Unsteady Ground's effect isn't enough to warrant the elite slot.

I like snow storm against destroyers, but everywhere else it is just an adjacent range 10 recharge AoE...like Breath of Fire but faster recharging and casting. With all the adjacent range hexes necros and mesmers have, I like to think that nearby range warrants use of an elementalist. Any build that hinges on a skill that can be run on a Mesmer or necro really isn't an ele build. Thats what makes Searing Flames an ele build, Glowing Gaze needs energy storage. Ether renewal is an energy storage skill, so it's an ele build. Snowstorm really isn't an ele skill, it's a better version of all the DoT AoEs with no extra effects.

What would you think warrants an elite status? I think nearby range KDs for 5 seconds of 20 seconds is rather decent, with the added 40 damage per second at 15 earth. The damage is in line with Searing heat/Teinai's heat which is 40 damage at 15 fire (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Searing_Heat). The damage isn't the focus, since SS does 37 at 16, 41 at 18 (Awaken the blood) without counting the damage lost due to armor, while Mark of Pain does 42-46 (16-18 curses). Even Splinter weapon puts out better numbers, with 41 damage at 12 channeling, although once again it is adjacent range. (In most areas where you don't have more than a few targets splinter outdoes the AoEs). Elementalists are the only ones with readily accessible ranged AoE knockdown (Earthquake, Meteor, Meteor Shower) ...at least before Psychic instability was buffed to its current state. On the contrary, in terms of single target knockdowns, there's no incentive to use skills like Gale when you have YMLAD.

Eruption is nice, but it causes fleeing and condition removal is a counter (Antidote signet is actually seen quite a bit on rangers: I notice when I use blinding-surge). Unsteady ground pretty much means they stop attacking, whereas Churning earth only works when the mobs are trying to move. So Unsteady ground is damage mitigation.

I'm not a fan of 25 energy skills because if you get interrupted then there's no energy return from attunements and that means 19 seconds of energy gain have been wasted. That's really not as big a deal if you're running Mind Blast though.

At the end of the day, all I want to see is the elementalist having something unequivocally of its own that isn't a gimmick (ER isn't using ele skills and searing flames is not a flexible bar). For the longest time Me/Es have been the rage, whether it is fast cast nukers or whatnot (blinding surge with fast casting abuse in PVP). Necros have minions (Rt/N minionbombers never were able to pull off 10 minions and can't pump up death nova). (SS can be run on anything, it just does a bit less damage) Rits have communing spirits (spawning power has Soul Twisting, Ritual Lord, etc.). Mesmer spells belong on mesmers since they have innate recharge reduction and cast time reduction. (i.e. trying to run Diversion or Empathy on a Necro will result in longer cast times with less attribute levels). Monks have the entire divine favor line: UA, HB, Divine healing, etc., which does something useful towards their main use.

Regardless, I will be doing more damage results in the near future with orb. Meanwhile the elementalist bosses are having a fun time doing 200-500 damage to players. Cracked armor and armor penetration are basically the suggestions for Elemental damage, but sometimes they aren't enough (see Orb numbers). A 25 energy elementalist skill has to be comparable to a 15 energy caster skill, 15 energy has to be comparable to a 10 energy skill, 10 energy skills have to be comparable to 5 energy skills (since we count attunements, i.e. an excuse to run 7 slots instead of 8).

Jeydra · Oct 16, 2010, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Build didn't work, not enough energy. I think it might be better to go Fire instead of Earth, using Breath of Fire + Searing Heat and dropping Maelstrom.

Snow Storm is a better DoT AoE, that's why you run it ...
Unsteady Ground may KD but the aim I had for the bar is damage, not KDs. I feel Unsteady Ground is quite a weak elite anyway because Eruption mitigates damage better. Of course in every other area except BLA, you might as well run Aegis. DoT AoE is weak in general anyway unless you can hit massive mobs ...
DoT AoE is always going to cause fleeing. That's why the build is aimed at BLA, where there are so many foes it doesn't matter. It might work well in Urgoz as well, although I haven't been there for so long I don't remember.

WhiteAsIce · Oct 20, 2010, 07:29 AM // 07:29

My modified AP Fire build:

Fire 12+1+1...3
Deadly Arts 10
ES 8+1
---
Searing Heat
Teinai's Heat
Glyph of Lesser Energy
"By Ural's Hammer!"
Assassin's Promise
"Finish Him!"
Ebon Battle Standard of Honor
Fire Attunement

Foes have high AL in HM, but AL means nothing against EBSoH and BUH! Against a level 26 monk foe in HM, the Heats do 58 damage per hit. If you have a party member throwing Cracked Armor around, that number goes up. Needs a snare for best results.
The usage: place EBSoH, use GoLE, Heat, BUH as soon as the first Heat casts, second Heat, AP when foe is below 50% health, FH! as soon as AP casts

---------

Also noticed a few of you testing damage on WiK foes in HM. Did you know that these foes have the same AL in HM as they do in NM? It's strange, but WiK is the only place in the entire world where an Ele will be better in HM than anywhere else.