Curse

LifeInfusion · Dec 12, 2010, 02:35 AM // 02:35

For people not Cuilan: His build was Invoke Lightning, Lightning Orb, glyph of Elemental Power, Air attunement, BUH!, Elemental Lord, Intensity, Aura of Restoration.

Anything less than 80 damage is /facepalm since it's pure damage with no utility whatsover, on an enchantment reliant build. Overload is 5 energy and does 75.

And why would I run Invoke over Energy surge/Ineptitude+ Clumsiness+wandering eye spam mesmer? At least it's reliably bad. And you don't need a superior rune, 3 enchants + a Pve Shout to make it do respectable damage.

Ineptitude is 10/1/15, deals 130 semi-reliably, has blind (utility), is in the same attribute as Arcane Conundrum (e-management+ caster shutdown)...

Quote:

Right now I can run "fake elementalist" builds, akin to a Fast Cast nuker Me/E: 12+1+1 or 12+1+3 Domination, 8+1 Fast Casting, 10+1 Inspiration: Overload, Energy Surge, Wastrel's Demise, Wastrel's Worry, Cry of Frustration,Mistrust,Spiritual Pain/Unnatural Signet, Res (this is not realistic since there are no energy management skills, but if you swap out 2 skills for Power Drain/Leech Signet and Waste Not, Want Not you're good to go)

or: 12+1+1 or 12+1+3 Illusion, 10+1 Fast Casting, 8+1 Inspiration: Ineptitude, Clumsiness, Wandering Eye, Signet of Clumsiness,Images of Remorse,Accumulated Pain,Calculated Risk,Res

from my "controversial" wiki post http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb..._damage_skills

Keep in mind Clumsiness is less than 8 cooldown with that high a Fast Casting. If it fails, who cares?

Cuilan · Dec 12, 2010, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Because Ineptitude really sucks in some areas and on some foes. And in your quote you're listing skills that do less damage or require other skills to do anything.

The average elementalist build your average elementalist player uses lacks utility and this thread is about damage.

So okay, nerf mesmers. Then you still have dervish (enchant reliant oh noes), assassins, warriors, necromancers, and ritualists who out nuke or damage.

Mouse at Large · Dec 12, 2010, 11:12 AM // 11:12

In my opinion, the Ele class should be at it's best in PvE when doing DoTAoE. That role has been taken over by mesmers and necros especially due to the armour ignoring skills they now have.

I'm not entirely against giving some single target spells some love as well, but unless you are looking at the secondary effects of single target spells as the main benefit (blind/cracked armour/burning etc.) they are comprehensively out damaged by just about any "offensive" class.

I hear the arguements about power-creep, but selfishly, I really don't care too much. And if any change to ele mechanics either via Intensity or another tweak makes HM a bit more challenging, so be it

Xenomortis · Dec 12, 2010, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse at Large

In my opinion, the Ele class should be at it's best in PvE when doing DoTAoE. That role has been taken over by mesmers and necros especially due to the armour ignoring skills they now have.

If you made that the Eles best, then the Ele would be pathetic.

Lord Mip · Dec 12, 2010, 04:47 PM // 16:47

I don't think Intensity should increase spell damage. It should only increase spell armor penetration to make armor affected damage more on par with armor ignoring damage. That way Elementalists do not get essentially stronger (AP Caller/SoS still works fine) but it makes it so that Elementalists have a wider choice of playstyles, instead of being limited to a bar which is in support of their PvE skills, which seems to be the case at the moment.

And please tie the duration to Energy Storage, so that other professions don't get massively buffed by this change. (A good way in which that is done is Critical Agility. Would love to see something like that)

Mouse at Large · Dec 12, 2010, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

If you made that the Eles best, then the Ele would be pathetic.

Care to elaborate? I'm looking at eles from the perspective of a "nuking" class against multiple foes as a primary role with single target damage as a secondary role.

Where are you coming from?

Xenomortis · Dec 12, 2010, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse at Large

Care to elaborate? I'm looking at eles from the perspective of a "nuking" class against multiple foes as a primary role with single target damage as a secondary role.

But this role is more or less pathetic in PvE.
It has uses with caster heroes because heroes are crap physicals and in SC teams where you have about 6 people nuking the shit out of a ball carefully constructed by a tank.

LifeInfusion · Dec 12, 2010, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Without balling nearby AoE hits maybe 3-5 things. If I wanted PBAOE I'd run a sin with Death Blossom or a sin/warrior scythe, SoH smite, and a rit with splinter. At least you don't need to wait for cooldown (have you looked at the PBAOE cooldowns?) and you won't be on 60 armor (70 with blessed).

EDIT: For PBAOE DOT even Symbol of wrath, or Balthazar's aura (which do about 30DPS). Ranged wise you have RoJ, chaos storm (or any class with Snow storm).

PBAOE (not DOT):
Earth:Aftershock, Crystal Wave, Shockwave, Teinai's Crystals, Sliver armor (kind of)
Fire: Double Dragon, Star burst, Flame burst, Flame djinn's haste, Inferno
Water: Frozen Burst
Air: Teinai's Wind, Whirlwind

DOT: Lava font, Bed of Coals

Jeydra · Dec 13, 2010, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

For people not Cuilan: His build was Invoke Lightning, Lightning Orb, glyph of Elemental Power, Air attunement, BUH!, Elemental Lord, Intensity, Aura of Restoration.

Rofl.

He should drop Air Attunement for Chain Lightning and get an ally to bring both EBSoH and BiP and EBSoW and Weaken Armour and a conset and hack ANet's random number generator so he keeps getting HSRs on Intensity, and then claim Elementalists deal big damage in PvE!!1!

Cuilan · Dec 13, 2010, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Rofl.
Elementalists deal big damage in PvE!!1!

It had Chain Lightning and he wanted stuff that did "decent" damage of "80" at least for spells. Never claimed elementalist were some elite damage dealer in PvE and it was Invoke Lightning that was in much discussion. Feel free to ask LifeInfusion for his more used builds.

Mentioning all those additional skills, yet physicals use a ton of skills to get their DPS and single hits really high. And? I know you have me on your ignore list on this forum, but don't go around acting as if I don't know what physicals or their synergy friends can do.

Mouse at Large · Dec 13, 2010, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Personally, I kind of agree that currently DoTAoE in HM has lost it's effectiveness. My point was to restore it's effectiveness. I do feel that it's almost an eles "core" mechanic - i.e. standing outside the main physical/mob radius and hitting more than one target at a time.

IMHO, PBAoE has pretty much been relegated to farming and niche builds.

If single party ranged damage and PBAoE benefit as well, then it's all good

Kunder · Dec 13, 2010, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Since the damage formula currently just lets an x level character hit an x*3 armor character for full damage, why not simply have intensity scale your level-dependent armor penetration by 3x the enemy's level difference? This is, AFAIK, the formula that pretty closely approximates the armor of everything in Guild Wars (lvl 20s having 60 armor + profession bonus, lvl 30s having 90 armor + class bonus, etc). By doing this we take out the enemy level as a part of the equation.

To make up for the fact that we are forcing a slot onto every bar just to stay even with monster levels, make intensity also act as a universal attunement (for all spells, not just elemental spells perhaps?). Or maybe we could bump the armor penetration scalar to 4x, giving a 20% bonus ontop of the prior changes to level 30s while not overpowering the spell too much against lower levels, since level 20s won't be affected at all. The main thing I want to avoid doing of course is avoid making the spells massively overpowered against level 20s, where eles aren't struggling as it is and where a flat % armor penetration or damage buff would just let SF practically one hit KO entire mobs. Overall it's still not quite good as the current crop of overpowered stuff that exists, but IMO those builds should be nerfed anyway. I would love to see a return to sane damage levels in PvE.