Curse

Kaida the Heartless · Feb 19, 2011, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Why do Ele's feel they deserve MoP level damage without the drawbacks?

Stick with Fire and Earth spells. Water and Lightning are for PvP. Make sure your foes have cracked armor. Quit casting on Warriors. It's not complicated.

Also, quit trying to turn Lightning Orb into an AoE attack. Stick with your money skills like Searing Flames and Intensify them. AoE hitting for more AoE is good. Ele's have plenty of high damage skills to pair with Intensity.

Searing Flames hitting 5 targets on ONE cast is 70 armor-ignoring DPS in a HUGE area. Subsequent casts only increase this number. It takes Fire Attunement and Glyph of Lesser Energy to support it. In fact, off the top of my head:
(Elemental Lord + Fire Attunement + Glyph of Lesser) Intensity --> Rodgort's Invocation --> Searing Flames --> Glowing Gaze --> Searing Flames
This is a HUGE 5 second opener with maintainable DPS afterward that is even ready to repeat in 10 seconds for the next mob. There's even an open slot for you to stick whatever terrible skill you want to lower your DPS so you can still complain that your damage is terrible. I guarantee most of you weren't even abusing "By Ural's Hammer!" when it was available. If you use terrible skills, you will deal terrible damage.

Yes, I agree Elementalists need a slight boost in damage or at least a more available source of cracked armor, but it's not the end of the world. Your damage doesn't require the planets align to be decent like a few other classes; it is consistently good when used properly.

Jeydra · Feb 19, 2011, 07:59 AM // 07:59

@Kunder - you're overstating the problem. Elemental spells lose about 50% of their damage after HM armour (more against heavily armoured foes, less against less armoured foes), not 75%. It's very possible to hit more than 100 damage per spell in HM after support. It's actually possible to hit more than 100 damage per spell without support too, Lightning Orb on most caster targets will achieve that.

I increasingly think Intensity is one of those skills which would be great if you could put it on a hero, but there are better options on a human. Intensity has lots of drawbacks. As expected the most major one is going Elemental, which immediately removes lots of options. YMLAD, EBVAS and FH are all extremely powerful skills, none of which are nearly as powerful without AP. Granted, Intensity does not force you to not use AP, but even with AP there's a major power difference if using only two out of those three skills.

With Intensity, you are a lot less vulnerable to hex removal and interrupts, but you are also a lot more vulnerable to enchantment strips. Losing the Attunement is an instant death sentence to energy. Even with the Attunement my build loses energy gradually, and that's with Attunement + GoLE + Elemental Lord. Fortunately with 13 Energy Storage it takes a while to drain and doesn't drain completely, and recently I started using Claude / Eve etc with Blood Ritual.

Intensity's AoE potential should not be underestimated; I've hit ~80 AoE damage to 5+ monsters with it once. But it should not be overestimated either; it's only reliable if you have a quick-casting nuke on hand (with 2s casts, mobs may scatter before you finish casting). Lightning Orb is less reliable without YMLAD too. When the mobs aren't clustered for whatever reason, Intensity is completely useless. EBSoH kinda goes against balling mobs up as well. You can pre-cast it and then pull, but that tends to split mobs up not hold them together.

Still to test: Searing Flames + Intensity (don't have high hopes on this one however), and AP Fire + Intensity (don't have high hopes on this one either).

@above - pre-remake Intensity sure was maintainable DPS, wasn't it?

EDIT: I'm seeing something strange. Does Intensity's AoE damage depend on the target's armour or not? I seem to be seeing both. Will have to test this clearly another time.

UnChosen · Feb 19, 2011, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Why do Ele's feel they deserve MoP level damage without the drawbacks?

Without the drawback? What happened to 15+ energy, needing 3 e-management skills (In which the most important one is just begging to be stripped), 2+ second cast time, 20+ second recharge for almost everything, the utter lack of useful utilities or buffs (Blind / Snare are crap utilities) without using some other classes' stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Stick with Fire and Earth spells. Water and Lightning are for PvP. Make sure your foes have cracked armor. Quit casting on Warriors. It's not complicated.

Fire Attunement
Aura of Restoration
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Weaken Armor
Elemental Lord / EBSoH / Too bad BuH is nerfed
Intensity
Deep Freeze
Rez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Also, quit trying to turn Lightning Orb into an AoE attack. Stick with your money skills like Searing Flames and Intensify them. AoE hitting for more AoE is good. Ele's have plenty of high damage skills to pair with Intensity.

Plenty of high damage skills that becomes low damage once armor is taken into account.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

I guarantee most of you weren't even abusing "By Ural's Hammer!" when it was available. If you use terrible skills, you will deal terrible damage.

"By Ural's Hammer!" was a PvE skills which boost EVERYONE's damage, therefore, it is utterly pointless to "abuse" it because everyone else abuse it even better...to the point where its now nerfed.

Jeydra · Feb 19, 2011, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Lol Intensity is nonsense ... look at these two screenshots:

http://img524.imageshack.us/i/gw001b.jpg/
http://img217.imageshack.us/i/gw002t.jpg/

The dummies are arranged in AL 60, 80, 100 and 60 from left to right.
Rodgort's @ 16 Fire hits them respectively for 127 damage, 90 damage, 64 damage and 127 damage.

In the first screenshot, a target not hit by Rodgort's Invocation (which has nearby range, same as Intensity) is somehow hit by Intensity; in the second, only one tick of Intensity triggers even though Rodgort's hits three targets - and Intensity triggers on Rodgort's target.

The images are inconsistent. In the first, Intensity does damage equal to the splash on the AL 80 target, while in the second Intensity does damage equal to the splash on the AL 60 target.

Lol Intensity!! I'll report this bug to ANet.

Khomet Si Netjer · Feb 19, 2011, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Lol Intensity is nonsense ... look at these two screenshots:

http://img524.imageshack.us/i/gw001b.jpg/
http://img217.imageshack.us/i/gw002t.jpg/

The dummies are arranged in AL 60, 80, 100 and 60 from left to right.
Rodgort's @ 16 Fire hits them respectively for 127 damage, 90 damage, 64 damage and 127 damage.

In the first screenshot, a target not hit by Rodgort's Invocation (which has nearby range, same as Intensity) is somehow hit by Intensity; in the second, only one tick of Intensity triggers even though Rodgort's hits three targets - and Intensity triggers on Rodgort's target.

The images are inconsistent. In the first, Intensity does damage equal to the splash on the AL 80 target, while in the second Intensity does damage equal to the splash on the AL 60 target.

Lol Intensity!! I'll report this bug to ANet.

That is pretty strange... also in the 2nd screen there is a -63 and a -64. rounding error? I noticed some things like these when I was blasting the target dummies. Rodgort's (or whatever spell) hit 5 targets and I only saw 4 damage packets from intensity, even though both have "nearby" blast range. I think this is explained by effect description for Intensity:

Skill. (10 seconds.) The next time you deal elemental damage with a spell to a target, you deal 40...50% of that damage to all other nearby foes.

So what I saw on the target dummies appears to be the correct behavior. I also noticed that the damage numbers didn't necessarily float that close to the target they were associated with, especially when there are a lot of numbers on the screen.

LifeInfusion · Feb 19, 2011, 07:14 PM // 19:14

I wouldn't use Intensity with anything other than Lightning orb or Shell Shock/Weaken armor +Invoke. There's no other way to get consistent damage.

127 from Rodgort's , even with cracked armor, is only going to be max 127. Orb/Invoke have potential to hit for 140 (from testing even though 1.2968x damage is for 60 armor targets which means 137). If you run Elemental lord, Glyph of elemental power, 124*1.32=164.

The only way to push 140 from Rodgort's is to run Glyph of elemental Power, which means you need Mind Blast or Dual attune to power it rather than a simple Glyph of Lesser Energy.

Ironically, if you just run Orb + Intensity+Invoke you're better off with a Keystone signet mesmer (60ish damage armor ignoring) or a clumsiness/wandering eye/cry of pain/ineptitude spammer. It will be more consistent and more often than every 10 seconds (or 4-5 if you count Invoke AOE). Hell, you can even use AoHM + enchant spam to get 50DPS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Without the drawback? What happened to 15+ energy, needing 3 e-management skills (In which the most important one is just begging to be stripped), 2+ second cast time, 20+ second recharge for almost everything, the utter lack of useful utilities or buffs (Blind / Snare are crap utilities) without using some other classes' stuff.

Fire Attunement
Aura of Restoration
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Weaken Armor
Elemental Lord / EBSoH / Too bad BuH is nerfed
Intensity
Deep Freeze
Rez

I loled. That's pretty spot on for what you need for a DOT AOE. You can get by weaken armor by bringing it on a necro.

1 Fire Attunement
2 Aura of Restoration <--1 energy isn't a make or break
3 Glyph of Lesser Energy
4 Weaken Armor <-- necro hero
5 Elemental Lord / EBSoH / Too bad BuH is nerfed
6 Intensity
7 Deep Freeze
8 Rez <-- optional

which leaves
1 Attune
2 GOLE
3 Deep Freeze
4 Ele Lord/EBSoH
5 Snow storm or whatever DOT
6 FH or other?
7 ?
8 ?

MoP needs only AP+MoP+snare (only if you don't get a clean spike). Never mind that DOTs tend to be 20-30 seconds, which is more than the base recharge on MoP , sans anything. Even if you run EBSoH you need to push 25 from the base damage of the AoE to get 40DPS whereas MoP is always 34 at 12, 42 at 16, 46 with awaken the blood.

Chthon · Feb 19, 2011, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Lol Intensity is nonsense ... look at these two screenshots:

http://img524.imageshack.us/i/gw001b.jpg/
http://img217.imageshack.us/i/gw002t.jpg/

The dummies are arranged in AL 60, 80, 100 and 60 from left to right.
Rodgort's @ 16 Fire hits them respectively for 127 damage, 90 damage, 64 damage and 127 damage.

In the first screenshot, a target not hit by Rodgort's Invocation (which has nearby range, same as Intensity) is somehow hit by Intensity; in the second, only one tick of Intensity triggers even though Rodgort's hits three targets - and Intensity triggers on Rodgort's target.

The images are inconsistent. In the first, Intensity does damage equal to the splash on the AL 80 target, while in the second Intensity does damage equal to the splash on the AL 60 target.

Lol Intensity!! I'll report this bug to ANet.

My guess is that Rodgorts hit two different targets "first" in your two tests. I've never understood how GW prioritized "simultaneous" events, and I wouldn't be surprised if the behavior not consistent from a player standpoint.

Kaida the Heartless · Feb 19, 2011, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Yeah, and MoP takes a team of physical damage dealers to abuse properly. Oh, that AP+MoP+EVA build? Lets do some math!:

We'll say curses is at 16 spec like normal, and the target gets hit 5 times before scatter occurs. Thats 210 Adjacent AoE damage. We'll say 3 targets are hit (remember, your target isn't included). Thats 630 Damage. This happens in about 5 seconds for 126 DPS. Now, we also need "You Move Like a Dwarf!" and "Finish Him!" to make sure that our primary AP target doesn't move and gets killed to recharge MoP.

If the target is successfully killed in time:
Time to let enemies ball again (~5 seconds) + 5 second time to nuke: 63 DPS from MoP
Add DPS from other skills involved (YMLaD, EVA, FH): 63 DPS + 8 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 8 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 10 DPS (EVA) =
89 DPS

If the target is not killed in time (or just MoP with no AP):
Time to let enemies ball again is less than time for MoP to recharge, so new time is 30 seconds + 5 seconds to nuke: 18 DPS
Add DPS from other skills involved (YMLaD, EVA, FH): 18 DPS + 2.6 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 2.6 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 6 DPS (EVA) =
29.2 DPS

Thats 89 DPS average, assuming everything goes right (assassin attacks correct target/lives long enough, enemies stay balled for a decent moment, AP/EVA/MoP are not interrupted, AP isn't removed, target is killed in time for a recharge). The build drops to 29.2 DPS if any of the above occurs. Five skills, three of which are PvE, are required to achieve this!

Searing Flames, one cast in the middle of a mob hitting 5 foes is 70 armor ignoring DPS (14 DPS from burning x 5). You need Fire Attunement, Glyph of Lesser Energy, and I'll even add Elemental Lord or Aura of Restoration for the cover. Thats 4 skills, 1 of which MIGHT be a PvE skill, for a much easier 70 DPS.

And for those of you complaining that 2 seconds is too long to cast:
AP = 3/4 second + aftercast
Mark of Pain = 1 second
EVA = 1 second
Total = ~3 seconds for MoP nuke

Furthermore, you complain about bad damage because there are people in this thread suggesting things like Lightning Orb for use with Intensity.
Lightning Orb does 140 generous damage + (50% x 5 foes) = 490 damage
Rodgort's Invocation does 90 damage (x5 foes) + (50% x 5 foes) = 450 + 225 = 675 damage

No wonder your damage sucks. Removing the AoE aspect from a skill to get minimal max damage on your multiplier is pointless because you are ALREADY REMOVING THE AOE. Stick with Fire and Earth in PvE.

Searing Flames [E]
Rodgort's Invocation
Glowing Gaze
Fire Attunement
Elemental Lord [PvE]
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Intensity [PvE]
???

Run that.

Essence Snow · Feb 19, 2011, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Yeah, and MoP takes a team of physical damage dealers to abuse properly. Oh, that AP+MoP+EVA build? Lets do some math!:

We'll say curses is at 16 spec like normal, and the target gets hit 5 times before scatter occurs. Thats 210 Adjacent AoE damage. We'll say 3 targets are hit (remember, your target isn't included). Thats 630 Damage. This happens in about 5 seconds for 126 DPS. Now, we also need "You Move Like a Dwarf!" and "Finish Him!" to make sure that our primary AP target doesn't move and gets killed to recharge MoP.

If the target is successfully killed in time:
Time to let enemies ball again (~5 seconds) + 5 second time to nuke: 63 DPS from MoP
Add DPS from other skills involved (YMLaD, EVA, FH): 63 DPS + 8 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 8 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 10 DPS (EVA) =
89 DPS

If the target is not killed in time (or just MoP with no AP):
Time to let enemies ball again is less than time for MoP to recharge, so new time is 30 seconds + 5 seconds to nuke: 18 DPS
Add DPS from other skills involved (YMLaD, EVA, FH): 18 DPS + 2.6 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 2.6 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 6 DPS (EVA) =
29.2 DPS

Thats 89 DPS average, assuming everything goes right (assassin attacks correct target/lives long enough, enemies stay balled for a decent moment, AP/EVA/MoP are not interrupted, AP isn't removed, target is killed in time for a recharge). The build drops to 29.2 DPS if any of the above occurs. Five skills, three of which are PvE, are required to achieve this!

Searing Flames, one cast in the middle of a mob hitting 5 foes is 70 armor ignoring DPS (14 DPS from burning x 5). You need Fire Attunement, Glyph of Lesser Energy, and I'll even add Elemental Lord or Aura of Restoration for the cover. Thats 4 skills, 1 of which MIGHT be a PvE skill, for a much easier 70 DPS.

And for those of you complaining that 2 seconds is too long to cast:
AP = 3/4 second + aftercast
Mark of Pain = 1 second
EVA = 1 second
Total = ~3 seconds for MoP nuke

Furthermore, you complain about bad damage because there are people in this thread suggesting things like Lightning Orb for use with Intensity.
Lightning Orb does 140 generous damage + (50% x 5 foes) = 490 damage
Rodgort's Invocation does 90 damage (x5 foes) + (50% x 5 foes) = 450 + 225 = 675 damage

No wonder your damage sucks. Removing the AoE aspect from a skill to get minimal max damage on your multiplier is pointless because you are ALREADY REMOVING THE AOE. Stick with Fire and Earth in PvE.

Searing Flames [E]
Rodgort's Invocation
Glowing Gaze
Fire Attunement
Elemental Lord [PvE]
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Intensity [PvE]
???

Run that.

Have you ever done a manlyway sc? 1 physical (war sin or now derv) 1 tank and 1 mop can clear groups in basically no time at all....I'd love to see 1 tank and 2 sf eles do the same.

TalanRoarer · Feb 19, 2011, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Yeah, and MoP takes a team of physical damage dealers to abuse properly. Oh, that AP+MoP+EVA build? Lets do some math!:

We'll say curses is at 16 spec like normal, and the target gets hit 5 times before scatter occurs. Thats 210 Adjacent AoE damage. We'll say 3 targets are hit (remember, your target isn't included). Thats 630 Damage. This happens in about 5 seconds for 126 DPS. Now, we also need "You Move Like a Dwarf!" and "Finish Him!" to make sure that our primary AP target doesn't move and gets killed to recharge MoP.

If the target is successfully killed in time:
Time to let enemies ball again (~5 seconds) + 5 second time to nuke: 63 DPS from MoP
Add DPS from other skills involved (YMLaD, EVA, FH): 63 DPS + 8 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 8 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 10 DPS (EVA) =
89 DPS

If the target is not killed in time (or just MoP with no AP):
Time to let enemies ball again is less than time for MoP to recharge, so new time is 30 seconds + 5 seconds to nuke: 18 DPS
Add DPS from other skills involved (YMLaD, EVA, FH): 18 DPS + 2.6 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 2.6 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 6 DPS (EVA) =
29.2 DPS

Thats 89 DPS average, assuming everything goes right (assassin attacks correct target/lives long enough, enemies stay balled for a decent moment, AP/EVA/MoP are not interrupted, AP isn't removed, target is killed in time for a recharge). The build drops to 29.2 DPS if any of the above occurs. Five skills, three of which are PvE, are required to achieve this!

Searing Flames, one cast in the middle of a mob hitting 5 foes is 70 armor ignoring DPS (14 DPS from burning x 5). You need Fire Attunement, Glyph of Lesser Energy, and I'll even add Elemental Lord or Aura of Restoration for the cover. Thats 4 skills, 1 of which MIGHT be a PvE skill, for a much easier 70 DPS.

And for those of you complaining that 2 seconds is too long to cast:
AP = 3/4 second + aftercast
Mark of Pain = 1 second
EVA = 1 second
Total = ~3 seconds for MoP nuke

Furthermore, you complain about bad damage because there are people in this thread suggesting things like Lightning Orb for use with Intensity.
Lightning Orb does 140 generous damage + (50% x 5 foes) = 490 damage
Rodgort's Invocation does 90 damage (x5 foes) + (50% x 5 foes) = 450 + 225 = 675 damage

No wonder your damage sucks. Removing the AoE aspect from a skill to get minimal max damage on your multiplier is pointless because you are ALREADY REMOVING THE AOE. Stick with Fire and Earth in PvE.

Searing Flames [E]
Rodgort's Invocation
Glowing Gaze
Fire Attunement
Elemental Lord [PvE]
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Intensity [PvE]
???

Run that.

Oh, my god.

You totally disregard the fact that MoP is Armor Ignoring Damage.

SF won't hit for shit in high end areas.

MoP is the build with the highest DPS potential in the entire game.

Kaida the Heartless · Feb 19, 2011, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Have you ever done a manlyway sc? 1 physical (war sin or now derv) 1 tank and 1 mop can clear groups in basically no time at all....I'd love to see 1 tank and 2 sf eles do the same.

Have you ever done an UWSC? I'd love to see a monk bond an entire party with a 5% damage cap enchantment and spam infuse. Ele's have their place in high end speed clears. Your example and my example are just one very specific, gimmicky instance of the application of a class. The characters arn't going to be balanced around them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TalanRoarer

Oh, my god.

You totally disregard the fact that MoP is Armor Ignoring Damage.

SF won't hit for shit in high end areas.

MoP is the build with the highest DPS potential in the entire game.

And you seem to have disregarded the part in my post where I only counted the armor ignoring burning portion of Searing Flame's damage.

Also, the key word is "potential". Manlyway is an exaggerated case, as stated in my previous post. MoP's damage potential is influenced more by Shadow Form or Whirling Attack (Eremite's Attack) than it is by the skill itself.

TalanRoarer · Feb 19, 2011, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

And you seem to have disregarded the part in my post where I only counted the armor ignoring burning portion of Searing Flame's damage.

Also, the key word is "potential". Manlyway is an exaggerated case, as stated in my previous post.

Sigh.

(Big picture will appear here V)

SF dun do that.

HigherMinion · Feb 19, 2011, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by TalanRoarer

Sigh.

(Big picture will appear here V)

SF dun do that.

no one runs sin heroes noob, your screen is void!

How much damage in total?

TalanRoarer · Feb 19, 2011, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

no one runs sin heroes noob, your screen is void!

Shut up Tom, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

If the target is successfully killed in time:
Time to let enemies ball again (~5 seconds) + 5 second time to nuke: 63 DPS from MoP
Add DPS from other skills involved (YMLaD, EVA, FH): 63 DPS + 8 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 8 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 10 DPS (EVA) =
89 DPS

If the target is not killed in time (or just MoP with no AP):
Time to let enemies ball again is less than time for MoP to recharge, so new time is 30 seconds + 5 seconds to nuke: 18 DPS
Add DPS from other skills involved (YMLaD, EVA, FH): 18 DPS + 2.6 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 2.6 DPS (assuming max rank YMLaD) + 6 DPS (EVA) =
29.2 DPS

Sorry, my screenshot says 3000 DPS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

And you seem to have disregarded the part in my post where I only counted the armor ignoring burning portion of Searing Flame's damage.

Yes, I did.

I'm sorry, I didn't read it all I only had to go so far before I knew you were talking nonsense.

Khomet Si Netjer · Feb 19, 2011, 10:21 PM // 22:21

I see that the physway fanboys have arrived... in the elementalist forum. :-\
For everyone who loves physical damage dealers, you have got to realize that in Manlyway style speedclears (or even general use) the warrior is not doing very much damage at all. Instead, he is a conduit for other people's damage. Damage from Mark of Pain, Barbs, Splinter Weapon, Great Dwarf Weapon, Orders. Are any of those warrior skills? So what you are doing is comparing base elementalist damage to warrior+ritualist+necromancer all working together. Obviously that is not exactly fair.

for those who actually want to use their elementalists for something other than ER prot spam, I suggest you give Intensity a try... bring Weaken Armor, bring EBSOH, and go to town. There is a reason why many speedclear teams use elemental damage, despite the fact that it is affected by armor. It hits everyone. In the past, DoA speedclears were done with Searing Flames spam, then Ursan, and now Glaiveway/Frostway is the most common. Trenchway is the fastest but it requires two shadowform tanks and uses mesmers for damage... no physicals at all. Here are screens from a Glaiveway DoA clear from today. Note the mass of yellow numbers in the second shot... I didn't count exactly, but that is ~2800 damage from one spell, and most of the enemies are rangers (thus high armor vs. lightning) No warrior can ever match that without perfect circumstances and Mark of Pain... and even then, it's the necromancer doing the damage.

Essence Snow · Feb 19, 2011, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Have you ever done an UWSC? I'd love to see a monk bond an entire party with a 5% damage cap enchantment and spam infuse. Ele's have their place in high end speed clears. Your example and my example are just one very specific, gimmicky instance of the application of a class. The characters arn't going to be balanced around them.

Yes, I run every area of Tway...but we were comparing mop and searingflames...not mop and ether renewal.

Outerworld · Feb 19, 2011, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

I see that the physway fanboys have arrived... in the elementalist forum. :-\
For everyone who loves physical damage dealers, you have got to realize that in Manlyway style speedclears (or even general use) the warrior is not doing very much damage at all. Instead, he is a conduit for other people's damage. Damage from Mark of Pain, Barbs, Splinter Weapon, Great Dwarf Weapon, Orders. Are any of those warrior skills? So what you are doing is comparing base elementalist damage to warrior+ritualist+necromancer all working together. Obviously that is not exactly fair.

for those who actually want to use their elementalists for something other than ER prot spam, I suggest you give Intensity a try... bring Weaken Armor, bring EBSOH, and go to town. There is a reason why many speedclear teams use elemental damage, despite the fact that it is affected by armor. It hits everyone. In the past, DoA speedclears were done with Searing Flames spam, then Ursan, and now Glaiveway/Frostway is the most common. Trenchway is the fastest but it requires two shadowform tanks and uses mesmers for damage... no physicals at all. Here are screens from a Glaiveway DoA clear from today. Note the mass of yellow numbers in the second shot... I didn't count exactly, but that is ~2800 damage from one spell, and most of the enemies are rangers (thus high armor vs. lightning) No warrior can ever match that without perfect circumstances and Mark of Pain... and even then, it's the necromancer doing the damage.

1) Nobody said the warriors where dealing the damage there.
2) Frost/glaiveway are both slow as shit.

TalanRoarer · Feb 19, 2011, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

I see that the physway fanboys have arrived... in the elementalist forum. :-\
For everyone who loves physical damage dealers, you have got to realize that in Manlyway style speedclears (or even general use) the warrior is not doing very much damage at all. Instead, he is a conduit for other people's damage. Damage from Mark of Pain, Barbs, Splinter Weapon, Great Dwarf Weapon, Orders. Are any of those warrior skills? So what you are doing is comparing base elementalist damage to warrior+ritualist+necromancer all working together. Obviously that is not exactly fair.

He was comparing MoP and SF.

I am a fanboy of Physway though...

WOOO YEAH!!!!!!!!! PHYSWAY YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

Seriously, anyone who tells me that SF can out damage MoP will get put straight.

HigherMinion · Feb 19, 2011, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

I see that the physway fanboys have arrived... in the elementalist forum. :-\
For everyone who loves physical damage dealers, you have got to realize that in Manlyway style speedclears (or even general use) the warrior is not doing very much damage at all. Instead, he is a conduit for other people's damage. Damage from Mark of Pain, Barbs, Splinter Weapon, Great Dwarf Weapon, Orders. Are any of those warrior skills? So what you are doing is comparing base elementalist damage to warrior+ritualist+necromancer all working together. Obviously that is not exactly fair.

for those who actually want to use their elementalists for something other than ER prot spam, I suggest you give Intensity a try... bring Weaken Armor, bring EBSOH, and go to town. There is a reason why many speedclear teams use elemental damage, despite the fact that it is affected by armor. It hits everyone. In the past, DoA speedclears were done with Searing Flames spam, then Ursan, and now Glaiveway/Frostway is the most common. Trenchway is the fastest but it requires two shadowform tanks and uses mesmers for damage... no physicals at all. Here are screens from a Glaiveway DoA clear from today. Note the mass of yellow numbers in the second shot... I didn't count exactly, but that is ~2800 damage from one spell, and most of the enemies are rangers (thus high armor vs. lightning) No warrior can ever match that without perfect circumstances and Mark of Pain... and even then, it's the necromancer doing the damage.

You don't seem to understand the concept of Synergy... Sure let's get a tank, ball everything up and spam our AoE spells. holy shit did you see that nuke! oshit now they kite. QQ.

LifeInfusion · Feb 19, 2011, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Intensity buffs one attack spell every 10 seconds, or one every kill with AP. MoP with 2+ physicals of any kind does 80+DPS unless they're being dumb and running conjures when you're running MoP. With just AP + MOP you get that every time you score a kill, and that's not including double attacks like twin moon sweep, sun and moon slash, or 100 blades.

I don't even know why this discussion is even happening.

127 Rodgort's invocation+ 64 from intensity isn't even close, nor is 140+70 from Invoke/ Orb , neither is anything in the elementalist skill line. And those numbers aren't realistic since in HM everything is armored up so you'll be doing maybe 100 or 110.

DWG in DoA is a special case since there's a hefty +40% from LB title.