Curse

Demichelis · Mar 18, 2011, 01:44 PM // 13:44

So after dying about 4 times within a 15 minute span at the hands of some Charr (with henchmen, said charr were the same level as me, 8), I decided I'd ask for some help about this.

Are there any tips really for leveling as an ele/mesmer, more particularly, survival skills that I can learn? Or which abilities to use? I had my basic Flare, Aura of Restoration, that lightning attack that also does interrupt, Glyph of Lesser Energy, the one mesmer skill that takes away -5 health per second, Ether Feast, Firestorm and Backfire.

I switched it up a bit and I'm still doing some quests to pick up some new skills, but any recommendations as to what to pick up at this point? Any other tips or advice would be greatly appreciated

Calista Blackblood · Mar 18, 2011, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Elementalist Guide (May be slightly out of date)

Roen · Mar 18, 2011, 03:05 PM // 15:05

My pre is an E/Mo so I'm not sure what to tell you except if you can do a /bonus and get the imp summoning stone, use it. If you don't have the right version, you can still get it. I think it's the "anniversary edition" or some kind of upgrade. Search the wiki. The imp helps a lot until you hit lvl20, after which you can no longer use it. Also, adventure with an ally until you are high enough. Preferably one that can do some healing.

Cyrona Jalen Irsei · Mar 18, 2011, 03:13 PM // 15:13

The guide is still pretty much bang on, I think, at least in general terms.

The only tips I can add are:

- Make use of the Fire Imp Summoning Stone if you have access to it. The little guy brings along some much needed firepower. EDIT - oops! Ninja'd...

- I'm assuming from your level/skills set up/Charr issues that you are somewhere around the Ascalon/Diessa Lowlands/Piken Square area. In which case, you're pretty limited in terms of available skills. Focus on one line from Elementalist and split your points between it and Energy Storage. At this stage, I wouldn't bother too much with your Mesmer skills unless you have nothing else to put on your bar - Ether Feast may be an exception as it is a reasonable emergency heal without any points invested in Inspiration.

- keep plugging away!

Winterclaw · Mar 18, 2011, 05:18 PM // 17:18

First problem is it looks like you've got a really weird attribute split. Second of all, you don't have armor of earth for extra defense... points in 5 different attributes it looks like. It's like you've got no focus at all.

1. Drop backfire and the illusion spell asap.
2. Pick fire or lightning.
3. Split atts to mostly fire, some earth for armor of earth, and just a little bit of ES/ins.

Demichelis · Mar 18, 2011, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrona Jalen Irsei

The guide is still pretty much bang on, I think, at least in general terms.

The only tips I can add are:

- Make use of the Fire Imp Summoning Stone if you have access to it. The little guy brings along some much needed firepower. EDIT - oops! Ninja'd...

- I'm assuming from your level/skills set up/Charr issues that you are somewhere around the Ascalon/Diessa Lowlands/Piken Square area. In which case, you're pretty limited in terms of available skills. Focus on one line from Elementalist and split your points between it and Energy Storage. At this stage, I wouldn't bother too much with your Mesmer skills unless you have nothing else to put on your bar - Ether Feast may be an exception as it is a reasonable emergency heal without any points invested in Inspiration.

- keep plugging away!

Actually it was in the Diessa Lowlands area where I kept having trouble.

Quote:

First problem is it looks like you've got a really weird attribute split. Second of all, you don't have armor of earth for extra defense... points in 5 different attributes it looks like. It's like you've got no focus at all.

1. Drop backfire and the illusion spell asap.
2. Pick fire or lightning.
3. Split atts to mostly fire, some earth for armor of earth, and just a little bit of ES/ins.

Yeah, I didn't know where to put the points at :/ Thanks for the recommendation though

Winterclaw · Mar 18, 2011, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Usually you want to split your points 12/12/3 or 11/10/10. Occasionally 12/10/8. But as a general rule, never put points into more than 3 attributes unless you really, really know what you are doing and have a specific reason for doing so.

Skyy High · Mar 18, 2011, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Or if you're a new player with access to no more than a handful of skills in each attribute line right now, so specializing is pretty difficult. You're giving lvl20 advice to a lvl8. It's still a long ways for him.

To the OP: 4 attribute lines is fine for now, particularly since you don't have that many spells. Pare it down when you can and find your focus.

Mashiyu · Mar 19, 2011, 01:04 AM // 01:04

If you don't have any energy problems, i wouldn't use attribute points for energy storage at all - just put leftover points in it. With Glyph of Lesser Energy+Energy Tap you shouldn't have any energy problems.

Personally, I'd recommend a split between fire, inspiration (either 0 or 3 points - nothing between*) and energy storage. I'd rather leave a skill slot empty than adding a useless skill to my bar.

* Reason: 3 Inspiration is a so-called breakpoint for the mesmer skill Energy Tap which is available via a skill quest in Old Ascalon. Below 3 Inspiration, the skill steals 4 energy from an enemy and adds 8 to your energy pool. From 3 and above Inspiration, you'll steal 5 and gain 10 energy. (The next breakpoint would be 8 Inspiration - but when you can afford raising a secondary attribute to 8, you're probably not low-level anymore

)

Edit: Yes, I'm aware that breakpoints are a rather advanced topic in build building, but it helps saving the few attribute points.

**Marty Silverblade** · Mar 19, 2011, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Energy Tap isn't worthwhile. You're forgetting it costs 5e to cast it, which is going to reduce the return to negligible levels (3e @0Insp or 5e @ 3Insp). On a 30 second recharge, it's not worth using.

Also, @OP, Conjure Phantasm does 10 damage per second, not 5. 1 pip of health degeneration = 2 damage per second. It's not worth using once you get further into the game, but it's worth knowing.

BrettM · Mar 19, 2011, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Aside from your skill bar, let's look at your armor and weapons.

Are you still in starter or collector armor from pre? If so, you need to pick up a set of armor in Ascalon City, and make sure it's from Corwen, not the other armor crafter. Corwen's armor will easily last you until you reach LA and maybe beyond (though there is some spiffier looking armor in Yak's Bend). Choose the headgear that matches the element you will be focusing on for a while and put a minor rune of that element on it. (E.g., a fire headpiece with a minor fire rune.) Put a minor energy storage rune on some other piece.

What are you using for weapons? At this point, you may find it easier to get a staff with desirable stats than a wand/focus set. Damage does not really matter, but the other stats are important to a caster, so you want to get the best stats you can and upgrade whenever possible until you have a max weapon.

Also, be sure you have a longbow or flatbow for pulling as one of your weapon sets.

Demichelis · Mar 19, 2011, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Aside from your skill bar, let's look at your armor and weapons.

Are you still in starter or collector armor from pre? If so, you need to pick up a set of armor in Ascalon City, and make sure it's from Corwen, not the other armor crafter. Corwen's armor will easily last you until you reach LA and maybe beyond (though there is some spiffier looking armor in Yak's Bend). Choose the headgear that matches the element you will be focusing on for a while and put a minor rune of that element on it. (E.g., a fire headpiece with a minor fire rune.) Put a minor energy storage rune on some other piece.

What are you using for weapons? At this point, you may find it easier to get a staff with desirable stats than a wand/focus set. Damage does not really matter, but the other stats are important to a caster, so you want to get the best stats you can and upgrade whenever possible until you have a max weapon.

Also, be sure you have a longbow or flatbow for pulling as one of your weapon sets.

Well, I got a white dye drop 2 days ago, so I managed to sell it to the dye trader for 3 platinum, so that allowed me to get the elementalist robes and stuff, which replaced my Krytan gear. As far as weaponry goes, I'm using a air wand that does 6-11 damage with +2 energy while enchanted (whatever that means) and a Jeweled...something, I forget what it's named.

TheGizzy · Mar 19, 2011, 04:29 PM // 16:29

I started in Prophecies as well, also as an elementalist. I know that until I got to the Crystal Desert or so, I pretty much carried nothing but Fire spells (and a pet, since I was a ranger secondary).

I'm trying to remember my exact build when I was still in Ascalon. Flare of course & Aura of Restoration. I believe I got Immolate & Phoenix from the trainer at Grendich Courthouse as quickly as I could after reaching Ascalon. I put most of my points into Fire & Energy Storage, and I think everything else went towards my pet/pet skills.

I do recall that I got new armor as soon as I possibly could upon reaching Ascalon, and I got runes & insignia right away as well. I focused on energy (Radiant & Attunement) instead of on health (Survivor & Vitae) for the most part - and that's contrary to what I did later when my energy management was in much better shape because my available skills were so much more flexible. At the time, I needed energy a lot more than health.

I found that for me, splitting between Fire & Air was really hampering me, so I had to choose between them. That early in the game, Fire is nicely effective, so I went with that.

I also spent probably a few hundred hours pouring over information here on Guru and on the Wiki. There's so much valuable information in both places!

If you send me a PM here with your in-game name, I'll try and catch up with you in-game this weekend and get you a few weapons that will help with your health & energy.

Winterclaw · Mar 19, 2011, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Or if you're a new player with access to no more than a handful of skills in each attribute line right now, so specializing is pretty difficult. You're giving lvl20 advice to a lvl8. It's still a long ways for him.

Starting off, he should focus most of his points on one line, building up the second and third ones later. Putting 80 points into a single line early on will give you a lot of benefits versus putting 80 points into 5 lines.

LifeInfusion · Mar 20, 2011, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Eles are the squishiest due to long cast times, recharges, and few skills to reduce damage other than Armor of earth, Ward against melee. In Prophecies PvE, unless you unlock skills you're only getting Fire magic which sucks against charr.

You generally want to dump all your points in 1 element and splash points in energy storage if you run aura of restoration (8+ or 7+1 minor energy rune). Going dual element is possible with cheap skills (5 energy) like Gale/Chilling Winds/etc. Otherwise they will be on long recharge (Glyph of lesser energy can help) due to energy constraints. Most of the time you're already packing 2-3 energy skills (Attunement+aura of restoration+ glyph) so the bar will have very little room for running dual element stuff. Unless it's a utility skill like Blinding Flash/Ward against melee/Meteor there's no point in even pumping 2 elements because other professions' skills aren't priced with attunements in mind (Aegis, Protective was Kaolai given their long recharges are usually good choices).

Out of Ascalon you'll probably have Flare + Firestorm + Blinding Flash + Lightning Javelin + Glyph+ Aura of Restoration and no non-earth attunement. There's also Frozen Burst, Armor of Earth,Eruption, Shard Storm, Earth attunement, Whirlwind,Ward against foes, and ice prison. That puts you at a severe disadvantage to necros/mesmers/ritualists with respect to energy. Firestorm and Eruption also cause mobs to scatter.

You're best off getting Fireball from http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Caravan_in_Trouble .

In all honesty I wouldn't start an ele in this current stage of the game (compared to the other casters they're very underpowered); and if I did I'd start one in Nightfall because most of the best elite skills are from there.

Winterclaw · Mar 20, 2011, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Since els are underpowered, chances are they are most likely to get a buff. Plus they are fun enough to play. So I wouldn't worry about that.

LifeInfusion · Mar 21, 2011, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Since els are underpowered, chances are they are most likely to get a buff. Plus they are fun enough to play. So I wouldn't worry about that.

That's what I said 2 years ago when HM came. Also what I said when Mobs scattered, when the gear/book trick got introduced and SS was all the rage. Lies. Eles still haven't gotten a serious HM update.

To put it in perspective with a skill like Keystone signet or just 2 nonelites clumsiness+wandering eye or Cry of frustration + mistrust +overload/wastrel spam +unnatural sig, there has to be at least 2 skills with <10 recharge that do 100+ AoE after armor, with 1 cast time and sustainable energy (5 after attunement + AoR). There's flat out no way to compete with 57*6 every 10-15 seconds (before the +57 from each Signet of Clumsiness x2, +47 x2 from Unnatural sig) from Keystone or ~100 every 6-8 seconds from Illusion spam.

Fire comes close with Fireball + Liquid Flame +Phoenix/Inferno (PBAOE) + Rodgort's Invocation (only with Mind Blast). Searing Flames bars can only spam Searing Flames and need 3-4 skill slots for energy-management (Glowing Gaze + Attunement+AoR+goLE).

Water has ice spikes, deep freeze, rust. None of these do big damage (peaking around 80-90 armor-reduced) and only rust is 10 energy.

Air has a limit of 3 targets, peaking at ~100 armor reduced (chain/invoke).

Earth has Earthquake/Dragon's Stomp, the rest are DoTAoEs like Churning earth/Eruption. 3 cast *2 =6, +2*0.75 aftercast = 7.5 just for two skills. The only way to get any skills on <10 recharge is to go PBAOE with Aftershock. The other PBAOEs are 20 recharge (Crystal Wave/Teinai's Crystals) or elite (Shockwave).

DoTS are on 20+ recharge for~200 damage (+75 from EBSOH if you bring it) so you need something like Assassin's Promise or Glyph of Renewal and a snare.

Winterclaw · Mar 21, 2011, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Very true. But Anet can only balance one class at a time it seems and it takes them 6 months or more to do a balance.

Thock · Mar 23, 2011, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Very true. But Anet can only balance one class at a time it seems and it takes them 6 months or more to do a balance.

Eles dont need a whole skill rework to fix. Just buff es in pve only or buff intensity or elemental lord or attunements so that they give us a damage boost of some kind, be it armor pen, attribute raise, or a flat +% damage that is maintainable. Or remove armor increases in HM and add more base health.

There are plenty of simple, low workload solutions they could do. Either anet doesn't think eles should deal damage and are fine as is, or they are being stubborn and working on a mass skill change that will take several months. The most frustrating thing about the whole situation is that they wont tell us either way.

Urcscumug · Mar 28, 2011, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Can we please not turn this into another "QQ eles" thread or suck all the joy out of a newbs's attempt to play the class? :/

Back on topic: I'm trying to remember how I first went through Diessa Lowlands, I was an E/Me too. I think my main trick involved Ice Spikes as an opening snare, followed by Fire Storm. In an emergency I made use of Armor of Earth (when melee reached the backline; it's nice to be able to tank when AI thinks they got a softie). I also used Glyph of Lesser Energy and Fire Attunement. Throw in Aura of Restoration and some Flare spam plus the res signet and there's your bar.

My team was formed of Alesia, Stefan and Reyna (which is kinda obvious since the only other alternative, Orion, was a redundant fire ele).

Diessa involves many cris-crossing groups of mobs so leave the imp at home, it's guaranteed to over-aggro. Advance slowly, learn to pull, from where to approach, and to wait for patrol splits, that's exactly what the Althea quests are supposed to teach you. Also learn with AoE spells cause the mobs to scatter and which do not. For those that do it's imperative to use snares and to learn to time them well.

Try to reach the Courthouse and start the second quest from there, beats coming across 3 zones and fighting all the way.

The other thing you must learn is the basic logic of a fire ele bar. You want to reduce energy costs because your skills are expensive; you want to do AoE damage; and you want foes to be unable to run away when AoE starts. This means Fire Attunement and Glyph of Lesser Energy (not strictly energy management since they don't increase it, just reduce costs, but ok); a snare (water spell or earth ward); 3-4 AoE skills (don't just slap 'em in, give some thought to the balance of cost/activation/recharge/damage/nearby vs far effect). The rest of 1-2 slots can be used in various ways and will vary per zone (Aura of Restoration, res signet, things that cause Blind, interrupts, other earth protection wards for your fellow backline softies).

Test your builds. Once you reach LA you should visit the Master of Damage regularly. Before that, test on live Charrs and other mobs. :P Note down damage, see how one build does against another etc.

Some pre-LA skill hints: pick up Ice Spikes on the way to Piken, you can pick up Immolate and Phoenix at the Grenditch Courthouse trader, Fireball from Captain Osric in Yak's Bend, Inferno from a quest in North Kryta Province, Blurred Vision from Ice Tooth Cave.

Secondaries usually are of limited use. I had some attempts in Pre and stuff like Channeling (from Yak's Bend) or Backfire can be interesting/useful to some extent. Do explore your Me skills but don't expect miracles.

Some other random advice: if your focus item is crap consider grabbing a shield instead, it's extra armor for your entire body (read this).