Curse

DiogoSilva · Mar 02, 2012, 12:03 AM // 00:03

I'm planning to build a team with some melee heroes, now that they can consistently deal good damage as long as a target is called/ pinged, and I'm wondering, should I bother myself or any ele hero to have a DC elite skill?

Stone Sheath should be interesting to protect the melee hero, as it boosts his defense by a lot. Especially if cast by a player (me) at the instant the hero shadowsteps, for damage + weakness. I (or the hero) would then follow it with Unsteady Ground and Eruption, for further protection and some anti-movement. Mirror of Ice could be fine for a AoE Snare after the hero shadowsteps in, but the water line is still underpowered. Same can be said for Gust, unless I put it on, say, a Mesmer? I don't need to invest much points for the nearby KD and decent damage. Double Dragon would considerely up the damage of the hero, and make his AoE deal burning.

What are your opinions?

Lanier · Mar 02, 2012, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Double dragon would be the best bet in my opinion. Also, don't forget that eles are great platforms for splinter weapon! You should have at least one, if not two of these in any party with physicals.

Kunder · Mar 02, 2012, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Double dragon doesn't seem that great unless both the ele and the warrior are next to something for double damage. Otherwise the fact that it causes scatter (making enemies kite your physical) potentially hurts more than the actual damage helps, and almost certainly causes the effective damage to be less than whatever else your ele could be using.

Stone Sheath should work great for heroes that teleport in and tank the entire mob. Wouldn't risk it on assassins though.

Gust is one of those skills that could be just silly if you abuse it right. Earthbind + quicker recharge = enemies spend half their time on the ground.

Not New · Mar 02, 2012, 03:50 AM // 03:50

DD is an enchantment... does not cause scatter

Kunder · Mar 02, 2012, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Being an enchantment is entirely unrelated to whether something causes scatter or not (try pulsing Dark Aura), but I'll test it again.

EDIT: looks like its not causing scatter. Still don't think that only 1 pulse will outdamage other ele elites though. 20-30ish DPS for a short while just isn't what you want your elite doing.

Lanier · Mar 02, 2012, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Actually, now that I have gone back and looked at what it does now, I kind of like the idea of gust too. There may not be too many good skills in its line, but you can always spec into channeling for splinter + arage or into curses for useful utility.

DiogoSilva · Mar 02, 2012, 03:56 PM // 15:56

^I was thinking of a Gust+Melee-support hero too.

Double Dragon also causes burning, which ups the DPS to 44ish, but what's most valuable about it is how it is the best candidate for Ebon Battle Standard of Honor. 8 hits that do not cause scatter means more 15ish DPS on top of it, upping it to 57. In total, you get 460 damage out of it for 8 seconds, which is more than a EBSoH+Savannah Heah. SH only lasts 5 seconds, though, but you must break your DPS to cast a 2s+0.75s Snare, plus it costs 1 second longer to cast itself. DD also has a slightly shorter recharge cost, which makes it easier to cast a second time in battles, it is mobile, and while the melee hero is doing his job at the front, you can just move to a melee foe near you and spread its damage to more targets. That, and when cast on a target near yourself, you can almost double the entire damage, which does happens at least once per battle frequently.

Savannah Heat:
2s+0.75s for Deep Freeze = 30ish damage.
2s+0.75s for Savannah Heat = 300 damage in 5 seconds.
1s+0.75s for EBSoH = Affects SH after the first 1/ 2 hits for more 15 DPS. A total of 45+60 extra damage.

You take about 7.25 seconds to deal about 390ish damage spread over 9 seconds at nearby range.

Double Dragon:
1s+0.75 for DD on melee hero = 44ish DPS, ~360 damage in 8 seconds.
1s+0.75 for EBSoH = Affects DD after the first 1/ 2 hits for more 15 DPS. A total of 90ish extra damage.

You take 3.50 seconds to deal about 450ish damage spread over 9 seconds, with the following bonus:
-It works on two nearby ranges instead of one if you're near another target foe;
-Damage is almost doubled if main target is near you;
-The 3.75 seconds extra that you would take for SH, you can cast 1 Liquid Flame and 1 Fireball, for a total of 200+ damage.
-It's overall slightly more spammable (5s less recharge), and the extra mobility means less damage wasted when target dies.
-The duration can be increased to 10 seconds with an enchanting weapon, dealing about an extra 118 damage.

Azazello · Mar 03, 2012, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Not sure if you accounted for burning being 14 dps, and enchanting mod increasing the duration to 10s, giving it 57% uptime with the inherent 20% HSR on staves. Wiki says heroes won't cast it unless both they and their target have enemies in nearby range, and will run into range to make sure of that. I doubt they'll run around chasing mobs from that point on, but having the squishy ele run up to the frontline probably isn't such a bad thing when the ground around him is on fire.

I wouldn't run it because there are so many more abusable skills around, but it seems pretty strong.

DiogoSilva · Mar 03, 2012, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Not sure if you accounted for burning being 14 dps, and enchanting mod increasing the duration to 10s, giving it 57% uptime with the inherent 20% HSR on staves.

I just updated my post with this.

Quote:

Wiki says heroes won't cast it unless both they and their target have enemies in nearby range, and will run into range to make sure of that. I doubt they'll run around chasing mobs from that point on, but having the squishy ele run up to the frontline probably isn't such a bad thing when the ground around him is on fire.

I'm not sure how it works on heroes, because Double Dragon is less linear in its usage than, say, Elemental Attunement, and so it should be a bit more difficult for the hero's AI to use. Although that could change with the second part of the update, who knows, should eles get better melee-range skills for heroes to use.

Quote:

I wouldn't run it because there are so many more abusable skills around, but it seems pretty strong.

That's true, but as my main is an elementalist, I've been enjoying it alot as an alternative to EA.

DD is the kind of skill that is asking to be abused, but it still has not enough support from the non-elites to do that. Much like Gust.

Shaikar · Mar 03, 2012, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Double dragon doesn't seem that great unless both the ele and the warrior are next to something for double damage. Otherwise the fact that it causes scatter (making enemies kite your physical) potentially hurts more than the actual damage helps, and almost certainly causes the effective damage to be less than whatever else your ele could be using.

Double Dragon doesn't cause scatter. I've been running a hero with it for my warrior fairly often for vanquishes and I've yet to see a monster try to run out of the AoE - they just happily stand there wailing on me while they burn and get stabbed in the face with a sword.

Stone Sheath is used effectively by heroes on a player physical at least so I assume they'll use it on Koss etc ok as well. I would have thought it's overkill for vanquishing though, however I'm not sure if melee heroes still go a bit bonkers with the aggro so it might pull them out of the fire fairly well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Wiki says heroes won't cast it unless both they and their target have enemies in nearby range, and will run into range to make sure of that. I doubt they'll run around chasing mobs from that point on, but having the squishy ele run up to the frontline probably isn't such a bad thing when the ground around him is on fire.

The wiki is wrong. Zhed seem to have no qualms casting DD on me if there are no bad guys near him and most fights he loiters around the rear burning nothing with his half of the DD whilst lobbing other spells into the fight. Of course that means half of the DD is effectively being wasted but then the idea of heroes deliberately running into melee gives me the fear...