Curse

expugnare · Jan 08, 2012, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll start adding some of the builds above in the same format in the original post (with acknowledgement and thanks given to those who contributed).

Daesu · Jan 08, 2012, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

I just used a bip with this in a vq and I only needed 1 healer. I also did use glyph of ele power for 30 heals. Best thing about this though is it heals minions and keeps them alive forever.

Yes that build is interesting and certainly seems viable enough to be a new meta(?), especially in the harder areas that require may defenses/healing.

More importantly, heroes seem to use this well (more testing is needed though), which means you can bring even more healing if needed. Perhaps we don't need a dedicated healer anymore.

spun ducky · Jan 08, 2012, 11:35 PM // 23:35

I was just testing ele teams and I found a nice variation on that with mistform.

These are the base just rune how you want.
12 Water
12 E Storage
3 fire

Mistform,Armor of frost,FireAttunement,Elemental Lord,aura of restoration,burning speed,arcane mimicry,optional

Mimic Elemental attunement or ER from another ele in party and welcome to non stop party wide healing spam burning speed as fast as you can all you want just like ER with burning speed.

HigherMinion · Jan 09, 2012, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Perhaps we don't need a dedicated healer anymore.

We haven't needed dedicated healing since UA and SoS hybrid...

A few times, by accident, I have gone out into areas with only the three heals on my SoS rit for support. That's normal now. UA mops up so well.

Amlin · Jan 09, 2012, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Decided to try out Ele again since the patch and used your Mind Burner build; I'm having a blast using it. Incredibly fun to play with.

Swingline · Jan 09, 2012, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Yes that build is interesting and certainly seems viable enough to be a new meta(?), especially in the harder areas that require may defenses/healing.

More importantly, heroes seem to use this well (more testing is needed though), which means you can bring even more healing if needed. Perhaps we don't need a dedicated healer anymore.

After playing with it some more I found it gets boring real fast with heroes. This build may make it into team builds such as Urgoz or Deep where a BiP is present or places where party healing is mostly needed such as massive degen. The build is also very fragile to massive enchantment removal along with shutdown, if burning speed is disabled then your done and this may happen quite often because allies need to be within earshot.

To make the Mist Form Ele a more dedicated healer it may need to go E/Mo with Infuse Health to help with big health spikes more often.

----------

Water Trident is an awesome skill. Its a shame they didn't make it more spammy for PvE by shaving a second off the recharge but it looks like a good IL replacement because if its already low recharge of 3.

ashes · Jan 09, 2012, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Battle Standard of Wisdom + 40/40 for ultra spam

Xenomortis · Jan 09, 2012, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Water Trident is an awesome skill. Its a shame they didn't make it more spammy for PvE by shaving a second off the recharge but it looks like a good IL replacement because if its already low recharge of 3.

Both Water Trident and Shatterstone are held back by virtue of being in Water Magic.

expugnare · Jan 09, 2012, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Both Water Trident and Shatterstone are held back by virtue of being in Water Magic.

Sad, but true.

Swingline · Jan 09, 2012, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Both Water Trident and Shatterstone are held back by virtue of being in Water Magic.

With all the many changes to ele elites, water could rise up to a higher tier once the regular skill update comes. Hence why I said it was too early for a thread like this.

MoM is being ruined for me atm. Too many skills I want to play with cause exhaustion. gg anet

Axel Zinfandel · Jan 11, 2012, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

With all the many changes to ele elites, water could rise up to a higher tier once the regular skill update comes. Hence why I said it was too early for a thread like this.

MoM is being ruined for me atm. Too many skills I want to play with cause exhaustion. gg anet

Honestly, I've always had that with Eles. Granted, reducing it to 5 for some skills HAS helped things a bit, but it certainly has done nothing but cause me to bite my lip a bit less. It's simply too easy to work AROUND exhaustion causing skills than it is to deal WITH it.

But I don't really have a solution for it. Exhaustion is an interesting mechanic that originally kept some really powerful skills in check by causing you to skrew yourself over if you spam them too much.. but the problem now is eles no longer really have as huge a high ground as they once did in terms of damage, so what was originally a mechanic keeping them in check is now a mechanic that just seems to gimp the ele.

I'm not sure if all that has changed much with the HM changes, because I admit I havn't played ele in a while, but it doesn't sound like it.

Mouse at Large · Jan 12, 2012, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Very situational I know, but if you ever hankered after a way to farm the Gates of Kryta starter mobs (the ones past Oink) in HM, this will do the trick fairly easily.

AoR
Stoneflesh Aura
Stone Sheath (e)
Sliver Armour
Stone Daggers
EBSoH
Mending Touch
Balthazars Spirit

Attributes split - 16 Earth, 9 ES, 10 Prot

Equipment - cheap martial weapon of enchanting with +5 energy (I Have the Power insc.) plus shield (mine has +29 health and 10 v slashing - other combos may be more effective).

Will never be as quick as a solo smiter, but works much better than anything else I have tried previously. It may well have some mileage for other melee based mobs. For example, take out Sliver and Mending Touch, add Radiation Field and a backup heal of your choice and you are good to go against HM minotaurs outside Ice Tooth Cave.

Williwaw87 · Jan 17, 2012, 07:03 AM // 07:03

I was thinking of this for a water magic support build:

Mist Form, Rust, Necrosis, Glowing Ice, Elemental Lord, Water Attunement, Glyph of Immolation and Steam

Basically, Mist Form is for healing your party
Rust is to provide an AOE water magic hex which is useful for Glowing Ice, Mist Form and Necrosis
Necrosis is for armor ignoring damage with a low recharge time
Glowing Ice and Water Attunement are for energy management
Elemental Lord is for some healing and the elemental boost. However, I'm not sure if it's completely necessary as you'd already be getting healed by Mist Form.
Glyph of Immolation and Steam work together to give an easy blind and burn combo.

What do you guys think? I don't have mist form, so I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, but in theory it looks like it might work.

Googi · Jan 17, 2012, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Williwaw87

I was thinking of this for a water magic support build:

Mist Form, Rust, Necrosis, Glowing Ice, Elemental Lord, Water Attunement, Glyph of Immolation and Steam

Basically, Mist Form is for healing your party
Rust is to provide an AOE water magic hex which is useful for Glowing Ice, Mist Form and Necrosis
Necrosis is for armor ignoring damage with a low recharge time
Glowing Ice and Water Attunement are for energy management
Elemental Lord is for some healing and the elemental boost. However, I'm not sure if it's completely necessary as you'd already be getting healed by Mist Form.
Glyph of Immolation and Steam work together to give an easy blind and burn combo.

What do you guys think? I don't have mist form, so I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, but in theory it looks like it might work.

You are dealing low damage, and the healing is trivial, considering the spells you have aren't spammable nor expensive (highest is Rust 10e). Mist Form isn't good without a very spammable spell like Burning Speed.

With that amount of energy management, you are better off using other elites like Shatterstone/Water Trident/Mirror of Ice with other spells like Ice Spikes/Blurred Vision, providing solid damage and utilities.

If you are insisting on using Mist Form, the Burning Speed bar is a good build to look into.

expugnare · Jan 17, 2012, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

You are dealing low damage, and the healing is trivial, considering the spells you have aren't spammable nor expensive (highest is Rust 10e). Mist Form isn't good without a very spammable spell like Burning Speed.

With that amount of energy management, you are better off using other elites like Shatterstone/Water Trident/Mirror of Ice with other spells like Ice Spikes/Blurred Vision, providing solid damage and utilities.

If you are insisting on using Mist Form, the Burning Speed bar is a good build to look into.

This. Water is very weak at the moment, unfortunately. The best usage for it, currently, would probably be the Burning Speed Mist Form healer. I can't really imagine any other viable water builds at the moment. Shatterstone and Water Trident both have potential, as does Mirror of Ice, but they are un-viable at the moment due to the lack of effective Water non-elites. I would say just wait for the rest of the spells to be updated before we try something with that attribute (hence why I haven't updated the water builds on this thread, other than Mist Form).

IchibanK · Jan 18, 2012, 12:36 AM // 00:36

I noticed there wasn't really anything for Air builds yet.
For those of us that liked the old invoke+chain builds here are some options that provide roughly equivalent single target damage.

Hero: (Replacement for Jeydra's original invoke heros)

E/P (Air 12+1+2, ES 9+1, Command 9)
Lightning Orb
Chain Lightning
Shock Arrow
[Optional] (Maybe: "Stand Your Ground"?)
"Fall Back"
Glyph of Elemental Power
Elemental Attunement [Elite]
Air Attunement

I calculate this at 52 dps (single target) vs AL60 and 40dps vs AL100 (theoretical)
This is pretty much equivalent single target to the original invoke version.

Pros: Dual attunement generally prevents the need for glyph of lesser energy, though energy will still be lost when target dies before spell hits.
Cons: Enchantment stripping hurts more than previously due to no GoLE. Additional target 'splash' damage is reduced.

Player alternatives for old Invoke build:

E/? (Air 12+1+3, ES 12+1)
Lightning Orb
Chain Lightning
Shock Arrow
Lightning Javelin
[Optional]
Glyph of Elemental Power
Elemental Attunement [Elite]
Air Attunement / Aura of Restoration

I calculate this at 60 dps (single target) vs AL60 and 47dps vs AL100 (theoretical)
Lightning Orb hits for 172 damage on most HM backline (anything with AL80 or less)

Another option is to keep Invoke:

E/? (Air 12+1+3, ES 12+1)
Invoke Lightning [E]
Lightning Orb
Shock Arrow
Lightning Javelin
[Optional]
Glyph of Elemental Power
Air Attunement
Elemental Lord

I calculate this at 66 dps (single target) vs AL60 and 50dps vs AL100 (theoretical)
This sims higher but is tighter in terms of energy and uptime of attunements.

Williwaw87 · Jan 18, 2012, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by expugnare

This. Water is very weak at the moment, unfortunately. The best usage for it, currently, would probably be the Burning Speed Mist Form healer. I can't really imagine any other viable water builds at the moment. Shatterstone and Water Trident both have potential, as does Mirror of Ice, but they are un-viable at the moment due to the lack of effective Water non-elites. I would say just wait for the rest of the spells to be updated before we try something with that attribute (hence why I haven't updated the water builds on this thread, other than Mist Form).

When is the non-elite update coming? Have they said it's coming soon?

expugnare · Jan 18, 2012, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by IchibanK

I noticed there wasn't really anything for Air builds yet.
For those of us that liked the old invoke+chain builds here are some options that provide roughly equivalent single target damage.

Hero: (Replacement for Jeydra's original invoke heros)

E/P (Air 12+1+2, ES 9+1, Command 9)
Lightning Orb
Chain Lightning
Shock Arrow
[Optional] (Maybe: "Stand Your Ground"?)
"Fall Back"
Glyph of Elemental Power
Elemental Attunement [Elite]
Air Attunement

I calculate this at 52 dps (single target) vs AL60 and 40dps vs AL100 (theoretical)
This is pretty much equivalent single target to the original invoke version.

Pros: Dual attunement generally prevents the need for glyph of lesser energy, though energy will still be lost when target dies before spell hits.
Cons: Enchantment stripping hurts more than previously due to no GoLE. Additional target 'splash' damage is reduced.

Player alternatives for old Invoke build:

E/? (Air 12+1+3, ES 12+1)
Lightning Orb
Chain Lightning
Shock Arrow
Lightning Javelin
[Optional]
Glyph of Elemental Power
Elemental Attunement [Elite]
Air Attunement / Aura of Restoration

I calculate this at 60 dps (single target) vs AL60 and 47dps vs AL100 (theoretical)
Lightning Orb hits for 172 damage on most HM backline (anything with AL80 or less)

Another option is to keep Invoke:

E/? (Air 12+1+3, ES 12+1)
Invoke Lightning [E]
Lightning Orb
Shock Arrow
Lightning Javelin
[Optional]
Glyph of Elemental Power
Air Attunement
Elemental Lord

I calculate this at 66 dps (single target) vs AL60 and 50dps vs AL100 (theoretical)
This sims higher but is tighter in terms of energy and uptime of attunements.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I'll try them out and put them on the first page later this week.

The update to normal skills is somewhere in the foreseeable future. They didn't specify when.

Lanier · Jan 18, 2012, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by expugnare

This. Water is very weak at the moment, unfortunately. The best usage for it, currently, would probably be the Burning Speed Mist Form healer. I can't really imagine any other viable water builds at the moment. Shatterstone and Water Trident both have potential, as does Mirror of Ice, but they are un-viable at the moment due to the lack of effective Water non-elites. I would say just wait for the rest of the spells to be updated before we try something with that attribute (hence why I haven't updated the water builds on this thread, other than Mist Form).

I could see snares being very powerful when used in conjuction with the DoT AoE skills. Savannah Heat, the other non-elite heats, and the other fire and earth DoT skills are very damaging now, and with with the water magic snares would amplify their power. I suppose you could always just slot deep freeze on one of the fire or earth eles, but I would probably prefer to have deep freeze on a seperate char along with a couple of other snares (like ice spikes or mind freeze), and maelstrom to add in some extra utility and DoT.

@ the person who suggested the dual attunement air builds: Lightning hammer does too much dammage with such a low recharge to not use in a dual attunement build. Even before the update, I would occasionally use a dual attunement build that looked something like this:

Air attunement
Elemental Attunement
Lightning Orb
Lightning Hammer
Chain Lightning
Enervating Charge
Optional (I always bring elemental lord)
Optional (usually intensity to add some AoE damage to hammer/orb)

Remember, the dual attunements return close to the full energy cost of even the high-energy spells like lightning hammer. There is no reason to use shock arrow.

Jeydra · Jan 18, 2012, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by IchibanK

I noticed there wasn't really anything for Air builds yet.
For those of us that liked the old invoke+chain builds here are some options that provide roughly equivalent single target damage.

Hero: (Replacement for Jeydra's original invoke heros)

E/P (Air 12+1+2, ES 9+1, Command 9)
Lightning Orb
Chain Lightning
Shock Arrow
[Optional] (Maybe: "Stand Your Ground"?)
"Fall Back"
Glyph of Elemental Power
Elemental Attunement [Elite]
Air Attunement

I calculate this at 52 dps (single target) vs AL60 and 40dps vs AL100 (theoretical)
This is pretty much equivalent single target to the original invoke version.

Pros: Dual attunement generally prevents the need for glyph of lesser energy, though energy will still be lost when target dies before spell hits.
Cons: Enchantment stripping hurts more than previously due to no GoLE. Additional target 'splash' damage is reduced.

I tried this using Lightning Hammer in the optional slot + Shell Shock instead of Shock Arrow. It was hideously bad. It's not just because of the single-target damage nature. Faults with this build include:

1. I suspect the hero can't manage exhaustion even with only Chain Lightning. I did not pay close attention, but I did try using Invoke Lightning without Chain Lightning and the energy drops faster than it replenishes.
2. You lose a heap of energy if the target dies before you finish casting, and with the spiky nature that Invoke Eles are supposed to be, you run out of energy way too fast for comfort. GoLE could compensate a bit, but the 25e invested into Lightning Hammer is still serious.
3. The hero seems not to upkeep Elemental Attunement as well as he should. This is deadly to energy management. Perhaps it has something to do with 16 Air spec and "only" 10 Energy Storage.

At the moment, I think Air is a pretty dead attribute line. Like Water, there isn't enough worth using on a hero (although AP Air is still the best offensive Elementalist build out there).