Curse

Lucrece · Aug 10, 2011, 08:44 PM // 20:44

I feel pretty ashamed in having incredible difficulty with Foundry in DoA, in Normal Mode.

I can clear the fourth room more consistently now, but the Rage titans are always a crap shoot and really stress me out.

I play on a Dervish so I get the added benefit of bringing Save Yourselves!, which I'll admit is not as easy to keep up despite Avatar of Balthazar+Dark Fury+Balthazar's spirit because I need to be very conscious of my positioning so as to take advantage of splinter weapon and ancestor's rage.

But when I get to the final room with the patrols, I'm already rather stressed out and pulls don't seem to work my way. I'm not really sure where to make the pulls. Plus, I don't even think I'm capable of keeping the Forgotten alive (I've yet to clear the entire room).

I think it comes down to not getting around to the proper keybinds and microing well. I don't keep track of Shelter and Displacement too well, and I bet asuran scan would help a lot if I got it so blind doesn't destroy my Save Yourselves rotation.

I bring a panic mesmer, an ineptitude one, a Channelling Smiter ritualist (as per EFGJack's modifications, since rage titans' targeted aoe seems to annihilate spirits even when the heroes are flagged apart), an ST rit, a UA healing prayers monk, a RoJ smiter monk, a BiP necro (since a lot of mobs in foundry kill your energy pool) and my AoB dervish.

Avatar of Melandru helps a good bit with my survivability and the party's by pretty much keeping the party condition free, but the rage titans still hit like a truck and not having save yourselves up as often is a bit of an issue, plus I kill slower outside AoB.

Fights in foundry also last quite a bit because I admit I'm a beginner and only have rank 1 Luxon for a 4 sec SY, and basic rank 5 eotn titles so I don't have pimped up PvE skills.

I recognize I'm not stellar, but I think I'm not detrimental to the group. I've modified a Glaiveway build with all the proper equipment but I don't even get a chance to test it because nobody wants to take a DwG dervish, now they only want ritualist mains for DwG.

I feel rather alienated from the PvE community at the moment. I can only count ONE instance in which I've played high end PvE with a group of actual players instead of 7h, and that was City in DoA. We managed to clear it despite a completely inefficient setup (that is to say, a balanced setup in a PuG which apparently doesn't work well for PuGs unless you do gimmick builds like Frostway/Glaiveway).

So I'm leveling an imbagon in hopes that I'm at least on this toon given even a passing chance at joining a DoA group.

I'm not a farmer. I just want to experience the surroundings and quest story. While I don't mind improving my skills for HM, I understand why I'm having difficulty with the PvE scene. Everything pretty much by now is farming and fully experienced, so there's very little people that share my curiosity in elite areas like Urgoz Warren/The Deep/UW/DoA (I already soloed FoW 7h, although it took me 2 hours as opposed to the official 30 min SC because I neither knew the place nor knew which mobs to skip).

It's hard not to feel cast out in this community, though. I've played every MMO under the sun, in both hardcore progression and casual environments, but I can't say I've met people as acidic as I've met in Guild Wars. It makes me go back into the 7h isolation bubble.

Martin Firestorm · Aug 10, 2011, 09:38 PM // 21:38

It's just too old of a game to have enough people doing everything for you to have a good chance of success with random grouping, especially in elite areas. For grouping in general, the zaishen missions and bounties are worth trying. Beyond that, you really need try your luck with a guild.

Milennin · Aug 11, 2011, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucrece

I'm not a farmer. I just want to experience the surroundings and quest story. While I don't mind improving my skills for HM, I understand why I'm having difficulty with the PvE scene. Everything pretty much by now is farming and fully experienced, so there's very little people that share my curiosity in elite areas like Urgoz Warren/The Deep/UW/DoA (I already soloed FoW 7h, although it took me 2 hours as opposed to the official 30 min SC because I neither knew the place nor knew which mobs to skip).

It's hard not to feel cast out in this community, though. I've played every MMO under the sun, in both hardcore progression and casual environments, but I can't say I've met people as acidic as I've met in Guild Wars. It makes me go back into the 7h isolation bubble.

If you want to team up for DoA, I'm up for it. Should be more fun than just 7 Heroes.=p

Jeydra · Aug 12, 2011, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

I've tried with Dulled Weapon a few times, but for me it seems to work worse than Union.

The idea is to keep Shelter up as often as possible. This is very helpful in areas like Foundry HM. Union takes up ST charges and can potentially lead to Shelter dropping, with disastrous consequences. That said, if you find Union better than Dulled Weapon by all means use Union.

@Lucrece, I can't be sure since I don't play Derv, but it seems to me that your build is slightly inefficient. BiP Nec in particular is out of place - the other heroes should all be fine at managing energy, e.g. SoS has Spirit Siphon which is very powerful indeed @ 16 spec, ST has ST and probably Boon, Mesmers have the entire Inspiration line, etc. The SoS Smiter might not be necessary either since you have the RoJ Monk to maintain SoH on you. With ST, UA and RoJ Smiter you shouldn't have that much trouble staying alive. If it were I, I'd swap out the UA healer for UA Smiter with Restoration spells on the SoS (with Splinter), and then the BiP for a FoC Necro (with Mark of Pain, maybe Stand Your Ground). But like I said I'm no Derv expert; you're better off asking EFGJack. Maxing out your PvE skills will definitely help a lot too, especially Lightbringer.

Good luck

Neriandal Freit · Aug 12, 2011, 07:06 PM // 19:06

My ignorance is begging to be taken care of on this question..

As I find myself working to get a computer build and the draw of Guild Wars (and Guild Wars 2) in my world of "relaxing" again, I've begun to scan all sorts of builds, the updates, whats new, etc.

This build, this set up I mean, are we (as players playing this) expected to play each Hero on our screen or are these builds capable of self running (with perhaps monitoring the Heroes / setting up stationary points.)

Mouse at Large · Aug 12, 2011, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Generally, the most popular hero teams don't need much (if any) micromanagement.

Lucrece · Aug 12, 2011, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Lord Milennin was kind enough to show me a run through Foundry.

a) My tanking skills are bad. I was not nearly as successful at balling up opponents as he showed.

b) I should seriously consider Asuran Scan. Helps keep Save Yourselves rolling through the Blinds.

c) He did more damage than my AoB build, and my build might be the problem to begin with.

Maybe an avatar dervish isn't the optimal build for the dervish. The hero setup is also Jack's 2.0 version for Foundry HM according to his youtube channel.

The reason why I see the BiP necro there is because in DoA the amount of energy drains enemies carry alongside the ridiculous bursts means that leech signet/castigation signet/power drain are not enough to keep me rolling.

Also, the monks have strength of honor, the rit has balthazar's spirit, and the other has UA so they have reduced energy regen to prop up my melee.

I wonder how effective barrage rangers might be in DoA given that the largest threats in DoA are the powerful casters, and rangers have far better defenses against such groups.

With my current build I nearly cleared Ravenheart Gloom NM. I managed to kill the boss, but his splits and the other wraith's final splits became a legion of nasty mobs that decimated me and my group before I could even open the chest that had spawned ;(

I also need better awareness. Does Shelter realistically have the capability of staying up 24/7?

I wonder if testing an earth build with sand shards and vow of strength would be acceptable for DoA, though I find myself sticking to avatar of melandru because the caster mobs are so capable of spiking me down really fast if I maintain all of their attention, though veil of thorns/mirage cloak from earth prayers might help with that.

Milennin · Aug 12, 2011, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neriandal Freit

This build, this set up I mean, are we (as players playing this) expected to play each Hero on our screen or are these builds capable of self running (with perhaps monitoring the Heroes / setting up stationary points.)

At most I only micro the flagging, and pre-setting Spirit if I'm pulling a group. After that I just let them do their stuff on their own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucrece

With my current build I nearly cleared Ravenheart Gloom NM. I managed to kill the boss, but his splits and the other wraith's final splits became a legion of nasty mobs that decimated me and my group before I could even open the chest that had spawned ;(

I also need better awareness. Does Shelter realistically have the capability of staying up 24/7?

When the last 5 Darkness spawn, retreat to lose their agro. After that you can safely pull them 1 by 1.

If your ST Ritualist isn't being constantly harassed, it should be able to put up Shelter pretty much fulltime.=p

Lucrece · Aug 15, 2011, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Thanks Milennin for all the tips ;D <3

It feels so exhilarating when you can do this with heroes as opposed to facerolling with DwG lol

I'm still pathetic with heroes so I had to blow platinum on a conset, but I'll take my victories however I can have them.

The build that worked for me was 3 Discord necros.

OAhjUoGYIPxsjaGTaO5GmjzqKA

OAhkUsG3RFuTMzOgIkmTuhJ1uqC

OANEUshe9JFzUFgGsFqA2S4SEQA

Then two rits, one ST another SoS

OAOjEOiMJPXTjd1kZixaJlzLGA

OACjAyiDJPYzvZ0ez94seGbnJA

A panic mesmer and an ineptitude one.

OQZDAowjO0gb60z01EyALfkB

OQhkAoB8AGK0LwKACYeGJQGwy3FD

And my AoM Dervish build

OgGjkyrDLTjXSXYXieXcihWcyXA

The instinct is to steer clear of enchants or tear them down quick on my dervish to avoid his trigger.

That was actually wrong and I realized 1 minute into the fight that the way to dent him was to leave my 2 flash enchantments up without teardown so he would spend his time stripping them and less time consuming conditions and hexes.

Then he went down pretty quick.

Also, targeting the Terrorwebs before the Greater Dream Rider? Bad idea. Once I started turning my attention to the mesmer mobs first I saw a decline in those odds moments of my party seeming like it would blow up in seconds. Rage Titans>Despair>Greater Dream Rider>Terrorweb>everything else seemed to work for my setup pretty well.

Next projects for my heroes will probably be UW/The Deep. I'm really itching to do Warren with at least some heroes even.

Jeydra · Dec 06, 2011, 01:56 PM // 13:56

- Updating -

SoGM now has Fall Back main bar, Dissonance other options
UA Smiter now has Fall Back main bar, Divine Healing other options
Removed D/N Dwayna healer
More options into Dom Mes build
Added N/Rt Ravenous Gaze healer, this happened because I noticed the UA Smiter was often doing nothing and I wanted to squeeze even more power from the build. I've only played with the N/Rt a few times, but those few times included some relatively difficult areas so I'm confident enough to suggest it.

The Goat Riot · Dec 10, 2011, 12:10 PM // 12:10

hi, thank you for the great guide. i've been away from gw for about 4+ years now and it's very helpful.

i'm actually very far away from "high end," as i am early on in the nightfall campaign (haven't even gotten to the 2nd mission) and it's literally the only campaign i have access to atm with my characters (the rest are pvps from years ago). that being said, i've been using some of your hero builds as starter ideas.

i recently hit 10 and got access to MOX (and soon, melonni) and was wondering why the D/N healer was removed. is it still okay to run in normal mode, at least? i dont even have a 2nd monk yet and it seems that with my crap gear my heroes and i get curbstomped without a 2nd heal.

thanks!

Jeydra · Dec 12, 2011, 10:09 AM // 10:09

This guide actually assumes hard mode, maxed out titles, all heroes + all skills available, etc. If you don't have that, then you will necessarily have to mix and manage your heroes + their builds. I removed the D/N healer because it is largely outclassed by the UA Smiter. It is of course viable in normal mode (most things are viable in normal mode), but I've had better results with the UA Smiter in general. If you don't have a second Monk, by all means use the D/N healer. One UA Smiter cannot keep a team alive; it does not provide enough bar push. One UA Smiter + the SoS Rit, however, will be enough.

And you're welcome

Jette Antral · Jan 07, 2012, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Nice guide. Any intentions to update it with regards to the changes to hard mode and the updates to elementalist skills? I'm still running AP as I have since... well, since EotN came out, basically. I keep meaning to make a new teambuild that takes advantage of the changes, but I'm far too lazy busy. The only change I've made is a switch from Air to Earth for general use, since Churning Earth has a reasonable cast now.

This is assuming anyone thinks that the changes are even enough to displace the old builds. It's too early to tell if armor-ignoring damage will still outdo armor-respecting damage in general situations.

Xenomortis · Jan 07, 2012, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Nothing looks like it's changed enough to alter the player bar. The Invoke bar is probably weakened enough to be slotted out and nothing new for the Ele looks good enough that I think it'd find it's way in that list.
A Fire Ele might beat a Necro, just about, for a damage focused hero.

Jeydra · Jan 08, 2012, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Yes, I intend to update the guide. The nerf to Invoke and Chain Lightning cost primary Elementalists hard. The next best option to replace them is still out there, there's still a lot of ground to cover.

I don't know what the new standard will be. It's certainly possible AP Earth will take over from AP Air, although I'm doubtful. Fire Eles becoming standard is also a possibility, although there certainly are a lot of monsters who're essentially impervious to Fire (Destroyers, anyone?). I don't know. We'll see.

bhavv · Jan 08, 2012, 10:17 AM // 10:17

5 exhaustion to one skill - Chain Lightning doesnt render AP Air useless and unusable.

The previous most powerful build for elementalist primaries - E/Mo Ether Renewal prot is still completely usable, as is this less useful AP - Chain lightning build.

Life Bringing · Jan 09, 2012, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

5 exhaustion to one skill - Chain Lightning doesnt render AP Air useless and unusable.

The previous most powerful build for elementalist primaries - E/Mo Ether Renewal prot is still completely usable, as is this less useful AP - Chain lightning build.

This thread concerns a hero team, rendering ER prot mostly worthless.

Lanier · Jan 09, 2012, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Why would that make ER prot worthless? Every team (even a hero team)needs some sort of defense if you're going to prevent deaths, and ER prot is the absolutely best defensive build that there is.

HigherMinion · Jan 09, 2012, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Why would that make ER prot worthless? Every team (even a hero team)needs some sort of defense if you're going to prevent deaths, and ER prot is the absolutely best defensive build that there is.

dedicated prot/heal is very meh.

AndrewSX · Jan 09, 2012, 07:31 AM // 07:31

ST says hi.

Apart jokes, ER is...OK for protting. The build itself would be great, but hero Ai never spam as much as ER would allow them to. Also, cause you can't use always a BU, and neither expect heroes to chain Glyph of swiftness -> ER for make it perma, you must consider that it WILL be a downtime. And heroes tend to cast sooo much stuff in that seconds.

That's why ST > ER if played by heroes: their AI.

(obv, ST isn't perfect, but then what would be the balance?)