Curse

Tempo · Jan 24, 2007, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Alright, so the thing with warrior and paragon didnt play out too well.
New idea:
Warrior Dervish using the earth prayer skills for healing/ protection

here's teh build im currently running. I made it to work in both pvp and pve, but more pve,

[card]sever artery[/card] [card]gash[/card] [card]sun and moon slash[/card] [card]dragon slash[/card] [card]vital boon[/card] [card]conviction[/card] [card]healing signet[/card] and finally [card]resurrection signet[/card]

my attributes are 12 earth prayers, 12+1+1 sword mastery, and rest +1 on tactics.
i have bad armor, and good wepons, so use your judgement (bad armor means non glads[ i know dont rub it in])
test it out and any feedback would be great.
so far it seems ot be ok but again im always looking to improve!

jesh · Jan 24, 2007, 05:48 AM // 05:48

My advice is to take out all the self healing, and use a monk hero. Then put in more skills to gain adrenaline or attack speed, like Enraging Charge, Flail, For Great Justice, etc. You have two large self heals, and a skill that adds extra armor that you don't need.
I used to do the same type of thing on my warriors at one point in time. After a while I realized that most things might hit me once or twice, and then just switch aggro to a caster in my party. What good does all that self defense do when your monk is getting pounded on? Nothing. That's why people run full damage warriors. They can actually contribute to a party.
I do notice you've chosen a damage elite and some good attack skills. That's a start. Flail will help you attack and consequently gain adrenaline faster. For Great Justice! enables you to spam attack skills of your choice in a chain with Dragon Slash.
That's the direction I would take your build. Your secondary doesn't matter incredibly, but I like to use Mark of Pain sometimes when I run a Dragon Slasher. When I do, I only take two attack skills - Sun and Moon Slash, and Dragon Slash. Under an IAS I can put out tons of hits while under For Great Justice, and each one of those will be activating a Mark of Pain.
That's just one idea, there are other secondaries that you can use in other ways effectively. Some people like Consume Corpse or Inferno or a Conjure. Some people like Go For The Eyes! an almost all their characters.
Find what works best for you, but let me tell you.. a damage build is going to work more efficiently in 99% of all cases. DoA is the exception, but you should be an elementalist if you want to tank there anyways.

badboy2008 · Jan 24, 2007, 07:43 AM // 07:43

this build is looks like my new build, I just created it last week

but no HS, Grash Sever ,and and, I use axe rather thansword with this build w/D, axe is better in NF for me !
its the best dmg dealer and tank 13 strg 16 weapon, 8 eath ( good and perfect enough for warrior,get the highest defene armor ) , HP low,but I can keep myself alive, I think its good build ^_^

Reinfire · Jan 24, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Pretty much the best self-heal for a W/D is Vital Boon + Signet of Pious Light. Using healing signet on 4 tactics is a waste

I would drop Earth prayers to 9, on which this combo will heal for 318 in 3 sec for only 5 energy. You can do this only every 20 sec, but you can also can get healed for 234 every 8 sec this way with a second less cast time.

I disagree with jesh that you should let the monks do 100% of the healing, because when ur team is on heavy pressure, every bit of self-heal makes the monks work easyer (it aint easy being a good monk lol), also hero monks are stupid by nature IMO. And this is such a badass self-heal. Only disadvantage is that it takes up 2 skill slots

jesh · Jan 24, 2007, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Dunkoro and Tahlkora are not the best monks, but they're better than 90% of the players out there when set up properly.

Self healing is a waste of time on a warrior.

Tingi · Jan 24, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

jesh - yes because absolutely no one brings a Healing Signet in GvG. I mean...because if they do they are not doing their jobs properly...

IMO ALL warriors should have a self heal (heal sig). Unless in an environment like HA. What happens if you are in a PUG and you are dying of degen and your monks are down? Or if your team is being pressured? Use self healing to lift of some of the pressure that is on the monks.

If really really really really really really really really really annoys me when I see a warrior with no self heal in PvE PuG.

Effigy · Jan 24, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

The difference between PvE and GvG is splitting. In the former, your team will always be together unless they are completely stupid. In the latter, warriors will often have to fly solo or in small groups with one or no monks, so self-healing is valuable there. In PvE, Heal Sig is just costing you attribute points and 40 armor for something your monks can already give you.

Tempo · Jan 24, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

comment 1
what heppened to conviction? did we throw it out the window?
i like it personally but thats my opinion: someone please way in

comment 2:
i owuld love to see a warrior go into unwaking waters with NO self heal whatsoever (lol) good. luck. in pve and pvp it is necessary to have SOME heal, even the dragon spamers that I have seen and think are useless have lions comfort to help out when the going gets tough. in pve i have yet to see a warrior build that doesnt use something like vigerous spirit etc to help take pressure off teh monks

Effigy · Jan 24, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Apparently you haven't seen very many good warriors, then. Good players realize that this is a team game and people have different roles. A PvE warrior's role is not healing. That is the monks' role. Your job is to keep the mobs busy and help kill them. Self-heals are important in PvP skirmish and solo farming, but definitely not in group PvE.

If your monks are under too much pressure, the answer is not Vigorous Spirit. Maybe the monks need to manage their energy better. Maybe squishies on your team need to learn how to kite. Maybe your team needs a bonder. Maybe the monks aren't using protection skills effectively. Maybe your team needs wards. Maybe the warrior(s) need to work on aggro management. A W/Mo with Healing Prayers is definitely not going to solve the problem, in any case.

Tempo · Jan 25, 2007, 03:25 AM // 03:25

listen i dont want to get into an argument about whether or not you're "good" if you can play without self heal. I personally (and i believe that i am not alone in saying this) think that it is necessary. I just played through Unwaking Waters with this build (-healing sig, and with the addition of signet of pious light) it worked great. The only problem i ran into was when an interrupt missed and she got off a Scales. then dark chain lightning. i survived for quite a while WHILE THE MONKS WERE BIERNG either: REZed or REZign ppl. I would have died immediatly if i didnt have the healing (and how).
All i am saying is that i dont believe you shoudl go without any self heal, and althoug this build may seem intensive. It can LIVE. give it a try.

Also. i know that this is a team-based game.
1: try getting a group for unwaking waters in european servers (with no friends on) it's though. and for other things too, not just that mission
2: i do believe that monks have a place. but it isnt SAVING a tank. they should suppourt characters and heal where necessary. with no self heal you need a monk to devote all of their energy to you if you begin to get mobbed. then the rest of the party goes down because the monk was focusing on you...

think about it.
im not fighting about this. just trying to say what i feel.

On another note Any comments about the actual testing/trials of this build? This post wasnt actually about the role of a tank, rather the efficency of this build...

thanks!
Tempo/Mara

jesh · Jan 25, 2007, 06:41 AM // 06:41

The reason you needed a self heal in that case was because of incompetent monks. Monks shouldn't be ressing unless there is a full wipe. Why? That's time spent not supporting the team.

If you both play your team roles, as you suggest, you can get a lot more done. If the warriors are making heads fly instead of healing themselves, the monks spend less energy keeping the team alive and countering enemy damage.
This situation is more effective than trying to spread the support across multiple character slots on the team. A monk can't kill things too great, but a warrior sure can. Let them heal you, while you kill. Trust me, it works.
My main character is still a monk, and I am telling you this.

On the build - what I was trying to tell you is that you'll be more efficient if you drop the healing.

Reinfire · Jan 25, 2007, 08:54 AM // 08:54

I like to play with heroes and henchies, and eventhough I can pick the skills for my hero monk myself, it still is stupid because it cannot see patterns between skills needed to properly link them. Also I often find that in a party of 8 the first 2 dead are my monks. In that case self-heal is exremely vital.

What Effigy suggests is that if there is too much pressure on the monks, there is something wrong with the content of the team and the teams skill selection. This is very true, but when you form a party in a mission area you'll never get a perfect team with a perfect skill bar. This means its allways good to be flexible, and take a self-heal when things tend to go the wrong way

QuixotesGhost · Jan 25, 2007, 11:04 AM // 11:04

When I monk, I get really pissed when a warrior brings a self-heal over an interrupt/knock down/ or even the ability to do decent damage. If you feel it's ABSOLUTELY necessary, then perhaps a defensive stance or armor buff (only one though and only in PVE and only if you can hold aggro). You want to make a monk's life easier? Disruption, Disruption, DISRUPTION. Reduce the damage coming in, don't waste your slots on self-heals.

Tempo · Jan 25, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

alright good to know

can you suggeust some good interrupts that can go into this build? i personally don't know of any other interrupts besides distractind swing.

remember these things:
It is a W/D build. I dont want your opinion as to how to make the "better" W/x build because that was not the idea of this thread.
If you have tested this build it is easier to comment (i am not saying that oyu haven't) so please give it a try and get back to me.
Some things that i was considering adding to the build:
Ebon Dust Aura. however i don't really like this skill for warriors, it's the only thing that i could come up with for a change.
Any different skills. I don't need to keep it earth pryers (although i like them a lot) so let your mind roam.

THanks again
Tempo/Mara

Tingi · Jan 25, 2007, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effigy

The difference between PvE and GvG is splitting. In the former, your team will always be together unless they are completely stupid. In the latter, warriors will often have to fly solo or in small groups with one or no monks, so self-healing is valuable there. In PvE, Heal Sig is just costing you attribute points and 40 armor for something your monks can already give you.

Your point is well put. I personally always carry heal sig and run 16 weapon, 11 tactics and 9 str in any PvE situation (watch yourself is a great PvE skills) but thats just me I guess. However, I think that all warriors should carry a self heal in a PuG but up to them in a guild/friends group. What happens if you are in a pug and all the monk uses is Healing Breeze, heal party and heal other spamming?

Effigy · Jan 25, 2007, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Well, I did get off on a tangent about Heal Sig but I thought it should be said.

As to the build itself, it's a pretty solid tank with the ability to pump out some DPS. It does suffer a little for not having an IAS (increased attack speed), which boosts your DPS and adrenaline gain by 50%, but if you want to trade some offense for more defense then that's fine. If you were to take a self-heal, I would definitely recommend Signet of Pious Light over Heal Sig. This would save you from having to invest in a fourth attribute and it has good synergy with Vital Boon. If you decide not to go with the self-heal, then a good interrupt to take is Distracting Blow. DBlow is like a mini Cry of Frustration and can be especially useful in PvE, where enemies often bunch together. Here's what I'd recommend for the build.

W/D
Sword 12+1+1-3 (depending on preference)
Strength 8+1
Earth 10

Sever Artery or Galrath Slash
Gash or Silverwing Slash
Sun and Moon Slash
Dragon Slash {E}
Signet of Pious Light or Distracting Blow
Vital Boon
Conviction
Resurrection Signet

Tempo · Jan 25, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Great!

I'll test it out and get back to you all.
I think this build has potential (what doesn't at this point lol) and seeing as how not much W/D is out there i think it woud be fun to get this one into use (i've always wanted to be a trend setter even though im probablly not the FIRST person to think of this)
I would as i keep saying, appreciate anyone else testing to try and fine tune this build a little. If someone wants to volenteer to help out (either for me to go against or to put into action somewhere) it would help get the build tested in more places faster..,
Keep up the ideas

Tempo/Mara

jesh · Jan 25, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

If you ever find a decent monk, replace Conviction with Flail or FGJ.

A Leprechaun · Jan 26, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

To the guys who say self heal is bad: ok so i dont take one all of the time but, are you saying you never die in PvE!?! If you have, mabye would wouldnt have if you had a self heal, ok so you can blame the monks, but if you know that some monks are lmae why didnt you bring a self heal. Has you party never failed a mission?!? If they have mabye if yuou had a self heal then the monk could focus some energy on som eone else for a second and your party would not have failed.

I'm not ranting, just asking. ^^
Build looks sound, I will try it.

~A Leprechaun~

Effigy · Jan 26, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

If I die in PvE, I doubt if having -40 armor for 2 seconds would have saved me.

If my party fails a mission, it's not because I didn't have a self-heal. Usually, failing a mission results for poor playing either by one person or the party as a whole. A tank without a self-heal, in a party with 2 monks and maybe another support character, is definitely not going to be the catalyst for a party wipe.