Curse

kirch1jt · Dec 13, 2006, 03:31 PM // 15:31

this definately isnt a new build, a guildie and i have been running something really close to this (but even better) since day 1, he came up with it during the preview, back in september.

Earendil · Dec 13, 2006, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirch1jt

this definately isnt a new build, a guildie and i have been running something really close to this (but even better) since day 1, he came up with it during the preview, back in september.

A perfect example of a pointless post. What you say is that the OP is not original, he just stole (or somenow copied) your idea. On the other hand your build is the same yet better than the OPs ?! You won't share it with us (probably so we cannot steal it again), you dont comment the build's issues, you don't post a link to where you have discussed your own build....Question is - what was the point of the post ? To claim the copyright on the build ? - sorry in GW you noone will ever get copyrights for builds.

The OP has presented the build, tested it discussed strenghts and weaknesses, answered to questions (more or less relevant) - that makes him a lot more commendable in my eyes than being the "first" (such a relative issue - alpha testers have probably played many of what we currently think are original builds long before the skills were available to us).

On the energy issue - remember that at 15 mysticism, any self cast enchant effectively costs 5 energy less , assuming you have a decent pool not to run out (35-40 should probably do)

So, assuming a 20 seconds cycle, the costs of the skills are: 4*5+10(sandstorm) thats 30 energy. Natural regen of energy is 20*4/3= 27 energy. Therefore its not that energy intensive after all.

Earendil · Dec 13, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

I'm back with numbers on the damage side. My interest is in PVP and the question is whether the total damage of the setup would actually be more than the one from a regular scythe.

The average damage of a PvP scythe at 16 scythe mastery is 50 per hit (criticals are included) - did that math in another thread.

Taking a 20 secs period into account (this looks like your sandstorm cycle if I'm not wrong), and a dervish with no speed buffs or damage enhancing skills (like vow of strenght or scythe attacks) that will never hit more than one single target, he will swing about 12 times making for a total damage of about 600.

In your build there are three sources of damage: Sandstorm, damage on applying enchants and conditions. Condition damage is too difficult to compute and the apply on enchant damage is only on adjacent area. While in PvE melee monsters will attack you and stay near you, in PvP you will probably be ignored and kited - and you have no speed buff to chase a kiter. Therefore I will assume a total of 100 damage done by "on apply" enchants and conditions (I'm feeling generous

). Damage from Sandstorm is 130.

The result is that damage wise, you have to hit at least 4 foes with the sandstorm to output the same damage that a scyther with absolutely no boosts or luck (no AoE) does.

The whole point of the build would be a coordinated spike, since damage will come so fast that the enemy healers cant do their jobs. However, for 20 secs you will be harmless - they can res, heal and plan their defence.

The concept of "tank" is a nonsense in PvP. A charachter that uses 4-5 skills for his survival will just,...well...survive. To be, as you described yourself, the last survivor of the team. Then you will (eventually die) and your team will lose, regardless of how well you "tanked" in the end.

Don't get me wrong, I like the general idea. I'm trying a similar build based on Aura of Displacement and using a Mystic twister before the Sandstorm and I'm really enjoying it. However - it takes a lot of coordination to make it effective.

sinican · Dec 13, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

dbl post

sinican · Dec 13, 2006, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earendil

I'm back with numbers on the damage side. My interest is in PVP and the question is whether the total damage of the setup would actually be more than the one from a regular scythe.

The average damage of a PvP scythe at 16 scythe mastery is 50 per hit (criticals are included) - did that math in another thread.

Taking a 20 secs period into account (this looks like your sandstorm cycle if I'm not wrong), and a dervish with no speed buffs or damage enhancing skills (like vow of strenght or scythe attacks) that will never hit more than one single target, he will swing about 12 times making for a total damage of about 600.

In your build there are three sources of damage: Sandstorm, damage on applying enchants and conditions. Condition damage is too difficult to compute and the apply on enchant damage is only on adjacent area. While in PvE melee monsters will attack you and stay near you, in PvP you will probably be ignored and kited - and you have no speed buff to chase a kiter. Therefore I will assume a total of 100 damage done by "on apply" enchants and conditions (I'm feeling generous ). Damage from Sandstorm is 130.

The result is that damage wise, you have to hit at least 4 foes with the sandstorm to output the same damage that a scyther with absolutely no boosts or luck (no AoE) does.

The whole point of the build would be a coordinated spike, since damage will come so fast that the enemy healers cant do their jobs. However, for 20 secs you will be harmless - they can res, heal and plan their defence.

The concept of "tank" is a nonsense in PvP. A charachter that uses 4-5 skills for his survival will just,...well...survive. To be, as you described yourself, the last survivor of the team. Then you will (eventually die) and your team will lose, regardless of how well you "tanked" in the end.

Don't get me wrong, I like the general idea. I'm trying a similar build based on Aura of Displacement and using a Mystic twister before the Sandstorm and I'm really enjoying it. However - it takes a lot of coordination to make it effective.

well based on your comparison you give yourself the ability to be at melee range of your target for the entire duration of 20 seconds against a target that has 60AL and isn't healed to do your average of 50dmg a hit 12 times for a total of 600 dmg

so at the least given that same ability afforded to the build i posted the potential dmg given the same oportunity would be 2 cycles of sandstorm

260dmg from sandstorm
120dmg from Holy Flame
136dmg from staggering
136dmg from Dust Cloak
156dmg from bleeding (13seconds each 6dps x2)
112dmg from burning (4seconds each 14dps x2)

920dmg AoE

but we both know that both examples are hypothetical... and dont actually happen...

you have to worry about blind/block/evade/weaken affecting your dmg... I dont

Holy Flame's trigger dmg ignors armor (has been tested)

and condition damage isnt affected by AL...

we both have to worry about strafing, and healing...

but again based on potential dmg in a 20 seconds time frame... I beat your 600dmg and not just by a little.

to get a real comparision you really have to play the build and test it.

sinican · Dec 13, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earendil

A perfect example of a pointless post. What you say is that the OP is not original, he just stole (or somenow copied) your idea. On the other hand your build is the same yet better than the OPs ?! You won't share it with us (probably so we cannot steal it again), you dont comment the build's issues, you don't post a link to where you have discussed your own build....Question is - what was the point of the post ? To claim the copyright on the build ? - sorry in GW you noone will ever get copyrights for builds.

The OP has presented the build, tested it discussed strenghts and weaknesses, answered to questions (more or less relevant) - that makes him a lot more commendable in my eyes than being the "first" (such a relative issue - alpha testers have probably played many of what we currently think are original builds long before the skills were available to us).

On the energy issue - remember that at 15 mysticism, any self cast enchant effectively costs 5 energy less , assuming you have a decent pool not to run out (35-40 should probably do)

So, assuming a 20 seconds cycle, the costs of the skills are: 4*5+10(sandstorm) thats 30 energy. Natural regen of energy is 20*4/3= 27 energy. Therefore its not that energy intensive after all.

Bravo!

better yet is...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirch1jt

this definately isnt a new build, a guildie and i have been running something really close to this

it either is or isnt... if your not using the same build then how does your build make my build not new??? (note though that i didn't claim it was new and i posted it because it wasn't posted. still as far as I had known, no one was using that build)

or is this the case where people claim rights to any build that uses some of the skills they use???

guess what though.. just as Earendil said no body owns any of these builds... so... yay...

so that means you can continue pretending that you and your guildie invented a build that is close to the one i posted but NOT and continue to pretend youre l33t and special :P

jesh · Dec 13, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

shoudl should have capitalized MAXIMUM not highest... because well just because it has the highest max dmg doesn't make it the hardest hitting... your damage range on a scythe is 9-41, which gives it an average dmg of 25... compare that to a hammer which does 19-35 dmg, giving it an average damage of 27.. same attack spead... difference is that the scythe can hit up to 3 targets "adjacent" to each other... how often does this happen?? but still noteworthly.

The damage from a scythe will be higher than that of the hammer, because if you're running at 16 weapon attribute like a good little boy will, you'll critical enough to make up for the low base attack of the scythe. This is the same principle that is proven when you compare the damage of a sword and an axe. Sure, the axe has dismal base damage, but with a high critical rate this matters less and less. As for your "adjacent never happens" thing.. well you need to work on your positioning. It happens a lot if you know what you're doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

IMO blockable/evadable/dodgable attacks are not a poor arguement at all.. it is a complete concern especially with the amount of skills now that make landing a hit dificult for any meleer... any decent player has this concern on their mind... what if i cant land my hits etc..

Most melee classes couldn't give two crayons. Look at any standard warrior build, you won't see anything like Expose Defenses on there. Why? Because you can do a smart little thing called "switching tagets". Ever heard of it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

only 3 can be hit with you scythe without using a skill IF they are adjacent to each other and in front of you

Oh, is that all? These things that you dismiss so easily are what makes the dervish a melee class to be reckoned with. An "enchant build", or whatever the heck you want to call this, is far from the only viable thing to do with a dervish. If it gains popularity, that's just because it requires less brains to hit Mystic Sandstorm than to try and execute a melee spike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

with the points she made in entirety she is 99% correct... "most" scythe Dervishes cannot sustain decent amount of dmg for any period of time due to energy and attack speed related reasons (activation times/aftercast/blinded/evaded/blocked/interupted/energy) it is also my opinion that the dervish character has more potential being enchantment heavy with few scythe attacks if any at all...

they are not a warrior their attacks are all energy based and they only have a few ways to manage there small energy pool... their main attribute is based on enchantments. this should be some clue that they are intended to be more effective using the skills and the attribute in itself...

Their main attribute is energy management. If you're not creative enough to use it to create attack chains, then fine. But don't post rubbish like this on the forums, please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

so at the least given that same ability afforded to the build i posted the potential dmg given the same oportunity would be 2 cycles of sandstorm
.......................

but we both know that both examples are hypothetical... and dont actually happen...

The difference is, any build that takes advantage of the dervish as a melee class will have ways to deal with kiters and an IAS, not to mention other skills that add to your melee damage in one way or another. The 600ish damage that he mentions is from auto attacking. That's C+Space action, compared to your whole skillbar. Not to mention the OP's build gets screwed with a simple Pin Down.
You could take condition or hex removal, and a speed boost, but that's less enchants to do damage with. There's a strength to every build, but I don't see this working well outside of PvE - AKA high end PvP - where people are smart enough to kite. You can kill stupid people with it in AB, no doubt, but you can kill stupid people with just about anything.

sinican · Dec 14, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

The damage from a scythe will be higher than that of the hammer, because if you're running at 16 weapon attribute like a good little boy will, you'll critical enough to make up for the low base attack of the scythe. This is the same principle that is proven when you compare the damage of a sword and an axe. Sure, the axe has dismal base damage, but with a high critical rate this matters less and less. As for your "adjacent never happens" thing.. well you need to work on your positioning. It happens a lot if you know what you're doing.

Most melee classes couldn't give two crayons. Look at any standard warrior build, you won't see anything like Expose Defenses on there. Why? Because you can do a smart little thing called "switching tagets". Ever heard of it?

Oh, is that all? These things that you dismiss so easily are what makes the dervish a melee class to be reckoned with. An "enchant build", or whatever the heck you want to call this, is far from the only viable thing to do with a dervish. If it gains popularity, that's just because it requires less brains to hit Mystic Sandstorm than to try and execute a melee spike.

Their main attribute is energy management. If you're not creative enough to use it to create attack chains, then fine. But don't post rubbish like this on the forums, please.

The difference is, any build that takes advantage of the dervish as a melee class will have ways to deal with kiters and an IAS, not to mention other skills that add to your melee damage in one way or another. The 600ish damage that he mentions is from auto attacking. That's C+Space action, compared to your whole skillbar. Not to mention the OP's build gets screwed with a simple Pin Down.You could take condition or hex removal, and a speed boost, but that's less enchants to do damage with. There's a strength to every build, but I don't see this working well outside of PvE - AKA high end PvP - where people are smart enough to kite. You can kill stupid people with it in AB, no doubt, but you can kill stupid people with just about anything.

Ok no mater how much I'd love you tear apart your post again I'll try and stop this...

Both of your posts are completely opinionated and full of contradictory elements... re-read your posts... all of the arguements you make against the echanter have absolute affect on the Scythe as well... You cant just say well your enchanter is screwed by pin down (cripple) and not realize that so is your Scythe Derv... You also can't say that its easier to smash sandstorm than to link a Scythe spike and then turn around and comment how its easier to c+space as Scythe Derv than to use enchantments without seeing the condradictions you are making...And you can't call people stupid to actually make a valid point without realizing you made no point at all except that your the ignorant one.

you also continue to discredit because of your untested opinions, which I'm sorry has absolutely no merit...

I'm done with this discussion between you and I..

Thanks

auntie ying · Dec 14, 2006, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadav101

how ur gonna have enough energy to cast those spells?

25 is only enough for like 2-3 enhancments

1) bring a +15en staff
2) use avator of lyssa
3) heal/prot monk will give u some enchanments (aegis, rof, healing breeze etc)
4) use sandstorm once u have 4 or more enchanment
5) bring glyph of lesser energy

ogami_ito · Dec 14, 2006, 04:05 AM // 04:05

I’m don’t want to get into the discussion about whether or not a scythe build will do more damage. And the “tone” of that discussion is not very productive. I personally think that this build is not that great in most forms of PvP because a) it needs to almost completely fill up with enchants to be effective, and b) PvP almost requires a little more self-utility than this (running speed boosts, interrupts, condition removals, hex removals, etc). I think this is probably a very viable build for RA, and I’m thinking of some very cool variations that can be used in Hero Battles.

The problem with it in PvP as I see it is not so much the damage output and lack of utility as is the problem of keeping enemies in range of your “build-up” enchants. This is because you stop to cast while opponents are still moving…that ¾ second makes a big difference. And its difficult to get more than one opponent in range at a time. This is not easy in PvE as well. In PvE, for this build to really shine, you need to hit more than one mob at once at least.

I sort of tried this out in PvE yesterday, in the Barbarous Coast. Again, I don’t know if a scythe would do more damage, but this build was…FUN! Corsairs died very quickly.

I did not really use the ops exact build. In part because I did not want to buy new armor or runes…so my build is not optimized. I feel the build really needs a melee sword AND shield that both give + 5 energy. I used a wand and focus which gave a lot of +energy (because I was not going to put new insignias on my armor), but the problem with this is that without melee auto-attack, it is more difficult to get in range.

My non-optimized build had this
Myst 12, Earth 11, Wind 9

Arcane Zeal [e]
Vital Boom
Aura of Thorns
Heart of Holy Flame
Mystic Regen
Staggering Force
Mystic Twister
Mystic Sandstorm

To the OP: In PvE, use Arcane Zeal. REALLY! Every time a monk casts Reversal of Fortune on you, you get an extra 4e from mysticism, returns energy. So if a monk placed RoF and say, Aegis after you used Arcane Zeal, he just gave you 3 energy up front, pluss 8 energy when those two spells end. When you follow this chain, Mystic Twister…which does 100 damage to 5 - 6 enemies in the area, essentially only 4 or 5 energy. There is NO downtime…You run through every spell except Mystic Sandstorm in before Arcane Zeal ends, and when it ends, you get 4 energy back, giving enough to hit your Mystic Sandstorm. The whole set is ready to re-run in 15 seconds. So you are constantly activating the enchants.

The energy flow chain looks like this:
Arcane Zeal [e] -10, Vital Boom -5+1 Aura of Thorns -5+2 Heart of Holy Flame-10+3 Mystic Regen -10+4 Staggering Force -10+5 Mystic Twister -10+5 (+4 for end of Acrane Zeal) Mystic Sandstorm -10 = -40 energy in 10 seconds (not counting energy regen...later sets are slower because 15sec recharge on some enchants) This is the same net energy as using Glyph of Lesser Energy, ASSUMING monks don't add to your energy pool and efficiency by putting their enchants on you.

In a set, it does about 250 damage to adjacent enemies, plus 100 damage to up to 6 enemies in the area, + adjacent enemies are on fire for 3 seconds (51 damage), bleeding and crippled for 10 seconds (60 damage), and weakened. If Mystic Twister hits adjacent enemy, and the enemy mob did not move away from you, then on the first pass you outputted 350 damage in 10 seconds, plus another 100 damage over the next 10 seconds.

Now for some variants… I have not tried these, but I think it would work.
Replace one of the above enchants or Mystic Twister with Vow of Piety. Vow of Piety is only ¼ second cast and 5 energy, so if you replace, say Staggering Force, you probably can get all the set through (the first run anyway) before Arcane runs out. So when you hit Mystic Sandstorm, you heal 7 party members 40 hp. Meh…

BUT, replace Mystic Twister with Mystic Healing. Take a +20% to enchant time weapon. As I calculate it, before Arcane Zeal runs out on the first set, you should be able to cast Mystic Healing once. Then, instead of doing Mystic Sandstorm, re-cast Arcane Zeal, then cast Mystic Healing 3 times or so before Vital Boom ends. Mystic Healing essentially costs 0 energy with 5 enchants and if you have 6 enchants, you gain energy with each cast. You have now healed 6 party members, 3 times, for 60-70hp each time…or a total of 1080 – 1260 hit-points in 10 seconds, for 0 (or positive gain) energy. If you don’t see a good clump of opponents to Sandstorm, then let vital boom end, re-apply for 0 net energy, then re-apply Mystic Regen, then cast Mystic healing another 3-4 times.

BTW, with the above builds, its good if monks can cast some enchants on you now and then, as each time those enchants end, you get 4 energy and some health

sinican · Dec 14, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogami_ito

I’m don’t want to get into the discussion about whether or not a scythe build will do more damage. And the “tone” of that discussion is not very productive. I personally think that this build is not that great in most forms of PvP because a) it needs to almost completely fill up with enchants to be effective, and b) PvP almost requires a little more self-utility than this (running speed boosts, interrupts, condition removals, hex removals, etc). I think this is probably a very viable build for RA, and I’m thinking of some very cool variations that can be used in Hero Battles.

The problem with it in PvP as I see it is not so much the damage output and lack of utility as is the problem of keeping enemies in range of your “build-up” enchants. This is because you stop to cast while opponents are still moving…that ¾ second makes a big difference. And its difficult to get more than one opponent in range at a time. This is not easy in PvE as well. In PvE, for this build to really shine, you need to hit more than one mob at once at least.

heh its ok... and yes you are correct about the abilities in PvP... really how the build works in Higher End PvP is prepping your first sandstorm set runing in and using Thorns then releaseing your sandstorm... that imediately puts the preasure on your target with all effects and full dmg of the build... from that point "usually" your target makes a short jaunt to get some sort of healing in, at which point your thorns is ready for another go...

still can be a problem to constantly chase down kiters but absolutely can be accomplished...

the tactic my guildies and I have was for me to head for the tank right off the bat to blind him then when the casters come out to spike or monk to heal i imediated switch to that target and run in for the thorns to cripple by that time i have already preped 3 enchants then setting up throns as the 4th its already time to set sandstorm... once a caster has been crippled they don't have enough time to get out of the "nearby" range of sandstorm...

it takes a different style of play and not like what people are used to...

another good use of this build is caster cover... in all matches ive done with my teams i have all the casters know that if they are getting spiked all they need to do is run into me... i am able to target that ally at that point and simply follow them around casting my encahnts removing them with my sig setting off the effects of the enchants and the sig is healing my ally... so essentially im piggy backing the most focused on profs which they are leading me around where i need to be keeping them covered doing all my dmg and keeping them allive...

this is actually a very good use of the build... pretty much a caster body guard...

as for your other builds... good luck with them... I have done tons of testing with all mentioned there and I have found what i believe to be the most effective of this style Dervish...I enjoy playing it a lot in pve and pvp... the build does shine more so than what is percieved... but its ok, it just might be because of how different it needs to be played as a melee range dmger than what has been used for the past 2 years...

a really good way to practice with this build is when agroing a PvE mob say Kornans... go for the priests and tag them around while everything else is tackling you... I wait for my oportunities when they have to stop to cast...

in PvP if your on the healer and they have to keep moving that means i keeping them from healing and if they stop to heal that means im gonna get my way with them... its about pressure... while that healer is trying to kite me off his buddy warriors are getting a nasty taste of all my conditions and dmg as im right on his tale meanwhile the rest of my party is enjoying being able to take others out without much healing or bonding negating their dmg

and the build is damn sturdy... what a lot keep forgeting is there are way more ways to win pvp battles than outdamaging everyone else...

i would consider the build "balanced" and a decent "pressure" build

build doesnt work as well in RA as it does in TA/GvG/HA... as your team usually has little pvp experience and they themselves are setup as high dmg without any other balance

jesh · Dec 14, 2006, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

re-read your posts... all of the arguements you make against the echanter have absolute affect on the Scythe as well...

Take your own advice and read over what I said, again and again, until it sinks in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

You cant just say well your enchanter is screwed by pin down (cripple) and not realize that so is your Scythe Derv...

Read: HEX AND CONDITION REMOVAL - *Gasp* Which you'd be crazy not to do on a dervish - also;

Quote:

The difference is, any build that takes advantage of the dervish as a melee class will have ways to deal with kiters and an IAS, ...

How many times do I have to repeat myself for you to understand? We'll keep count. 2 so far.

Quote:

You also can't say that its easier to smash sandstorm than to link a Scythe spike and then turn around and comment how its easier to c+space as Scythe Derv than to use enchantments without seeing the condradictions you are making...

I made no such claim. I said that even the PIDDLY damage of C+Space compares with your build, which is very sad. Attack skills, IAS skills, and other skills that indirectly affect damage, like hex/condition removal, will boost a good scythe build way above what you can do with a build like is posted here.

Quote:

And you can't call people stupid to actually make a valid point without realizing you made no point at all except that your the ignorant one.

Funny, I don't recall insulting anyone. But thanks for the personal attack.

Quote:

you also continue to discredit because of your untested opinions, which I'm sorry has absolutely no merit...

Alright then, how about you get someone like Ensign to compare the numbers here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogami_ito

I’m don’t want to get into the discussion about whether or not a scythe build will do more damage. And the “tone” of that discussion is not very productive. I personally think that this build is not that great in most forms of PvP because a) it needs to almost completely fill up with enchants to be effective, and b) PvP almost requires a little more self-utility than this (running speed boosts, interrupts, condition removals, hex removals, etc). I think this is probably a very viable build for RA, and I’m thinking of some very cool variations that can be used in Hero Battles.

This is exactly what I was saying. RA all you want, but this is not an "awesome" build.

I stand by my stance that this build is nothing but a bad spiker, and only worthwhile in RA or PvE. Let's comprimise, shall we?

PS - If you're looking for a good scythe build to run against this in comparison, Lordhelmos has posted a bunch in the Dervish forums here that work excellent.

ogami_ito · Dec 14, 2006, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

I stand by my stance that this build is nothing but a bad spiker, and only worthwhile in RA or PvE. Let's comprimise, shall we?

My Wild Blow ends your stance.

Uh...nevermind. I have no life.

Taini · Dec 14, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

As a "close to 100% PvE" player I find this build realy intresting..
It definetly gets a "save to template"...
As sec tank in group I would go with a Scythe today.. But with this build id speed upp the killing 4sure.. I use the Totem Axe and Exhalted Aegis today for running.. nice to have other uses for them...

Many thanks..

And.. dont listen to the whiners.. if this was a case of anything else than guys with tiny pekkers they would'nt have posted in this thread..

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU SAVING BY SAYING THIS BUILD SUCKS??? (basicly)

I cant se the point.. newcomers spending cash/factions on skills?? Is that it??

Haha omg im gonna get the whip for this one!!

jesh · Dec 14, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogami_ito

My Wild Blow ends your stance.

My little brother was telling me like how his teacher at school was marking kids down for cheating.. both the cheater and the person being cheated off of. And then he was like, "And everyone around both of them... All nearby foes!"
I laughed so hard. XD

Beat_Go_Stick · Dec 14, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

My little brother was telling me like how his teacher at school was marking kids down for cheating.. both the cheater and the person being cheated off of. And then he was like, "And everyone around both of them... All nearby foes!"
I laughed so hard. XD

Little brother? He'd have to be, what, 11 or less right? :P

Try not being an arse about your opinions. It works just as many wonders online as it does in the world outside the internet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru

The Campfire
PvE Builds and Discussion
Share your strategies, experience and tips here for builds and groups for PvE.

In PvE, this is a great build. Defensive yet mid-high damage vs. the AI enemy. An interesting twist for those who don't like seeing the scythe animation over and over and over throughout the whole game. It's inventive and effective. No need to be a jerk.

In PvP, he's already stated that he really only tested it in RA and that he didn't consider it a real PvP test. He also agreed that it was not a build for high end PvP so I don't really know what more you'd want from him aside from an outlet for your aggression.

Just take a deep breath and relax. There's no reason to prove John Gabriel correct here (not that it needs any more proof to be true in any case).

jesh · Dec 14, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

I'm sorry, I feel the need to respond when I see things that are obviously untrue on forums, where unsuspecting new players can read them and take them for fact. I'm not whining, I'm not making personal attacks, (like a few other people are), I'm simply pointing out fallacies in what's been written. People take offense to that, I guess, because they're wrong.

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I beat your 600dmg and not just by a little.

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i asked them to throw away their green end-game sycthe XDDD)

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since then and abandoned the Scythe line completely. Blows the current build out of the water

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I have tried many of the dervish builds in this forum but their build cannot give very high damage. After some invesgation i found that the problem is dued to the using of sycthe :
i) the damage of sycthe is low,
ii) the speed of sycthe is low,
iii) many enemies have high physical defense,
iv) enemies can block your physical attack,
v) too little enemies got hit by sycthe

It make me wanna cry that the overall damage of dervish is so poor.

Sinican's build is really good that it
1) give high damage,
2) give me many en to cast spells not-stoply,
3) quite easy to survice in many cases(coz the enemis got blinded)

.......... I have tested it in CH2 & 3 and I think it is a really good damage dealer.

These are flawed statements, and what I quoted up in my first post in this thead are also, for reasons I've discussed. Want me to post something more constructive? Fine.

*Use an elite.
*Drop the warrior secondary, you can still use a shield at half benefit like so many Mo/As do.
*Take a skill like Aura of Displacement or Shadow Prison, this will help prevent kiting and increase your actual damage ouput.
*AoD has the advantage of acting as an enchant for Mystic Sandstorm.
*Fit in a res somehow.

P.S.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat_Go_Stick

Try not being an arse about your opinions.

There aren't really opinions when discussing Guild Wars builds. Almost everything can be proven through math.

The exceptions are where you have something that can't be quantified, like hex removal, or the effect of a cripshot ranger on an enemy team. The effect of a speed boost skill on a kiting target..

When saying something like, "my dervish pbaoe build is better than using a scythe", you can't just take it as opinion. This can be proven/disproven with simple math.

Saider maul · Dec 14, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

I'm going to stay out of the arguing because i know when and where this build was first posted and By whom. This build was put together during the first preview Based off the CoPway Dervish that destroyed halls during beta testing.

I see 1 major flaw and 1 possible minor one.

Major flaw.....is signet of poise light. good yes But I draw your attention to ViM. With Victory is mine you yeild an additional 20-25e and 160-200hp.
This now makes everything on your bar spammable.

Possible minor flaw. Dust cloak. its good if your team need anti melee conditions but its earth dmg. If you do not need to spec for melee then zealous renewal is a better choice. it is holy dmg and it yeilds energy when it ends based on number of hits you make.

But ty for the post. Hope you try my suggestions.

Enjoy.

Beat_Go_Stick · Dec 14, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

I'm sorry, I feel the need to respond when I see things that are obviously untrue on forums, where unsuspecting new players can read them and take them for fact. I'm not whining, I'm not making personal attacks, (like a few other people are), I'm simply pointing out fallacies in what's been written. People take offense to that, I guess, because they're wrong.

P.S.

There aren't really opinions when discussing Guild Wars builds. Almost everything can be proven through math.

The exceptions are where you have something that can't be quantified, like hex removal, or the effect of a cripshot ranger on an enemy team. The effect of a speed boost skill on a kiting target..

When saying something like, "my dervish pbaoe build is better than using a scythe", you can't just take it as opinion. This can be proven/disproven with simple math.

All I'm saying is you can post in a way that makes people enjoy reading what you say or you can post in a way that makes people think you're a jerk. Look at all the rest of the criticism on this thread and look at how it was responed to: polite response -> polite response.......impolite -> often polite response ending in "I'm done talking to you" *shrug*

And with that, I'm done talking to you

kirch1jt · Dec 15, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

im not claiming i was the creator either(i can 100% say i was not), im just saying i have seen a better way to run this and it IS posted already in these forums (back in september like i said). ViM