Curse

WarKaster · Mar 02, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

would have your enchantments stripped easy or shattered.You are tying to prove that there is no role for Warriors in GW alas you are wrong as you are just a Assassin with a sycthe.

Unless your coming at some one with a Necro or Mesmer secondary its not going to happen and even then most people who know to play a dervish can cover up vital enchantments to the point where enchantment shattering is more a nuisance than a problem. Second, as to everything I have read no one has said that there is no room for Warriors in GW. In fact quite the contrary, everyone here seems to think that both professions compliment one another and make up for each others short comings. But for some reason seem to have a big ass chip on your shoulder that Warriors are no longer the only front-line melee class in GW. All he stated was as a Warrior your skills would be limited by the simple fact that there are more condition causing skills available to a Dervish than Warrior one of them being a blind, and as we all know is devastating to both warriors and dervishes alike because it can be so easily re-applied after the condition was removed. st0b0's statement about EDA are correct with only two attack skills he can prema-blind you and with you having a mesmer or necromancer secondary to shatter or rend enchantments, chances are there will be no skill on your bar for condition removal and when any melee profession is blinded they can't do their job.

Xiaxhou of Trinity · Mar 03, 2007, 01:59 AM // 01:59

lol couldn't find thom's post that made trix say "you're dumb quit the game" which is a bummer. it's also hilarious how half the pages of this thread is nothing but full on flames. Nice henching Crom, I don't think I could bring a full hench group for missions, i need my heroes with me lol.

Str0b0 · Mar 03, 2007, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I still doudt this if the Warrior you took on lost he wasn't all that good now was he and I would have your enchantments stripped easy or shattered.You are tying to prove that there is no role for Warriors in GW alas you are wrong as you are just a Assassin with a sycthe.

I'm still wondering where you get all this enchant stripping from? If you seriously have the energy pool and the strips and shatters on a warrior I'd love to take you 1v1. I just don't see a warrior being able to consistently strip enchants at the rate a dervish can put them on. Mysticism plus a natural energy regen of 4 pips means a dervishes energy pool will regenerate faster than a warriors. You might get two of them stripped before you would take the initial hit and then that would blind you rendering you ineffective and my enchantments a moot point. If you can't hit me then why do I need to maintain them all? All I would have to maintain at that point would be my intervention, mystic regen and EDA. The other ones are just fluff. I'm not saying that a warrior has no place in the game but you're trying to tell me that a W/Me would be able to do the happy stompy dance on a Dervish in 1v1 and I'm sorry but that's just not the case and I'll happily put my money where my mouth is in game anytime you feel froggy. You can test your hypothesis but I think you'll find it is flawed and seriously flawed at that. You would need 3 professions on one character to be able to survive a 1v1. Warrior for damage. Mesmer to strip enchants, or necro. Finally a monk to keep you alive because heal signet won't cut it.

That's why Dervish are so nice. They can do all of that without even going into a secondary profession. I can strip enchants if need be, heal myself, and dish out insane damage. Is there a place for warriors? Absolutely. Are warriors the end all be all melee class? Not by a long shot.

LightningHell · Mar 03, 2007, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I still doudt this if the Warrior you took on lost he wasn't all that good now was he and I would have your enchantments stripped easy or shattered.You are tying to prove that there is no role for Warriors in GW alas you are wrong as you are just a Assassin with a sycthe.

Somebody in Glad's Arena summed it up quite well.

Dervish in form wins the Warrior.

Dervish out of form loses from the Warrior.

I'm using builds that actually are usable outside from 1v1, so...Although 1v1 is nowhere to prove anything. And I don't see where your enchantment stripping comes from.

Dross · Mar 03, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I still doudt this if the Warrior you took on lost he wasn't all that good now was he and I would have your enchantments stripped easy or shattered.You are tying to prove that there is no role for Warriors in GW alas you are wrong as you are just a Assassin with a sycthe.

Where the hell is this "shattering" coming from? a warrior with full radiants and an attunement can shatter, what, TWICE?!? Ur having some major energy problems there. Taking enchant strips or shatter on a warrior is not a good idea- i've never succeeded in doing anything useful with strips and shatters on my warrior. And assassins don't suck: perhaps they are harder to play in PvE, but now that u are talking of 1v1 fights (implausible btw) an assassin can probably own any char by a long shot. Although u MIGHT kill the assasin, atleast 8 times out of 10, you willl be dead before the assassin.

strcpy · Mar 03, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

There are only a VERY small handful of enchant removals a warrior can bring that really *may* hurt a Dervish. Corrupt Enchantment[e], Discharge enchantment (if the warrior also hexes you before hand). All of these are cheap enough for a warrior to use and have a short enough recharge that if the dervish didn't know how to use cover enchants it could work.

There are a few that I wouldn't like to see: Lyssa's Balance, Rend Enchantments, Gaze of Contempt, Rending Sweep (assuming the warrior hexes). These pretty much remove all enchants or can nearly effectively do so.

Those two classes are most likely going to be loosing simply because you spend all you time and all you energy trying to strip my enchants. Without disabling them I can recast them in a few seconds anyway and I *will* greatly outpace a warriors ability to strip them. Heck, one-on-one I would outstrip the ability of almost any profession that is just stripping them (a mesmer can throw in hexes to stop that though - but of course the memser is the God of one-vs-one).

There are a grand total of two that could shut down the Dervish enchants - Avatar of Grenth and Rending Aura. Amusingly enough those are two dervish skills, I do not think one will get much sympathy if they depend on on dervish skills to beat a dervish primary. Plus without Myst you AoG wouldn't last long enough to matter.

Shutting them down takes at least two characters. Either two that interleave enchant removal so that they effectively half the recharge time or paired with hexes that keep us from putting them back up (backfire, diversion, etc). I actually tend to more fear things like Desecrate Enchantments that add a lot of armor ignoring damage per enchant. But then, that takes a necro primary to use it with enough damage and other primaries have skills that cause a dervish to quake in fear also (such is life in a balanced game - every class has something that does that to them).

Van vincing · Mar 04, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Remember that dervishes benefit from both the enchantment n the end of the enchantment (sumtimes strippin enchantment from dervishes r not such a good idea such as vital boon, the short recharge n the massive health gain when it ends) Also, the great thing about dervishes are that they can become other classes with their forms, although sum ppl think the recharge rate is long, but once the form ends, n before u knw it its redy for use again. Also forms r one of the best elites in GW.

Balthazar (+40 armour, u reduce dmg u take by nearly a half)
dwayna( hex n self heal, mesmers n necros worse enemies, sumtimes warriors too
Lyssa (Insane dmg to sumone activating a skill, when i was cappin lyssa i had to time my spells so tht she wont hit me when i do cast it)

So in the end dervishes r one of the best characters, but everyone can beat dervishes with the rite build n dervish can beat everyone wif the rite build. So there isn't actually a more elite class

Dross · Mar 04, 2007, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I still doudt this if the Warrior you took on lost he wasn't all that good now was he and I would have your enchantments stripped easy or shattered.You are tying to prove that there is no role for Warriors in GW alas you are wrong as you are just a Assassin with a sycthe.

Age, anyone with half a brain is not trying to prove that there is no place for warriors in GW. Not to mention it seems that quite a few people here are trying to prove that there is no place for DERVISHES in GW. At the end of the day, every class has its own weaknesses and strengths: people just have to know what they are.

Darkpower Alchemist · Mar 04, 2007, 05:05 AM // 05:05

I found a skill in the dervish wind line that seems to help a great deal against most derv builds.

[skill=big]Rending Aura[/skill]

This is the only enchant strip I would use for the majority of dervish builds. My warrior now acts like a reverse Grenth.Hit me and lose an enchantment, don't hit me and you die. If anyone wants to counter a derv enchanment build, then look into the derv lines of skills to do it.

[skill=big]Test of Faith[/skill]

Even [skill=card]Empathy[/skill],[skill=card]Rending Touch[/skill],[skill=card]Drain Enchantment[/skill],etc. can be used to put some pressure on a heavy derv enchantment build. however, to kill a derv, I say look into the derv line.

BTW, I have beaten Dervs in and out of Form with my warriors, so it is very doable,save maybe against Mystic regenration with heavily layered enchantments. Then, the rending aura is my answer. Grenth would then be the counter, but once the Grenth form ends, the derv is in deep trouble.

strcpy · Mar 04, 2007, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

I found a skill in the dervish wind line that seems to help a great deal against most derv builds.

Possibly from a few posts above you

Though I will have to admit I just looked at wiki in their "enchant stripping" part. How well it works in practice - well I do not know. One on one against a derv I would guess fairly decent, in a team build not so much. It is one enchant and easily gone

"If anyone wants to counter a derv enchanment build, then look into the derv lines of skills to do it."

Primary Mesmers do a decent job too. The Dervish *should* have been the single greatest buff to them in the game (A SF ele the second). Too much good hate the mesmer can throw at one - mele + enchant + spells should *scream* mesmer.

Quote:

BTW, I have beaten Dervs in and out of Form with my warriors, so it is very doable,save maybe against Mystic regenration with heavily layered enchantments. Then, the rending aura is my answer. Grenth would then be the counter, but once the Grenth form ends, the derv is in deep trouble.

I would guess that few are arguing that a Derv *always* wins in a one-on-one (if they are, I would highly disagree with that). I've argued for quite a while it is 6 of one, half a dozen of another. Does the Dervish pack anti energy or adrenaline? Does the warrior counter a wind or earth build? Should the Dervish worry with enchants or stances? Will the warrior really need to cope with stances? All of those factor in - what destroys a Avatar of Melandru Dervish is *totally* different than what destroys a heavy mystic regen/aura of thorns/armor of sanctity Dervish. What destroys an eviscerate warrior is really different than what kills a W/R stance warrior.

That is a large part of why what happens one-vs-one is irrelevant in a team based game. The other is that a Mesmer is God in one-vs-one - while I find a Mesmer quite useful in PvE also their lack of one-vs-many hurts them in much of the game (not a knock against Mesmers - I have one I enjoy immensely). No one argues that because they rule in one-vs-one they are the strongest class in the game and a team of all them would *ROCK*. Yet they do of their own preferred class. One must assume that the argument is used either as a troll (trying to get responses) or they are simply that ignorant.

I'll finish this article with a favorite phrase of mien in this situation: Ahh well.

Str0b0 · Mar 04, 2007, 04:42 PM // 16:42

I'm not arguiing that dervish always wins 1v1 but I am saying that versus a warrior dervish wins at least 9 out of 10 times. That's without a form. Forms are useful but if you're going up against another straight melee class EDA owns their soul. EDA is the bane to every melee class. Blind is the single most devastating condition a melee char can get slapped with. It pretty much shuts them down. My offer is open though. If Age would like to try his warrior against my dervish in a 1v1 I'll be happy to demonstrate my points.

Mickey · Mar 05, 2007, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I'm still wondering where you get all this enchant stripping from? If you seriously have the energy pool and the strips and shatters on a warrior I'd love to take you 1v1. I just don't see a warrior being able to consistently strip enchants at the rate a dervish can put them on. Mysticism plus a natural energy regen of 4 pips means a dervishes energy pool will regenerate faster than a warriors. You might get two of them stripped before you would take the initial hit and then that would blind you rendering you ineffective and my enchantments a moot point. If you can't hit me then why do I need to maintain them all? All I would have to maintain at that point would be my intervention, mystic regen and EDA. The other ones are just fluff. I'm not saying that a warrior has no place in the game but you're trying to tell me that a W/Me would be able to do the happy stompy dance on a Dervish in 1v1 and I'm sorry but that's just not the case and I'll happily put my money where my mouth is in game anytime you feel froggy. You can test your hypothesis but I think you'll find it is flawed and seriously flawed at that. You would need 3 professions on one character to be able to survive a 1v1. Warrior for damage. Mesmer to strip enchants, or necro. Finally a monk to keep you alive because heal signet won't cut it.

That's why Dervish are so nice. They can do all of that without even going into a secondary profession. I can strip enchants if need be, heal myself, and dish out insane damage. Is there a place for warriors? Absolutely. Are warriors the end all be all melee class? Not by a long shot.

That pretty much sums it up, seriously.

Lincoln Gannon · Mar 06, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

I'm a bit confused about all this discussion of one-on-one fights. Are you guys talking about a PvP match where two people have gotten separated from their teams, or are the last two standing? Or do you mean an actual GvG match with only one player on each side? I had assumed the former, since that would at least make some kind of sense, but the more I read the more it sounds like you're discussing the latter. I've never heard of anyone staging one-on-one fights, unless maybe out of boredom, but intuitively I think it's pretty obvious that the winner would be the player who most accurately guesses what his opponent will bring, regardless of class.

On top of that, it seems like an arbitrary and pointless thing to argue you about. You might as well argue about the best way to solo Charr. There's no right answer, it's argument for the sake of arguing.

strcpy · Mar 07, 2007, 06:05 AM // 06:05

One-on-one are generally done through the guild thing. Never done one though.

As I said - there is one class that will *always* dominate in one-vs-one and that is a Mesmer. Empathy, backfire, blackout, diversion, and a few other spells make it so you can not remove a hex, attack, cast a spell, stand still, or do anything without taking huge damage. They are, without a doubt, Kings and Queens of one-vs-one - of course that is what they are meant to do (shutdown any one mob/character). At that point they could wand you to death - easily doable in eight skills and is a general build.

Given that, how one-vs-one relates to real world gaming is, well, not. A team of 8 memsers do not rule everything nor are they the strongest class out there. They just happen to be really really really good at attacking a single target.

Even if you assume the scenario where they just end up separated it *still* means nothing. With my heroes I have some really great builds. Armor of Sanctity with a Searing Flame ele and a Blazing "They're on Fire" paragon come to mind. Since my Dervish has absolutely no means to cause conditions it is a crap skill if I were to get separated from the two fire causing members - however with constant burning I get 52% damage reduction and -16 damage reduction - makes it really easy for almost *anything* to tank. So - is that a strong build or not? Since it clears any section of the game I've given a go (except DoA) I would say yea - but by herself the Dervish is somewhat crappy. You should never leave your team in that fashion anyway (flag runners do not - they do not engage in one-on-one fights to death with no team mates).

But then, this is the internet and some of us enjoy arguing so these threads go on even if they are mostly worthless(note that I sometimes like arguing and hence my posts on this subject).

Noz Crow · Mar 07, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11

I saw a dervish/ele with obsidian flesh take on 4 warriors in random arena and they could not out damage his regen. It was amazing then they just quit. Our other 2 players quit at the start and i was the monk. So we won after about 10 minutes of the complaining and calling him a noob. I spent most of the time running from the one warrior and not having to heal him a bit.

Mickey · Mar 08, 2007, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noz Crow

I saw a dervish/ele with obsidian flesh take on 4 warriors in random arena and they could not out damage his regen. It was amazing then they just quit. Our other 2 players quit at the start and i was the monk. So we won after about 10 minutes of the complaining and calling him a noob. I spent most of the time running from the one warrior and not having to heal him a bit.

Easy pie for a dervish to upkeep enchants. Obsidian flesh = pwnage, unless one of the warrior brought an aoe enchant strip

Darko_UK · Mar 08, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Mystic Vigor, Mystic Regeneration, Conviction, Faithfull intervention, Zealous Renweal, Mystic Sweep, Generic Rez

Am I missing somthing?

Age · Mar 10, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25

I am talking about [skill]Strip Enchantment[/skill] from and if blind there is [skill]Mending Touch[/skill]

What really annoys me about the Derv is how they won't give up on getting an invite to a party especially the on in the Gates of Madness.When I played my Monk I casted Protective Spirit on the Derv more than the Warrior alas like the Assassin in Factions and I would still say if what you are saying is true and they can do the Droks and Warriors can't do the it then the Derv. is still in need of some balancing.

When playing in Faction and you didn't invite an Assassin they gave up as i have never seen such disorganised paries with say 3 Dervs on which I Monked didn't make it.It is different when you look at it through Monks PoV.

strcpy · Mar 10, 2007, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Good luck with energy management there, 10e to strip a *single* enchant and 5e for the blind one dervish can place on you every few seconds? Yep, that huge energy pool is going to be gone *fast* no matter what energy management scheme you use (well, except for the management of not casting them).

Plus 20 second recharge and strips *one*enchant and you think it can shut down a Dervish? Apparently you know VERY little about Dervish enchants. Heck, it takes 2 or three necro's with Chilblains (8 second recharge and strips two) to keep them stripped off and then they have to focus on doing only that, how this is expected too I have no idea. Without some form of e-denial or something like Diversion you can not even *hurt* my enchant process with this - about the only thing you could hope to slow down is my IAS (assuming I take it, as it actually has a long enough recharge to not want it stripped).

Yea, if you run into a stupid Dervish that takes all the long enchants and has no earthly idea of what a "cover" enchant is then you may hurt their enchants, but then only for a very short period of time. If you depend on casting then you are going to run out of energy *quick*, if you are an adrenaline build then you better be building it instead of trying to cast spells - either way you have no means of shutting down my enchants or keeping conditions off of you while giving damage.

I truly hope this is more of a troll post than someone who really thinks that this is an effective counter to a Dervish. There are Warrior builds I am sure can beat a Dervish (assuming both are relatively skilled players - idiots are pretty much always easy to beat) - there are definitely some spike builds that should be able to do it with a little bit of luck, but a warrior shutting down a Dervishes enchant system is - well - laughable. I would have more faith in a Hamstorm build killing me.

The Real Roy Keane · Mar 10, 2007, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I'm not arguiing that dervish always wins 1v1 but I am saying that versus a warrior dervish wins at least 9 out of 10 times. That's without a form. Forms are useful but if you're going up against another straight melee class EDA owns their soul. EDA is the bane to every melee class. Blind is the single most devastating condition a melee char can get slapped with. It pretty much shuts them down. My offer is open though. If Age would like to try his warrior against my dervish in a 1v1 I'll be happy to demonstrate my points.

What will beating a melee character in a 1v1 using a blindbot prove?