Curse

Crom The Pale · Dec 15, 2006, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Yes I can and do use D/W for distracting blow, but what happens when I use D/ranger or D/Necro or D/Elemental or D/Monk?

Warriors do have an Elite interupt, Skull Crack that causes dazed. Yes it needs adren to work so its not as good as broad head arrow.

You can doubt my builds(of which ive only listed a miniscule part not even all my skills or how they work) all you like, but ive proven over and over again that they work if you understand how to use the skills.

Lasty as for my Dervish being able to solo Glint with the aid of hench -
and the help of a war interupt....

Had to work a lot this week and then there was getting to the desert and ascending but I managed to get the job done.

Thats one nasty skill Glint has that causes exhastion...nearly did me in, but as you can see..10% bonus and no dp!

jesh · Dec 15, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Crom, I UNDERSTAND your skill builds, I just think they are very very sub optimal.
Beating Glint? Whoopdeedoo. She doesn't even have 10k hp anymore. You could probably beat her with nothing but a res on your bar. It's PVE! Anything works!
My little brother beat the game on his monk without using a skill once.
There's a difference between what works, and what works best.

Crom The Pale · Dec 16, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Beating Glint was just an answer to a challenge in this thread, not meant to prove anything.

As for my builds everyone has there own play style, mine work for me. They may not work for you. Same holds true for your builds.

The 'best' build is the one you can use to have the most fun.

I often find that Meteor Shower + Glyph of Essence + StoneFist gauntlets and a skill bar full of adren axe attacks on my Warrior gives me 'optimal' crowd control, knockdowns, interupts and damage.

For my Dervish i've not found a 'optimal' build I can use anywhere but I've found that it is very versitile and can run many diffent builds with equal sucess.

The build I used against Glint was actually a bad build to be honest, VoS is useless against her/him? due to Glints attacks being skills not spells. However for a nice VoS build I do swap in "Watch Yourself!" and Lions Comfort for the two war attacks.

To complete the thought this thread began with...

The truth about the Dervish is that it can mold itself to many diffent roles in an organized team. Be it as a high armor tank with elemental or war secondary skills or for condition spreading using ranger/necro skills or even back up healing with some monk/rit skills. All of these are complimented nicely by the existing Dervish skills and make it a very versitle profession.

LifeInfusion · Dec 20, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Th eproblem isn't that Dervishes are weak. There are just too many of them!

Van vincing · Feb 19, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

If ppl fink dervishes are based on enchancement then they shud try removal their any of their enhancement and see wht happens (vital boon, stagger force, better to keep their enchancement on than off dun u fink???

)

G4ymBoy · Feb 19, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van vincing

If ppl fink dervishes are based on enchancement then they shud try removal their any of their enhancement and see wht happens (vital boon, stagger force, better to keep their enchancement on than off dun u fink???

)

Grammer just went out the window...Dervishes are good with enchantment manipulation is what i think he is trying to say. Rending vital boon and staggering force can be very beneficial and we all know there are some great enchant rending skills on the dervish, this screams "manipulate your enchants when you play a dervish..."

Van vincing · Feb 20, 2007, 05:16 AM // 05:16

LOL the answer to why ppl dun want u is probably because they already have like 3 dervishes in their team.

Sum players knw wht dervishes can do (heal, dmg, tank) so if they already have a dervish healer they re probaly lookin for a pure monk healer, dervishes can become other classes, except they wont be exactly like those classes (pure tanker, pure healer) but their ability with avatars and other skills can easily take over other class skills (like heart of fury, every melee class want it) or even the avatars (Im sure casters and rangers wud love to have lyssa)

So dun worry, dervishes are one of the strongest class there'll ever be

PS: u have no idea how many monks are dyin to be able to get avatar of dwyna and how many warriors wud luv to see wht happens if they can use avatar of balthazar

Xiaxhou of Trinity · Feb 21, 2007, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho^

Yeh same here,
When I first made my dervish it was almost impossible to get in a party.
For every mission I spent lik 40-50 mins looking for a groud.
But now that I finished the game and decided to start PvP, its much easier to get into a party in TA and HA if you're a Dervish.

Well welcome to the club. The thing is that, like in HA and GvG, there is always a "meta", or build/class combo that seems to "dominate" and is popular. A while back, people used to think that only a N/Mo could MM, and anything else was nooby. They woudln't take warriors unless they were whammos. Mesmers were shunned by PvE. Only a few people actually saw through this stereotyping, hence the mesmers that have survived since then (just one example). Recently, with new updates and etc, groups seem to be taking anything and everything (though I suppose assassins and dervishes are being resented). Paragons sometimes have trouble finding groups too, since they say "oh monks can heal better than them" or "just get a ranger". Something the GW PvE community experiences, but I see is slowly dying away. One problem I see with PvE atm is finding groups, since people are becoming spread out through the campaigns. Soon many outposts and missions will be near empty with all the new campaigns (solution?)

RVallant · Feb 21, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Well I rolled with a dervish (still do it's my new main class) and the survivability is there, considering I almost got Survivor with him. I rolled with him all the way up through the second mission without dieing in starter armour. I'm convinced if I had bothered to upgrade the armour then he wouldn't have been killed at the end-of-mission boss, but I digress it's not too difficult with a dervish thus far, also it wasn't as if I was even trying to survive in the first place it just happened to be there.

Also while the Dervish's strength AND weakness happens to be enchantment based it's other strength lies in it's versatility. You don't have to run an enchantment heavy Dervish and in situations where enchantment stripping is common place then targetting and taking out said enemies is usually the way to go.

Considering a monk or any other class being stripped of enchantments that it relies on will usually result in severe difficulties I think a Dervish doesn't get impacted so much seeing how when an enchantment is stripped off a Dervish they're getting healed and free energy into the mix, often enough health and energy (unless you're skimping on Mysticism in which case, why are you bothering here?) that you're being given an early-warning/free buff up to take out said enchantment removing enemies.

The only time an enchant stripping area will wipe you is if you happen to solo with an enchant heavy build. GW is a team game so your henchmen and partymembers should be aware and there to make up for your shortcomings there in the same way that you would for them (i.e. Chilblains enemies are always a priority interupting target for Jin).

In regards to versatility, running a scythe build is another alternative to running an enchant build so it's a moot point anyway and I really don't see the arguement for it. Ok fair enough I may be new to the class and still getting to grips with it but I don't struggle with enchantment stripping thus far and I know that to run around like a moron with an enchant-heavy build in danger areas is going to get me in trouble so I don't do it :P

strcpy · Feb 21, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

The only time enchant stripping really gets tough is if there is a lot of it - every once in a while you will get a spawn that has 4-6 necro's with Chilblains that decide you are an easy target - you better have an alternate way to survive or just leave the fray for a moment and let a couple get killed.

The thing I like about it is that where we are weak warriors are strong, where warriors are weak we are strong, and most of the game we are about equal. So it meshes well to have one Dervish and one Warrior for tanks.

ArKaiN · Feb 22, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

The only time enchant stripping really gets tough is if there is a lot of it - every once in a while you will get a spawn that has 4-6 necro's with Chilblains that decide you are an easy target - you better have an alternate way to survive or just leave the fray for a moment and let a couple get killed.

The thing I like about it is that where we are weak warriors are strong, where warriors are weak we are strong, and most of the game we are about equal. So it meshes well to have one Dervish and one Warrior for tanks.

I'm sorry, but is this really what happens?
In my experience, unless you have like 12 mysticism(even then, actually. it`s not like 4 energy's a lot), and mystic vigor and/or regeneration gets stripped in the middle of a big battle, I either have no energy to recast it (because I mistakingly spent it spamming attacks) or I just die from my low armor combined with no regen. People keep harping about how we have 4 pips of regen and mystic regeneration, but lets face it, thing aren't always ideal, and when they aren't, warriors are still sitting behind that huge armor. Derishes CAN be built around being a good tank, but given the same player skill, I do belive warriors are better suited for this purpouse. It's a trade really, we get worse tankability but we get high damage+aoe.

Age · Feb 23, 2007, 12:04 AM // 00:04

This is what I think of the Dervs yes they are a lot like the Sins with 70al armour and being in melee range as with Sins they can do thier hit and runs shadow fo haste.Dervs don't do nearly as much dmge as a Warrior can.The only real problem is putting a balanced group together and when I was playing my Monk through game they were clicking on me left right and centre even worse than Sins in Factions.You must not forget those few Mesmers over in cornor that need to get through the game and can be very usefull especially in the Gates of Madness.

Balanced groups is the real proplem lets hope Anet doesn't make these type of char agian or none at all.There just isn't enough of us Monks to go around.

CagedinSanity · Feb 23, 2007, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I think I have missed something entirely. I never had much of a problem finding a group (got NF on December), untill I get to certain areas where there's like, 5 people. Can't get a group there!

Perfected Shadow · Feb 23, 2007, 02:00 AM // 02:00

The truth about Dervishes? They kick ass, it's the only prof I managed to reach Legendary Survivor with. Only the master difficulty quests gave me large trouble and I haven't finished all those yet ><. I played through Factions and NF, almost always being the only melee char in every quest/mission. It helps a being the only tank because Earth enchantments + Monk Prot enchantments + solid Monk healing makes you quite unbreakable.

Divine Soldier · Feb 23, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12

I'm new but with only basic spells and level 13 i hit extremely well rivaling my friend's level 20 W/Mo. I am a Scythe master and I dont have he best armor or the best scythe, bt you know what? I still don't suck i can kill 4 level 11 Skales in one hit. Also i have non trouble finiding a group, in fact people want to group with me.

RVallant · Feb 23, 2007, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArKaiN

I'm sorry, but is this really what happens?
In my experience, unless you have like 12 mysticism(even then, actually. it`s not like 4 energy's a lot), and mystic vigor and/or regeneration gets stripped in the middle of a big battle, I either have no energy to recast it (because I mistakingly spent it spamming attacks) or I just die from my low armor combined with no regen. People keep harping about how we have 4 pips of regen and mystic regeneration, but lets face it, thing aren't always ideal, and when they aren't, warriors are still sitting behind that huge armor. Derishes CAN be built around being a good tank, but given the same player skill, I do belive warriors are better suited for this purpouse. It's a trade really, we get worse tankability but we get high damage+aoe.

It's not like Dervishes have a lot of energy in the first place anyway, 25 energy, 4 pips of regen, you're gaining four per enchantment stripped with the regen on and hey presto you've got 5 energy right there which, as you should know is what most of the low-end enchantments/attacks/whatever cost to cast (Avatar of Dwayna being a plain on wild self-healing hex breaker for that 5 energy too.)

I understand things aren't always ideal in the battlefield, but then why are you spamming skills/attacks/enchants rather than taking into account what's going on before you do so? You should never really be out of energy with a dervish peroid even if you only use two or three enchantments that's 12 energy back right there when they've gone down, enough to either wipe out the threat or re-apply important enchantments (heck by the time you've put on Mystic Regen, you've got the energy for mystic vigour) and let's not forget Signet of Pious Light or Vital Boon, the former can end whatever you have left in your favor while vital boon is a 5e heal right there.

Still, I do agree Warriors have more viable tanking options and Dervishes can be a tempermental class in the wrong situations (what class isn't though?)

Dross · Feb 23, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

I've found that dervishes are very good at staying alive, if u know how to play them. And dervishes are the highest dmg melee class out there: crits will regularly go over 100 dmg, sometimes into the 200s. Also, why do people say dervs are an energy black hole for monks? maybe the stupid ones are, but ive never found that dervishes need constant healing when i monk. Take this situation for example: My melandru dervish was in a group with another dervish, 2 mesmers, a ranger, an ele, and a monk. This is in a PuG. We didn't have a single death (except for pets), and the monk didn't complain once (which typically happens even in really balanced groups). So much for being a black hole on healing.

And whats this about sins? theres no similarity between dervs and sins except 70 armor. Contrary to most people's belief, the purpose of the sin is not to frontline: its to ASSASSINATE. Why do u think sins are so popular in PvP? the best role of a sin is to shadow step in, kill the important casters, and then shadow step out. Don't compare dervs to sins: they are almost NOTHING alike.

As for real tanking: the warrior definitely wins in this category. But where do u need to REALLY tank? DoA and maybe UW. I would certainly take my warrior to wither ofthese places. But the fact of the matter is that neither of these places is worth the time (IMO) to actually tank in and clear the place.

Farming: yes, a warrior is probly a better farmer. Whoopdedoo. Invincimonks are better than warriors at farming. Depending on what ur farming, an earth tank ele is better than an invincimonk. Farming doesn't matter. I know no one has brought this up yet, but someone will.

All in all, warriors are good. So are dervishes. If you like to sit behind walls of armor, go for a warrior. If you like to do high dmg and manage enchants go for a dervish. Just don't bash good dervishes because of the noobs who like scythes and hoods.

strcpy · Feb 23, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArKaiN

I'm sorry, but is this really what happens?
In my experience, unless you have like 12 mysticism(even then, actually. it`s not like 4 energy's a lot), and mystic vigor and/or regeneration gets stripped in the middle of a big battle, I either have no energy to recast it (because I mistakingly spent it spamming attacks) or I just die from my low armor combined with no regen. People keep harping about how we have 4 pips of regen and mystic regeneration, but lets face it, thing aren't always ideal, and when they aren't, warriors are still sitting behind that huge armor. Derishes CAN be built around being a good tank, but given the same player skill, I do belive warriors are better suited for this purpouse. It's a trade really, we get worse tankability but we get high damage+aoe.

I'll put it this way - I have beaten all three games, cleared Sorrows Furnace and Tombs of the Primevel Kings with a group of hench/heroes as the primary tank. Much easier time than with my warrior.

Let me tell you the problem: "because I mistakingly spent it spamming attacks" - Bingo! You can not simply spam skills with a Dervish and expect to live - just watch what enchant is going off and use skills accordingly. Quit spamming a few seconds before mystic regen goes off and you will do fine in most areas. If you are in enchant stripping heavy areas the order they go on matters or you can cast a cheap crappy one to get them to trigger their enchant strip then put on the good one (see cover enchants and how people solo farm the UW - that build is even harder with enchant strippers and they get by - use the same tactics).

A warrior isn't a better tank - a warrior is an *easier* tank.

Age · Feb 23, 2007, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dross

I've found that dervishes are very good at staying alive, if u know how to play them. And dervishes are the highest dmg melee class out there: crits will regularly go over 100 dmg, sometimes into the 200s. Also, why do people say dervs are an energy black hole for monks? maybe the stupid ones are, but ive never found that dervishes need constant healing when i monk. Take this situation for example: My melandru dervish was in a group with another dervish, 2 mesmers, a ranger, an ele, and a monk. This is in a PuG. We didn't have a single death (except for pets), and the monk didn't complain once (which typically happens even in really balanced groups). So much for being a black hole on healing.

And whats this about sins? theres no similarity between dervs and sins except 70 armor. Contrary to most people's belief, the purpose of the sin is not to frontline: its to ASSASSINATE. Why do u think sins are so popular in PvP? the best role of a sin is to shadow step in, kill the important casters, and then shadow step out. Don't compare dervs to sins: they are almost NOTHING alike.

As for real tanking: the warrior definitely wins in this category. But where do u need to REALLY tank? DoA and maybe UW. I would certainly take my warrior to wither ofthese places. But the fact of the matter is that neither of these places is worth the time (IMO) to actually tank in and clear the place.

Farming: yes, a warrior is probly a better farmer. Whoopdedoo. Invincimonks are better than warriors at farming. Depending on what ur farming, an earth tank ele is better than an invincimonk. Farming doesn't matter. I know no one has brought this up yet, but someone will.

All in all, warriors are good. So are dervishes. If you like to sit behind walls of armor, go for a warrior. If you like to do high dmg and manage enchants go for a dervish. Just don't bash good dervishes because of the noobs who like scythes and hoods.

That maybe so but Dervs. can't still out put out as Much dmge as a adrenal warrior can as they don't require energy.I am talking about a good spiker or pressure build here.

strcpy · Feb 24, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

That maybe so but Dervs. can't still out put out as Much dmge as a adrenal warrior can as they don't require energy.I am talking about a good spiker or pressure build here.

And an adrenal warrior can not even come close to matching a Dervish's damage with adjacent enemies - the dervish doesn't need energy *or* adrenaline to spread the love. Of course, that may very well be because an adrenal warrior is supposed to spike and a dervish is supposed to spread damage/conditions so I'm not really sure what that point is supposed to mean. They also do not heal, nuke, raise minions, hex, or a ton of other things other classes do well.

I had thought that by now most understood that playing a dervish like a warrior isn't going to work (just as playing a warrior like a dervish isn't going to work).