Curse

Progor · Nov 28, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

The true power of a Dervish lies in its versatility.

No other class in the game boasts all of these in one package:

incredible damage
- the scythe is the highest damage weapon in the game AND AoE on every swing
- Heart of Fury is one of the best IAS's in the game, outclassed only by flail and frenzy when you can work around their drawbacks
incredible defense
- Armor of Sanctity is one of only 3 damage absorption skills in the game, and combines perfectly with veil of thorns to meet it's condition
- Conviction is one of the few defensive stances that can be kept up permanently
- Mystic Regeneration has replaced Troll Unguent as one of the premier self-heals in the game
- Mystic Vigor - W/Mo's have to invest 10 points in Healing Prayers and take 2 enchantments to match it's health per swing, and can't touch it if you hit multiple foes
- multiple attacks that have a side effect of healing you
- Vow of Silence is the only spell shield in the game that can be kept up constantly on its own
- Mirage Cloak - if your build can afford it, a constant 50% evade is a boon
- Windwalker's Armor - all defensive dervishes should have enough enchantments to keep this at it's 15 bonus armor rating.
- 4 pips of energy regen make all these defenses much easier to sustain
incredible utility
- dargon already covered it's condition spreading power.
- Mystic Healing is the best party heal in the game
- Pious Restoration provides the only self hex removal on a melee class
- Multiple enchantment removal skills
- Everything you need for running (Dervishes can even make the Droks run)
And they just look darn cool

Of course, you can't get all that functionality in one build, but the power of the Dervish lies in the fact that you can mix-n-match. If you want to fully capitalize on that high damage scythe, take relatively few enchantments, max out your Scythe Mastery, and take several attacks with you. You will be a lot like an assassin, but with a more constant damage output that doesn't rely on criticals and double hits to keep it's DPS up.

On the other hand, you can load up on the enchantments, cover them all with a Vow of Silence to stop most of the enchantment removal skills out there, and stand on the front lines and tank with the Dolyak Signet warriors (without the huge mobility hit). You might not have the points for more than 9 or so points for Scythe Mastery, but you'll be practically invulnerable.

But more than likely, you'll want to combine these two extremes take a few skills from the defensive side and a few from the offensive side and make a character that is about as tough as a warrior, but has better damage potential, especially when the targets line up. Then throw in a skill or two from your utility toolbox to help out your team, and you have one of the best all-around characters in the game.

ACreator · Nov 28, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

comparing a devish to an assassin is completly idiotic!!

dervishes are as good as any profession. They got weakenesses and they have also strong points.

as for those who say that assassins are weak they should met they good but also rare ones.

A good assassin can pwn a monk or any class before they knew what happened.´

Like in everything, there are good players and bad players and everything floats arround that.

In profecies, ppl used to say that mesmers suked and were totaly uselless...

then some ppl found out that 1 mesmer took hole teams of 4 alone!

and they weren't spellcasters.

the mesmer was great? no. just as good as any class well played... the other monks, necros and warriors suked..

Str0b0 · Nov 28, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

I don't get the whole AL argument against dervishes. How many armor buffs and self heals do they have? The Interventions alone make their armor a non issue, stack that with Balthazar or any number of earth prayers and their armor is no longer a sticking point. Their damage is not only incredibly consistent, considering the wide range it covers, but there are also ungodly damage buffs that only require you to have enchantments on you to get the bonus or sometimes none at all. Almost every scythe attack comes with nasty bonus damage. With the right armor mods you can boost dervish armor to insane degrees, I know there is one that gives you up to +45 armor for having three enchantments on you. I maintain three enchantments on my dervish pretty much constantly. So if you want to get technical my build, properly played, walks around with 115 AL and if I decide to toss Balth form in there I'm walking around with 195 AL. How is that not a viable tank even with the long cool down of the Balth form? Dervishes are incredibly viable as tanks, even in the later missions, and with the proper skills they also are more self sufficient than any WAMMO, without tapping into their secondary at that.

The dervish is also more effective at crowd control than any warrior will ever be. Yes I'm aware of cyclone axe and hundred blades, but a dervish's normal attacks will hit multiple enemies. That factor alone makes them invaluable. They can hold aggro and help do mass damage rather than focusing primarily on a single target and only occassionally hitting the other mobs. I just have to disagree with the assessment of many that the dervish is more or less useless PvE

Arkantos · Nov 28, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

^

The insigna gives +5 armor per enchantment (Maximum 15 armor) and AoB adds 40 armor, not 80.

Str0b0 · Nov 28, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

thanks for the corrections. I'm a little addled right now. LoL. Still the fact remains that AL is not really a viable reason to discount dervishes.

Etrik · Nov 28, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

It's simple.. people don't know what they're talking about. They made a dervish, put only offensive skills on him, then thought 'why am I dieing????????? I'm Rambo!!!!!!!'. Same as sins when they first came out.

Heroway the game till people chill and realize the potential of dervishes. We're imba

Quick note: Tank using Dervish-only skills = Conviction + AoB + Armor of Sanctity + Veil of Thorns + Mirage Cloak + Mystic Regen + Staggering Force + Twin Moon Sweep = 134 Armor, 50% Evade, 21 damage mitigation, 16 HP Regen, Constant Weakness on Foes.

Beat that, warriors. And don't get me started on godly Dwayna tanks. Seriously.

Nanood · Nov 28, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

I'm usually the last or second last standing if things go bad. And its not because i've run away

Vex · Nov 28, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

I have a level 20 Dervish and I tank better then most. I am using a build that I saw on here because I am still pretty new to getting into the statistics of each skill and what they can do.

Now Im pretty sure, out of what I just wrote, The only thing that sunk into peoples brains is the phrase "I am still pretty new". So how can I know what a good tank is. Well I have partyed with many people and seen many tanks that do an awesome job even in FoW. Well I can go into FoW and pretty much go in and take on herds of crap with a good monk to keep some healing spells on me.

Either way I have herd with the right build a 3 man dervish team can solo FoW so they cant be all that bad.

immolatus · Nov 28, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifix

i really wish people would start to read. The reason i hate dervs is because the entire class is based solely on enchants. its too conditional for my liking and i like to have a bit of a backup for a class instead of just having one lifeline. what happens when a dervs enchants fall? they die.

what happens when a monks enchants fall? they die.

samurai snack · Nov 28, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Armour of Earth @ 40 AL + Conviction + (+10 AL while enchanted) insignias + 70AL = 144 AL and 6 skill slots left that can tank better than most warriors ive seen and still have energy for damage dealing

drupal · Nov 28, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

I always get a group but I can also understand people that they don't want a 5-man dervish and monk team

The comparison dervish to sins is stupid. I learned to love my dervish ^^

geekling · Nov 28, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vex

so they cant be all that bad.

Of course not, no class is all bad.

Unfortunably the Dervish does not have 'built in' high armour but require the player to bring skills to boost their armour. There are way too many players out there that won't 'waste slots on stupid defensive skills.' Right now, they all seem seduced by the shiney new class the Dervish. (and if it really needs to be said. No this does not imply that this mindset applies to all, or even a majority of Dervish players out there. Just enough of them to be noticable.)

No doupt with time this will change with time. Well I can hope.

BigDave · Nov 29, 2006, 02:01 AM // 02:01

When i set up my dervish for PvE she is damn near impossible to kill. Monks hardly ever need to heal me and i can dish out some serious damage.

Trouble is with so many dervishes running about there's no room for them in a party, so i went to Tyria where there aren't many dervishes and had very little trouble getting into a group.

I can run from LA to Sanctum with absolute ease and certainty, and my health won't drop below 80% for the entire trip (with the exception of one part where it can go down as far as 50%, oh-no!). And i can do it very, very quickly.

I can solo run to the seer in the Iron Mines mission faster and easier than anything else i've seen. Even all the KD, armour ignoring damage from the Azure Shadows is a breeze.

I even got my protector of tyria title without dying even once (and very quickly too). Tanking the titans was a doddle.

Yeah, dervishes are weak............

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Nov 29, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

WOW big dave, you handed tyria it's A** on a silver platter didn't you? GG man GG.

Riotgear · Nov 29, 2006, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I never thought people would attempt to compare dervish to assassin.

Medium-armored high-offense melee class. Of course they're comparing them. My first prediction of Nightfall was that "Dervish would be the new Assassin."

In terms of player quality, I was correct. Unfortunately, the terrific synergy of the class's abilities and the simple fact that Signet of Pious Light is hands-down the best self-heal in the game (aside from perhaps divine booned reversal of fortune) has preventing player crappiness from manifesting the way it did with assassins. :P

strcpy · Nov 29, 2006, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifix

i really wish people would start to read. The reason i hate dervs is because the entire class is based solely on enchants. its too conditional for my liking and i like to have a bit of a backup for a class instead of just having one lifeline. what happens when a dervs enchants fall? they die.

I got the jist of what you said, and even with your "clarifiaction" I find it totally off base. For one, you explicitly stated that in the Terment area they are more a liability than anything - of which many of us find to be totally untrue.

Since most of the enchants cost 5e and have a quick recharge it isn't that hard to put them back up, too many enchant removals have too long of a recharge to shut one down for long. Of all the classes I've played it has been one of the most survivable when enchants start getting ripped, it is A LOT better than a stance warrior or ranger hitting a few mobs with a wild attack - all gone in one go and usually a long recharge.

Really, the PvE hate to the dervish tend to be anti-caster: backfire, diversion, etc (interrupts aren't that a big of a deal as you have most enchants at 3/4 second or faster). Even worse is that because they are a melee caster a general purpose mesmer totally shuts one down. Now, stripping enchants *really* hurts when added with the above, but just the stripping by itself is usually just ignored. But then, pretty much any class out there dies almost instantly under those conditions - I do not see them being any worse.

Again, the hench Dervish doesn't seem to suffer the problems you describe. As such I would probably go back and look over your build or tactics. The hench shouldn't ever do that (well, except with their instant interrupts).

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Nov 29, 2006, 07:40 AM // 07:40

I assume your having trouble finding groups in PvE. Only answer, f**k humans, Use henchies/Heros, GG Problem Solved. . . . .

I find that humans bring only grief and agitation to PvE. Thus I pledged to never group with humans again unless I know them or Guild with them.

Heros/Henchies arent stereotype agaisnt your profession, they follow orders, they are arranged like you want them, and they are always there.

Learn to use your Heros and Henchies, and PvE will no longer plague you when you are denied party invitations.

As for PvP, your group should already know what you do and what your purpose is.

Hidden Prayers · Nov 29, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

As much as I love the Dervish, I honestly wouldn't want more than two in a party, although this pretty much goes for every class in most situations.

And generally, when I can't find a party I make one

.

ogami_ito · Nov 29, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hidden Prayers

As much as I love the Dervish, I honestly wouldn't want more than two in a party, although this pretty much goes for every class in most situations.

And generally, when I can't find a party I make one

.

I once did a Shiverpeak uhh...whats it called? That area with the friggin dwarves sort of elite place... with a PUG party of 6 dumb warriors and 2 henchy priests because all the other teams were looking for something called B/P ranger farmers. Anyway...we kicked butt. (I was there to cap Eviscerate ... don't like farming that much )

Now... Dervs have enchants. There are two extreamly efficient monk spells for healing enchanted allies - Dwana's kiss and Healing Light. Add in some protection like Aegis and RoF...not so much for its affect but because it they are cheap enchants and group-effect enchant. Mo/Me, with 5 points in inspiration and one interupt skill is better.

Add a MM Necro with that blood skill...also forgot what its called (short term memory problems because I smoke out too much I guess). That area-effect enchant that adds +12 damage to attacks for 5 seconds and the necro sacrifices 17% health.

Now add 1 Paragon with Anthem of Flame, and Zealous Anthem, and anything else.

Now add in FOUR Dervs, each with an avatar, with Mystic Regen, Vital Boom, and either that healing signet, or that wind prayer spell that heals and strips a hex. At least two of these Dervs are actually D/P, with just 5 points in Command, and the skill "Go for The Eyes".

Now proceed to destroy the internet!

Skuld · Nov 29, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

IWAY noob!