Curse

~ Dan ~ · Feb 02, 2008, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by ectos taste nasty

Just used that,got 10 wins in RA. First try :P

GG

ur pro, RA is hard i can't do it

LightningHell · Feb 02, 2008, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

I think it's pretty obvious that this skill has spike potential, but you'll need some way to account for the estrip on demand. In terms of a spammable deep wound I think it's plainly inferior to Mel+Wearying.

I'll agree on that on Dervishes there is no reason why you wouldn't run Mel+Wearying instead.

The Enchant strip only applies if you have an enchantment on you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Again, you need some way to deal with the strip on demand. You do not, for instance, want to self-strip Prot Spirit when you're spiking.

I'll take a PvP standpoint first. If you're taking any significant damage you shouldn't be trying to hit stuff (unless you're making a last ditch effort); but all said, Dervishes are still better off with because stripping your IAS in the middle of your spike isn't exactly the best thing to do (granted, all Derv spike skills have 3/4 activation time, so that doesn't count that much). However, on the Warrior the larger problem would be the energy cost, as if you actually have an Enchantment by monks on you you probably aren't in a situation you should be hitting anything (Aegis, etc aside). (For sake of simplicity, I won't assume you have a smiter or something. Obviously it's counterproductive to strip Balthazar's Aura - well, actually, maybe not if you kill the target, but whatever.)

In PvE I wholly agree. Prot Spirit > DW.

Quote:

And here's the thing about Deep Wound: you can't actually die from it. That means that in order for DW to be effective, some kind of damage has to be applied afterwards to drop the target (hence axe warriors with Evisc -> Crit/Agonizing). So, it's the draw speed of the second hit that's really critical from a spiking standpoint; it's nice if the first hit is fast too, but that's not where the speed is really making a difference.

It's the total draw speed of all the spike chain skills discluding the first skill, with the DW not being the last skill. I would guess Exec/Evis/Followup would still be pretty powerful, although you would miss out the DW if they blinded you on time, making support spiking less likely to kill the target even if you fail to do the whole spike.

You hardly need to spike in PvE. Focused damage from the whole party on a single unit for a few seconds is enough as a 'spike' in PvE.

Quote:

I don't see why you'd run this on a warrior except for the novelty; the bars above don't have any advantages over standard axe warrior setups.

You would run it on a non-Axe Warrior. 10e is a pain, though, as energy is needed to frenzy.

Sirius-NZ · Feb 02, 2008, 12:15 PM // 12:15

RA comes down to whether you have a good monk. If you've got that, and the other players are at least reasonably proficient, you're likely to win 10 in a row anyway.

If you don't have a monk, or a rather bad one, you're going to lose, and there's nothing you can do about it. While you can judge whether your build is working, it's doesn't mean too much by itself...

Coloneh · Feb 02, 2008, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

If you don't have a monk, or a rather bad one, you're going to lose, and there's nothing you can do about it. While you can judge whether your build is working, it's doesn't mean too much by itself...

not really...
N/Rts work better in RA, they put out some damage. and you dont need one if everyone has a selfheal.

Bowstring Badass · Feb 02, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

You would run it on a non-Axe Warrior. 10e is a pain, though, as energy is needed to frenzy.

Everybody knows zealous on warrior ftw.

But then again Eviscerate is also ftw.

ectos taste nasty · Feb 02, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

ur pro, RA is hard i can't do it

lol, I knew this was going to come up.

I was just saying,the build worked,and I liked it. Not that im ubar l337. I hav r1 skeelz btw so dun mess wid me!11

moriz · Feb 03, 2008, 12:17 AM // 00:17

it's pretty nice on a hammer warrior, though only marginally better than crushing blow.

it does allow a hammer warrior to deliver a deepwound without preceeding it with a KD, as well as allowing them to run longer combos because of the damage compression.

Sirius-NZ · Feb 03, 2008, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

not really...
N/Rts work better in RA, they put out some damage. and you dont need one if everyone has a selfheal.

Oh, of course, I should have said a healer of some sort - Ritualists do the job as well.

The problem with self-heals is that many people don't take them. My usual (Dervish) build has Imbue Health, which lets me bail other people out occasionally if needed, but I can't really do much for myself. Watchful (I think, the targettable one anyway) Intervention would work on both counts though.

Destromath · Feb 04, 2008, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

Oh, of course, I should have said a healer of some sort - Ritualists do the job as well.

The problem with self-heals is that many people don't take them. My usual (Dervish) build has Imbue Health, which lets me bail other people out occasionally if needed, but I can't really do much for myself. Watchful (I think, the targettable one anyway) Intervention would work on both counts though.

Yep, [skill=text]Watchful Intervention[/skill] is the one you're thinking of. I always make sure to have it on my RA builds just because of how unreliable it is to get a decent monk XD. It's not very good if you're just using it to protect yourself, but it's awesome when you prot your whole team with it. Even if your team gets a good monk, it helps out as spike/shutdown prevention for whenever he/she messes up.

Kyp Jade · Feb 04, 2008, 12:21 AM // 00:21

a lot of the dervish enchantments are clumsy to use
requiring the enchantment to end to get the effect you want

skills such as pious assault and pious haste and pious fury are enablers for those effects, will be awhile till you see anyone use it this way however, because emanage on a dervish sucks hard, theres no adrenal skills like a warrior has

edit--
wasnt thinking of pve, but
using attackers insight, eternal aura -> 1 attack -> pious assault is really mean in pve
Pious fury is also good for ending eternal aura fast too

Ensign · Feb 04, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

You don't use an IAS with Pious Assault, you just use one normal speed attack then karate chop the rest.

I wouldn't touch it in PvE, as Aura of Holy Might is just way too good to risk stripping.

~ Dan ~ · Feb 04, 2008, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

because emanage on a dervish sucks hard, theres no adrenal skills like a warrior has

Are you running 3+1 mysticism?

Kyp Jade · Feb 04, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Relying on enchantments as emanage isnt really the way to go. If you look at any of the dervishes ran in pvp they DONT rely on enchantments to fuel their energy. I dont recall any melandru dervish running enchantments for emanage

In pve however, what I have been doing with pious assault recently is just about as retarded and broken as ursan is, but somewhat more fun.

I did this last night after posting that thread about getting useful effects from ending enchantments. The energy cost of fueling combo's like this are generally prohibitive, but in this case attackers insight takes care of that.

(I used to be a mtg limited player, and often times when making a pick between 1 card or another, I take the drawback, and ask myself, will this hurt me, is the cost worth it, or can i USE the drawback)

Anyways

Chilling Victory
Pious Assualt
Pious Fury
Eternal Aura
Attackers Insight
Random Skill of your Choice
Random Avatar of your choice (I choose Balthazar because I like holy damage, and I like speed boost, any will work however)
Res sig (in pve this means sunspear sig)

Im on campus so I cant look at attributes atm,
but its something like
5 Wind (next 2 attacks, 10 energy less on attackers)
12 or 13 mysticism
14 or 15 scythe

I cannot recall for certain, I was using a major over a minor rune that much I can recall.

Really basic

Attackers Insight makes your two attacks free (you dont need it every time, but its pretty amazing)

Put up attackers, Chilling, pious
Eternal Aura, use fury to frenzy in thier face

Alternativly, you can put up eternal aura, then pious, and use ur combo, it doesnt matter because it will end anyway

Pious fury is a fun skill because u can use it to end Eternal Aura on demand, and also to frenzy in someones face while you wait a couple seconds for something to recharge

~ Dan ~ · Feb 04, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Relying on enchantments as emanage isnt really the way to go. If you look at any of the dervishes ran in pvp they DONT rely on enchantments to fuel their energy. I dont recall any melandru dervish running enchantments for emanage

Heart of Fury. Nobody picks an enchantment that ends quickly thinking "e-management ftw", but the energy returned at the end helps (and well, makes 5e enchants free). Take a zealous scythe, and if you are still struggling with your energy.. you are bad.

snoopypup248 · Feb 04, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

I would always combine it with Pious Renewal.
Well...
I would always combine those "Lose one enchantment" skills with Pious Renewal.

Kyp Jade · Feb 04, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

I did not say I was struggling with energy, and zealous scythes are bad.

what i said was that the energy cost for fueling such combos is prohibitive.

~ Dan ~ · Feb 04, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

and zealous scythes are bad.

No they're not.

Coloneh · Feb 05, 2008, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Relying on enchantments as emanage isnt really the way to go. If you look at any of the dervishes ran in pvp they DONT rely on enchantments to fuel their energy. I dont recall any melandru dervish running enchantments for emanage

orly?
[skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill]
waht kind of monk runs without rof?

answer: a bad one

Sirius-NZ · Feb 05, 2008, 01:08 AM // 01:08

I was running RoF on my monk in PvP yesterday, and I was still bad.

I just got a build from people who know what they're talking about. *cough* But I digress...

Zealous scythes are an excellent way to make Melandru dervs actually work. The other snathes provide some nice boosts to damage or condition durations, but on a (modestly) area-effect weapon, energy return can be quite helpful.

(It's also quite amusing to spike two targets at once with one of those in PvP - gives monks nightmares. You can't always do it, but sometimes people line up for you...!)

Bowstring Badass · Feb 05, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Stay on topic so this is not locked. tyvm