Curse

Selket · Feb 04, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Seriously, avatar of balthazar is pretty good. You don't have to believe me, but I speak truth.

iridescentfyre · Feb 04, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrotic

But the OP failed to mention that AoB is capped in Kourna....while Conviction and Pious Haste are not buyable until the Mouth and Gate of Torment, respectively.

Perhaps a good point for those of us purely concerned about a player's first time through normal mode PvE… but aren't Avatar of Melandru, Avatar of Lyssa, Vow of Strength, and Reaper's Sweep all capped in Kourna as well? I realize they aren't direct replacements for the AoB buffs, but they're all more beneficial anyway.

Ragnar Blackmanes · Feb 04, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

and if a Dervish wanna tank or in other means do the melee, in HardMode cooperative mission, vanquish some area or something like this withouth explode in something like 10 sec?

moriz · Feb 04, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

get better monks, or run ursan.

Ragnar Blackmanes · Feb 04, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

go ursan is the most boring thing you can do in Gw, imho

Monk can be good as you want but a 70 or 94 (cause you will say convinction) armor in Hm for a tank its not soo high.

~ Dan ~ · Feb 04, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Apparently HM can be done without a tank.

Stormlord Alex · Feb 04, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Apparently HM can be done without a tank.

Heresy!
It's a proven fact you can't go anywhere in HM without an obsiflesh tank and bonder. This video (honestly not a rickroll!) is proof of that.

lolol

Seriously, you don't need AoB to survive HM. You need a team that isn't total fail.

blurmedia · Feb 04, 2008, 07:06 PM // 19:06

haha I knew it was that kitten

iridescentfyre · Feb 04, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar Blackmanes

and if a Dervish wanna tank or in other means do the melee, in HardMode cooperative mission, vanquish some area or something like this withouth explode in something like 10 sec?

As was said, that's what monks are for. If you truly want self-defense on your own bar, there's better ways to get it than wasting your elite slot for +40 armor.

Ragnar Blackmanes · Feb 04, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Heresy!
It's a proven fact you can't go anywhere in HM without an obsiflesh tank and bonder. This video (honestly not a rickroll!) is proof of that.

lolol

Seriously, you don't need AoB to survive HM. You need a team that isn't total fail.

lol the kitten,
anyway i don't say that the only way to survive in Hm with a Dervish is to use AoB, but i think that a Derv that go in the melee fight withouth a good armor rating would be the most principal target of monks, and probably it will be kicked from the party (sadly i see that it happens often).

Im not saing that AoB is the most powerful derv elite skill, it have advantage and disvantage, for example, with Lyssa you deal more damage (not often), with Bhatly you have much armor, it's point of view.

Squishy ftw · Feb 04, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar Blackmanes

lol the kitten,
anyway i don't say that the only way to survive in Hm with a Dervish is to use AoB, but i think that a Derv that go in the melee fight withouth a good armor rating would be the most principal target of monks, and probably it will be kicked from the party (sadly i see that it happens often).

That's where your other party members should kick in. Bring passive defence and monks that don't fail.

Ragnar Blackmanes · Feb 04, 2008, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

As was said, that's what monks are for. If you truly want self-defense on your own bar, there's better ways to get it than wasting your elite slot for +40 armor.

with which elite? reaper's sweep? it do +35/40 (depend on attribute) damage, ok it's huge damage,
and i will take something like convinction for +24 (less then the elite AoB) armor right?
but, if i want somehting more?
I can usa AoB to have 40 armor, and use something like Victorious sweep for +29/31 (attribute) damage, something less then the elite reaper's sweep.
That's the same, one with more damage one with more armor

Anyway, if i want a huge armor bonus cause i wanna do the best possible tank build with a Derv, would't i use AoB?

i Dunno if i explain at 100% my think cause im not english and i dont know at all the language. Sorry for that

~ Dan ~ · Feb 04, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar Blackmanes

Anyway, if i want a huge armor bonus cause i wanna do the best possible tank build with a Derv, would't i use AoB?

No, because armour of earth does pretty much the same thing and is non-elite. You fail to see that what you think is an advantage of AoB (the armour), isn't an advantage. The only time you'll want more armour is for tanking. If you are tanking, you are bad at GW. End of story.

Ragnar Blackmanes · Feb 04, 2008, 07:42 PM // 19:42

what is armor of earth? convinction? +24 and +40 its the same? sorry but i don't think so.

Imho in the quesition of the tank, but with my tank i vanquish the most zone of Gw with heroes. It could be your not prefered way to play (the tank i mean, but saing that do the tank its bad i think its not right).
Why im bad?

Darkside · Feb 04, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar Blackmanes

and if a Dervish wanna tank or in other means do the melee, in HardMode cooperative mission, vanquish some area or something like this withouth explode in something like 10 sec?

I've been vanquishing in HM with h/h and when I'm lucky with guildies and I have not once ran AoB in some pathetic attempt at being a tank. If you need extra armor for some reason just run conviction or great dwarf armor that way you don't need to waste your elite slot.

~ Dan ~ · Feb 04, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar Blackmanes

what is armor of earth? convinction? +24 and +40 its the same? sorry but i don't think so.

Oh so i said conviction did i? Read my post, then read this: [skill]Armor of Earth[/skill] As you can see, it's 24 armour with no spec. I'm guessing the breakpoint wouldn't be too high for +40 armour?

Quote:

Imho in the quesition of the tank, but with my tank i vanquish the most zone of Gw with heroes. It could be your not prefered way to play (the tank i mean, but saing that do the tank its bad i think its not right).
Why im bad?

Well done, aren't you a clever boy?

Btw, i H/H'ed canthan vanquisher without a tank. I would've done the other 2 continents had i not quit the game. Many others have vanquished without a tank. I'll just leave you in your own little world, where you think using a tank makes you good at GW.

Ragnar Blackmanes · Feb 04, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Why you need to make offense? im simply try to make a civil discussion.
Anyway, why you tell thing that i never say?
i've said that you WOuld never and ever take vanquisher without a tank?
no i dont say that, and i dont say that im good at Gw, i do what i can.
Other thing, for tank i mean a melee that can do and take damage, less or more of each one.
Armor of earth can be a way but slowly me too much, and i wont be Ele of second profession cause i use some skills by warrior.
And also, how many enchantment removal have the mob?

the question is: if i want the best armor rate with my dervish, cause i wanna do that ( and so im bad at Gw

), i want a sure armor upgrade that cannot be easliy removed by the enemies, and, if we can, a full lenght one, what i should bring?

~ Dan ~ · Feb 04, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

It seems to me you fail to understand what a tank is. A tank does no damage, just soaks up all the damage and aggro so his team can spank the mob.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar Blackmanes

Other thing, for tank i mean a melee that can do and take damage, less or more of each one.

If you are tanking, you are not doing damage. If you are by chance, killing things (and not from wanding or a starter scythe) then you probably aren't much of a tank. Tanks need all of their bar to do their job.

Quote:

Armor of earth can be a way but slowly me too much

Tell me why a tank should be in a hurry to move anywhere?

Quote:

And also, how many enchantment removal have the mob?

Tanks take Obsidian flesh or vow of silence or spell breaker to stop enchant strips.

Quote:

the question is: if i want the best armor rate with my dervish, cause i wanna do that ( and so im bad at Gw

), i want a sure armor upgrade that cannot be easliy removed by the enemies, and, if we can, a full lenght one, what i should bring?

There is no unstrippable armour buff for a Dervish primary that gives more armour than AoB. But thats why you have paras or wars in your team to spam Save Yourselves! Hell, even a dervish can run it fairly well. Get your monk to maintain prot spirit on you, and voila: no-one will die.

The reasons you don't take AoB for that armour buff:

1) Because it's an elite. Yes, AoB is an elite skill. If you think it is worth it to spend your elite slot on +40 armour, you are misunderstanding what an elite skill should actually do for your bar.
2) You can get extra (un-needed) armour on non-elite skills. If you want to moan that it makes you move too slow, or that it's not as much +AL as AoB; then just don't take a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing armour buff. It is not needed in any way.
3) Dervs have such kickass elites, that means spending the slot on +40 armour is not even remotely a good idea.

Ragnar Blackmanes · Feb 04, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

that's the dictionary means of tank,
i've said it, i dont mean tank at all, cause at 99% you dont need that on Gw, in this point i agree with you.
Run in pve can help with the hm monk mob that run away, but i prefer using it to counter the -33% of flail.

about point 1) i've meet this matter in some post ago, you can have an elite that can giv you +40 damage with an attacck and then normal skill that give you +24 armor, or you can take elite that give you +40 armor and normal skill that do +30 damage. that's a choice.
2)With un-needed you mean that a melee can have 70 armor withouth taking huge damage? i dont think that. for the armor matter its and imho-way.
3) your personal opinion.
Anyway i think its a lost cause,
ty for discussion with no flame in this post. see you i need to go

Sir Pandra Pierva · Feb 04, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

AoB pwns in use with
[skill]Frenzy[/skill][skill]Healing Signet[/skill]
I dont take any extra dmg using that combo.
j/k
anway
if you wanna tank on a dervish here is a better one
[skill]Avatar of Dwayna[/skill]