Curse

daze · Aug 28, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister PMA

The Rend Enchantments skill descirp says it only works on MONK enchants, which i dont think a derv would be casting on himself? That skill will do the same amount of damage to everyone.

p.s. If the skill got changed to rend ALL enchants then forget what i just said..

you may want to read the description a second time. Actually it will remove all enchantments but it will only hurt the caster for each monk enchantment removed.

And i was obviously kidding about casting it on yourself because it is a hostile spell regardless how little effective it is on a derv. Hostile spells can not target self or ally

Full: Remove 5...8 enchantments from target foe. For each Monk enchantment removed, you take 55...31 damage.

Concise: Removes 5...8 enchantments from target foe. Removal cost: you take 55...31 damage for each Monk enchantment removed.

Mister PMA · Aug 28, 2008, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

you may want to read the description a second time. Actually it will remove all enchantments but it will only hurt you for each monk enchantment removed.

And i was obviously kidding about casting it on yourself because it is a hostile spell regardless how little effective it is on a derv.

Full: Remove 5...8 enchantments from target foe. For each Monk enchantment removed, you take 55...31 damage.

Concise: Removes 5...8 enchantments from target foe. Removal cost: you take 55...31 damage for each Monk enchantment removed.

Sorry I read the skill wrong, that does seem like it would just help the dervish more than hinder and i know you can't cast it on yourself

daze · Aug 28, 2008, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister PMA

Sorry I read the skill wrong, that does seem like it would just help the dervish more than hinder and i know you can't cast it on yourself

[rend enchantments] along with most enchantment removals do have the possibility to hinder dervs, like for example if it was casted on the derv after [[eternal aura] ends then you will be waiting for the recharge to recast your enchants. But if you time your build correctly there should be very minimal time between enchant blackouts. Also it can be an annoyance if you are in the middle of an attack spam. But its rarely fatal to any player that knows how to press the <S> key.

And i misread the skill at first also until i read the concise version. For a minute there i thought that the damage was dealt to the target for having Monk enchantments removed. :P Instead it is dealt to the caster which is actually more amusing that someone offered that as a spell that can threaten a derv (because i usually carry a prot monk with me) Talk about backfired spell.

ALF71BE · Aug 28, 2008, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Just run survivor on everything except chest, there put a windwalker.

Ignore daze's builds and forget about [mystic regeneration]; it really doesn't deserves a skill slot.

Bring sup vigor + minor runes always. No matter what frontliner you are, you always bring minors.

daze · Aug 28, 2008, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

Ignore daze's builds and forget about [mystic regeneration]; it really doesn't deserves a skill slot.

rather than telling you what to bring, i invite you to try out [mystic regeneration] for yourself and see if you like the pressure it takes off the monks. If you don't like it, then like Alf, its not for you. The only reason i like [[mystic regeneration] is because it has saved my ass on multiple occasions(like when a Mo/E surprises you by bringing [fire storm] instead of focusing on support) it has kept me alive long enough to finish off a couple more enemies before the team wipe.

ALF71BE · Aug 28, 2008, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

rather than telling you what to bring, i invite you to try out [mystic regeneration] for yourself and see if you like the pressure it takes off the monks. If you don't like it, then like Alf, its not for you. The only reason i like [[mystic regeneration] is because it has saved my ass on multiple occasions(like when a Mo/E surprises you by bringing [fire storm] instead of focusing on support) it has kept me alive long enough to finish off a couple more enemies before the team wipe.

Staying in the AoE huh?

So where you say monks bring Firestorm? AB?

Hope you aren't trying to measure a skill usefulness by using it in AB.

daze · Aug 28, 2008, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

Staying in the AoE huh?

So where you say monks bring Firestorm? AB?

Hope you aren't trying to measure a skill usefulness by using it in AB.

lol AB would be still a dumb choice for a monk to bring [fire storm] but it would be less dumb than bringing it to PvE. Unfortunately it was in The realm or torment

a place where you would half expect people to have their builds together. but sure enough i was there hacking away at the enemies when flames start raining from the sky on top of my head, since there was no ele on our team at the time i half i prepared to press the <S> key until i realized that i was taking no damage and the enemies were scattering.
I look on the party list and the only E i saw was one of the 2 monks. I actually did get a chuckle out of it.

Cebe · Aug 28, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Everyone and his grandmother has "tried" Mystic Regeneration. It's good for farming, and sometimes for countering degen in AB, where you don't have a Monk or Support Paragon as backup. Everywhere else it's really not worth the investment in Earth Prayers, when there are the far more superior lines of Scythe Mastery and Mysticism.

This thread is running off course.

In response to the OP, if he's even still reading this: Survivor, all over.

Survivor on starter Dervishes (especially on Istan) allows more scope for making mistakes, and unlike Windwalkers, does not rely on the newbie Dervish having to keep re-applying enchantments. Yes, I know, Dervishes use enchantments...why am I suggesting a newbie wouldn't use them? I'm not, but consider some of the enchantments you receive on Istan (assuming no unlock packs are purchased):

[[Heart of Holy Flame] - Expensive for what it does, and only really useful in Fahranur.
[[Aura of Thorns] & [[Grenth's Fingers] - you only benefit from this enchantment ending.
[[Attacker's Insight] - After it's powered a Chilling Victory, it's down. This enchantment is never up for very long.
[[Zealous Renewal] - Expensive and quite useless, though possibly one of the only enchantments a Dervish might want to keep on while in Istan.
[[Intimidating Aura] & [[Guiding Hands] - No.

So...How many of those enchantments will you want to keep up? One, at most, and even that's pushing it. Others you'd want to use, but you'd also want to strip them with [[Pious Assault] or [[Twin Moon Sweep] for their ending bonus.

Given the small amount of health you begin with, Survivor is far more practical, and useful. There is plenty of degen on Istan (Disease from Skales, Conjure Phantasm from Iboga, Poison from Corsairs etc..) which also benefits from Survivor. More health means the mistakes you make have less of an impact on you, and means Dunkoro might just about be able to save your ass.

On leaving Istan, and at Level 20 with enough decent skills behind you, you might want to look into going more technical by using Forsaken or Windwalkers. I don't think I've noticed anyone here suggest Blessed, however. Blessed only requires you to use one enchantment and it will dish out +10 Armor (as opposed to the +5 from Windwalkers), and is also a good choice once you progress a little.

daze · Aug 28, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

[*][[Aura of Thorns] & [[Grenth's Fingers] - you only benefit from this enchantment ending.

[[aura of thorns] is crippling not a benefit?

Cebe · Aug 28, 2008, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

[[aura of thorns] is crippling not a benefit?

Hmm, not quite what I meant.

Aura of Thorns and Grenth's Fingers do something on application, yes, and something when they end...but in between they do sod all. Well, Grenth's Fingers causes you to deal cold damage but like I said...sod all. So, the only other real benefit they have is removing them to induce their ending effects.

daze · Aug 28, 2008, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Hmm, not quite what I meant.

Aura of Thorns and Grenth's Fingers do something on application, yes, and something when they end...but in between they do sod all. Well, Grenth's Fingers causes you to deal cold damage but like I said...sod all. So, the only other real benefit they have is removing them to induce their ending effects.

Oh I see, i misunderstood.

It seems that the only viable enchantment is [[aura of holy might] or [[heart of fury]? naturally [[eternal aura] if you are using an avatar
I was always fond of [[mystic corruption] and [[armor of sanctity] + [[reap impurities]

i never could figure out [[extend enchantments] though. it seems that that skill makes all enchantments last only 20 seconds

Cebe · Aug 28, 2008, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Extend is ok if you want to use really short enchantments. Clearly, anything over 10 seconds and it's probably not worth using. Enchantments like [[Veil of Thorns] or [[Armor of Sanctity] at a low earth prayers spec for instance. It should also lengthen the duration of enchantments like [[Guardian], [[Aura of Faith] or [[Ancestor's Visage] if cast on you by other players.

All in all, it's not that useful, since Veil+Sanctity is a useless "tank"-style pair of skills, and Protect Monks always did just fine without Extend Enchantments anyway.

daze · Aug 28, 2008, 08:54 AM // 08:54

well i guess i will never fully understand why [[mystic regeneration] is not a useful skill. Maybe its just me. Im a fan of self healing. others like to leave it up to the monks. But i still think that it would allow the monks to focus more of their attention on the rest of the party. Especially when i PUG. i may have trust issues. although i do understand that builds like [avatar of [email protected]][eternal [email protected]][faithful [email protected]][vital [email protected]][watchful [email protected]][mystic [email protected]][balthazars [email protected]][twin moon [email protected]] (and i have seen people rocking these builds) are waay overkill for health and not even good tank builds... Although... Hmm would it be flametrolling if i created a thread saying that was the best derv tank build ever? ;P
To each his own i guess

-Lotus- · Aug 28, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

well i guess i will never fully understand why [[mystic regeneration] is not a useful skill.

Its regeneration... all skills that have regeneration as their only effect are bad. all of them. regen/degen maxes out at 20 HPS/DPS.

let the monks do their job: heal.
you do yours: blow stuf up.

You will help your team out more maximizing your DPS and using decent positioning to minimize the damage you take.

Hugh Manatee · Aug 29, 2008, 05:54 AM // 05:54

For my dervish, when I only had 1 set for general play(especially if I'm using the melandru form, which I do a lot) Radiants on the chest and legs, survivor on the head, hands and feet.(pack a +15-1 insiteful staff too to swap into) I find when I have the +5 energy the chest and legs(or +3 from the head, feet and hands with the survivor's on the chest and legs),I have more leeway in using the offensive enchants too, like I can use feather foot, Heart of Fury and go straight for a wounding strike or bulls or some such.

For Farming the FoW and hydras I take the windwalkers(just like I'd take knights/sentries for farming hulks/raptors, dreadnoughts/sentinal's for hydras, imps ect). You last longer and mitigate damage more if you know exactly what you're fighting.

Ideally you'd have a set of both, so you can armor swap(full set of radiant, survivor, windwalkers ect).

Here's the thing, in PvE, armor or HP doesn't matter much as long as you have decent protection monks. Baring that, +HP will protect you against everything slightly, armor against most things(but not as much as you'd think).

IIRC the +damage from most "attacks" doesn't take into account armor, just the weapon's base damage is affected by armor(the test I heard was to take a starter weapon into the isle of the nameless, wail on the 100 al target and do 0 damage, then with 12 axe or something whack it with excecuters or something and see it do exactly it's listed damage right?)

^I'm pretty sure that's the case, so considering that, every warrior, ranger, assassin, paragon, and dervish will punch right through your armor when they start using their skills, most of which will cause secondary effects like bleeding, poison, deep wound, ect. Many PvE monks are also smiters, and holy damage ignores armor, so PvE derv mobs are a double threat, as are monks. Almost everything necroes and mesmers do goes straight through armor, be it degen, lifesteal, or shadow/chaos damage or straight life loss. Ele's without earth or air magic and some channeling rits(some rits use spirits splinter or nightmare and vengefu weapons) are the main things that +armor will help you stop, but the thing is most of them will spike hard enough to necessitate Monk prots, like Prot spirit or spirit bond, SoA and such(especially bosses).

Now in PvP people know this, so they take stuff that goes through armor(+damage attacks, life steal, conjures, ect), and they try and beat down un-protected targets(or cut through the prots with enchant stripping/rending/shattering), calling unloads that wastes healer energy, eventually you get through the prots and stuff starts dying. This is why more HP is more important then more armor(at least 600-620 with the ability to swap into a "high" weapon set{shield and 1 handed martial weapon of fortitude}set for about 630-650), especially when DP starts getting racked up.

So taking all this into account, go ahead and save yourself some cash, and set your guy up for PvP and + HP runes, you'll still do fine for PvE and be ready to go to the arenas as you get more and more UaX.

For my sets I have it like this:

Headgear:
+1 inherent mysticism +1mysticism
+1 Inherent Scythe Master +1 Mysticism
basically a +1 base for each att always with the mysticism rune, usually a survivor or radiant rune.

Chest:
a set with Survivor, Radiant, and +armor insig, the vigor rune here usually

Legs:
same as above but with the Scythe Rune here, if I'm not using a scythe I use a vitea or attune

hands & feet:
The earth or wind rune goes here, with survivor, radiant or armor insignia. An Attunement or Vitae rune if my build has no wind or earth prayers.

If you don't have the cash, you can go ahead and set up with cheaper runes, like blessed, forsaken, and whatnot while you save up for the good ones if you plan to stick to pve.