Curse

CoonerTheRed · Oct 16, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shu_

and it is on wiki

the perils of playing an old game... it's all been done

Abnormai · Oct 16, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Okay, so half of that didn't work...

I suppose the conclusion is that dervishes are not as versatile [other than their avatar forms] than some other characters can be.

In pve, im stuck with few choices.

Go blind support, but I have enough defense on my teams already.
Go Reapers [i've used this skill way too much] so im sick of it & its 8 sec recharge
Go Wounding [great recharge, nice conditions, but if i do this, im also stuck with which is a better secondary & second 12 attributes for my dervish]
On the offhand that i'm only either facing Wounding or Onslaught, i then have to decide, which would truly better fit my purposes?

Of course, Wounding would be better while im using cons, or a con that gives me IAS, otherwise, is it worth it to put into Myst for HoF? Even with a 20% enchant on my scythe, thats lasting, what? 22-24 seconds out of its 30 second recharge? And i'm sacrificing my 30 health.

So, If i were to give into wounding strike, and I wanted IAS, am i truly stuck with a 1/2 or 3/5 IAS on a 10,30, etc recharge ?

I have trouble grasping the entire "remove enchant" bit, then I have to understand what enchant goes where, first, second, etc, when to remove... it gets too confusing to use a LOT of skills that remove enchants, if my enchants are vital [while being a meelee attacker]

Sure, skills like RADIANT scythe, Victorious sweep are some of my -most favorite- scythe attacks. Why do people use twin moon sweep so much? It really doesnt compare in my eyes.

So the next questions are-

Wounding - Or - Onslaught --- Why or why not
and,
If wounding, what secondary, what skills to utilize, and, about holy might, 22-32% of the base scythe damage really that much?

Lyssa's assault - will i really need it?

I will make onslaught & wounding - will report back with findings....

edit; to the person who suggest ebon dust aura?? -- You suggested using spear and aura of holy might? how would that work

Frozen Bacon · Oct 16, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

You guys are wasting your time. Let's face it: without the elite forms and scythe attacks, your dervish is piece of crap no matter what you do.

You might as well run this:

D/Mo
Restore Life
Renew Life
Resurrection Chant
Unyielding Aura {elite}
Rebirth
Resurrect
Light of Dwayna
Resurrection Signet

Because without any of the elites mentioned, you will probably be spending most of your time reviving your dying team.

Lyynyyrd · Oct 16, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

HOW TO USE A DERVISH WITHOUT FORMS OR SCYTHE ELITES [AKA HOW TO TURN A DERVISH INTO AN ASSASSIN]:

[Eremite's Attack][Mystic Sweep][Attack Skill #3][Flail][Rush][Zealous Vow][Asuran Scan][Aura of Holy Might]

12+1+1 Scythe
12+1 Wind

Winterclaw · Oct 16, 2008, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Let me get this straight, you want to do damage, but you dislike deep wound?

If you want to deal damage like a warrior that means you need DW and that'll only happen if you use one of the derv elites.

-Lotus- · Oct 17, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

you dont seem to understand some of the key skills to dervish play in PvE. ill post my build and explain a few things to you:

12+1+1 scythe
12+1 myst

these are the standard attributes for all good dervish builds in PvE. the only exception is dropping one myst if you want 4 wind prayers for attacker's insight, without using a rune.

Weapons:
zealous, Vamp, and elemental scythe
enchanting, defensive, or fortitude mods.

1. [Wounding strike] - This skill is crazy. period. deep wound covered by bleeding on a 3 second recharge for 5 energy is ridiculous. any questions?

2. [Victorious Sweep] - first reaction when looking at the skill is that it is a weak self heal when you dont need it. forget the heal, look at the bonus damage. +29 is only 9 damage less than Reaper's with half the recharge, and its non-elite.

3. [Club of a Thousand Bears] - This is your optional PvE skill. I like the KD. Asuran Scan is my second choice, followed by "I am the Strongest!"... whatever floats your boat.

4. ["Save Yourselves!"] - If you dont understand how amazing this skill is there is noting i can say that will help you.

5. ["For Great Justice!"] - More SY is good.

6. [Aura of Holy Might] - to be honest, I dont fully understand what this skill actually does. all i know is that it changes damage type to holy and about doubles the damage I do against everything.

7. [Heart of Fury] - IAS is absolutely necessary and 2/3 IAS is alright when that 2/3 is the important part of the fight anyways.

8. [Resurrection Signet] - Having allies is always nice...

If you have someone else running SY you can switch out skills 3-5 for:
3. [Wild Blow] - Auto-crit on a scythe is nice, unblockable it's even better.

4. PvE skill - anything you like, I would probably still go with Club of a thousand bears.

5. [Eternal Aura] - Remember how you didn't like the downtime on HoF? forget about it. This will AoHM and HoF up as long as it matters.

hope that helps

CoonerTheRed · Oct 17, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnormai

I suppose the conclusion is that dervishes are not as versatile [other than their avatar forms] than some other characters can be.

Ok, dervishes aren't as versatile as necros, in that they can't play the role of four different professions as well or better than the original profession. However, I've used my dervish effectively as:

1. mass damage/ aoe pressure (traditional dervish role)
2. spike damage
3. defensive support (ebon dust)
4. offensive support (orders)
5. 600 in a 600/smite team
6. 130 farmer

I would actually argue that dervishes are more versatile than sins, rits, paragons, monks, and warriors, in the sense of running other professions and styles of play. They are slightly less versatile than many in the sense that they have fewer usable elites and have one line of skills that is rather limited and hard to justify using in PvE, and one line of skills that, with a few notable exceptions, is downright useless.

Quote:

In pve, im stuck with few choices.

you are stuck with few choices because you've put so many limitations on what you want. If you want variety, try the avatars, or try changing your heros so as to let you play support, or try sub-optimal builds because they're fun. (Note, most of PvE can be done handily with sub-optimal builds... that allows for more experimentation than most games, which I personally find fun.) Also, I really don't understand why you need a single build... change up your build, play with different things.

Quote:

Of course, Wounding would be better while im using cons, or a con that gives me IAS, otherwise, is it worth it to put into Myst for HoF? Even with a 20% enchant on my scythe, thats lasting, what? 22-24 seconds out of its 30 second recharge? And i'm sacrificing my 30 health.

Should be 21 out of 30 seconds. At 33% faster. With no downside. It's a very powerful IAS... compare it to frenzy (double damage) or flail (hope your opponent doesn't kite)... it's really pretty great. Like mentioned before, if you ran an avatar, you'd have Eternal Aura, which would mean it would be up nonstop. There are other IASs (Drunken Master is a good one), but HoF is pretty great.

Oh, and weapon swapping is your friend.

Darkside · Oct 18, 2008, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnormai

Welcome, to my personal thread for my Dervish & her build search

I tried something like this on guru before, but failed horribly. I suppose I did not give enough information as to what I wanted, this is quite long, so to entice you guys, there will be prizes.

Read on to find out more.

About me & what I’m looking for;

I’ve played guild wars for approximately a year straight; have played all characters from monk to tank & nuke, but have only found Monk & Assassin to be the most viable.

Cut down to 3-4 characters, and trying to deck out my dervish. But before I deck out any character, I make 3-4 builds that I will LOVE to play. Dervishes? Aren’t really my thing. Let alone dervish builds. Sure, I’ve seen all the normal builds people always use. But have yet to see something unique & viable. Me? I PVP some, but I am NOT looking for PVP builds, I have made those for my dervish. I am strictly looking for PVE builds.

What I don’t like;

• Forms(Avatars) I like to look at my character when I play.

• The two elite scythe attacks[wounding strike, reapers sweep] (Unless used in a way I might have never seen before)
• Leveling up multiple titles to use a build
I love PvE only skills if they are useful, and most of the time greatly powered, but leveling hard titles or (multiple titles) will get annoying. Please (obviously) limit your PVE only skill use per build to 3 (since its all you can put in), and please, do NOT have me get a title over r6 (r4 kurzick/luxon) to be USEABLE. Also, please do not have me have to max more than one or two titles over r6 to be useable.
• Things I’ve seen before. Don’t give me PVX builds, or common builds. I want unique, builds that make me think. I am not asking for a super build that impossible to create, or some secret hidden build, I want a build not many people have thought of using, or thought of it being useful.
• Using the dervish as a tank and/or pure self healer. These are the only builds I’ve been able to see. I have made derv healers, but not affective PVE derv healers.

You may;

• Use PVE Skills [Read above]
• Design the build to be around any secondary character
• Use any type of weapon
• Have it be anything [interrupter,damage,condition spam] Please no TANKS.

Requirements;

• Follow what has been said above
• Energy management/and or adrenal management for your build
• Unique builds are appreciated & desirable, things I never would have thought of, but please don’t make me a 55 PVE derv.

I would much rather prefer a build that only a dervish could make viable, or a build that favors dervish, else I could make a PVE build that could go on any character based around summoning and stuff. Please make a dervish build, so when i play my dervish, im really playing a dervish.

Need to know more to make me my perfect build? Read below.

To make a build I’d like, you probably need to know what I usually do in the game.
Firstly, I have all three campaigns. Secondly, I don’t PUG & only go with heroes + my friends and + their heroes

We usually hm/nm uw/fow/dungeons including orr, ooze, and slavers.

My derv will also normally have judges insight on itself; no earth/cold/etc changes in weapon PLEASE.

We usually bring;
Two damage dealers [us]
N/mo Supportive BLOOD
Me/N Interr/Blood
N/mo Supportive BLIND CURSES [not physical support curse]
N/RT & Mo/me and/or RT/mo Hero healers
Optional; Smiters for hard hitting areas that are susceptible to HOLY damage.

First prize is 20,000g (20k) in game gold.
Second prize is 5,000 (5k) in game gold.
These go to the people who have made the best builds.

Time allotted; til I find my build(s) & test them.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. ; Angie

I will search forever if i have to, but i am CONFIDENT that there is a dervish build out there for me.

This is pretty stupid...you wanna ignore all the good elite skills because you don't like avatars and Wounding Strike and Reapers are...well I dunno what you think they are but lets add them to that list anyway. You're left with a bunch of crap elites and will at best get a mediocre build out of this. I think you should probably just avoid playing a Dervish. Get back on you're sin or monk since they are the most "viable" class.

Bowstring Badass · Oct 18, 2008, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by abnormai

My derv will also normally have judges insight on itself; no earth/cold/etc changes in weapon PLEASE.

Last time I checked you could use any snathe because it would just convert your damage...

And with no forms and scythe attack elites you just limited yourself to 1 useful elite. EDA and even that is horrible in pve.

Freke · Oct 19, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Forms and scythe attacks aren't that great, in my opinion.

13 Scythe Mastery
13 Wind Prayers
7 Mysticism

Asuran Scan
Radiant Scythe
Lyssa's Assault
Chilling Victory
Victorious Assault
[A skill that fits your needs] I use Ebon Vangaurd Assassin Support
Zealous Vow
"I Am The Strongest!"

That build is great, constant 100+ damage.
Don't need to worry about energy.

Pay to the order of Arcturus Kalevala.

Shu_ · Oct 21, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freke

Forms and scythe attacks aren't that great, in my opinion.

13 Scythe Mastery
13 Wind Prayers
7 Mysticism

Asuran Scan
Radiant Scythe
Lyssa's Assault
Chilling Victory
Victorious Assault
[A skill that fits your needs] I use Ebon Vangaurd Assassin Support
Zealous Vow
"I Am The Strongest!"

That build is great, constant 100+ damage.
Don't need to worry about energy.

Pay to the order of Arcturus Kalevala.

dont you mean victorious sweep

?

-Lotus- · Oct 21, 2008, 03:36 AM // 03:36

@ Freke: that build would work just the same without zealous vow. stopping to cast is just going to slow you down.

Freke · Oct 22, 2008, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Nay, it would not. You can't spam the attack skills without zealous vow.

Lyssa's Assault requires an enchantment.
Stopping to cast a 1/4th second spell every 24 seconds is far less than most other derv's.
Yes I mean victorious sweep.

Dmitri3 · Oct 22, 2008, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Freke made me look at Zealous Vow, just noting.

Dervish/Whatever
(OgGjoupMrRQXcfffIYhbyg3l1XA)
Level: 20

Mysticism: 7 (6+1)
Scythe Mastery: 14 (12+2+?) This is PvE after all
Wind Prayers: 12 (11+1)

- Victorious Sweep (Scythe Mastery) - replaceable
- Radiant Scythe (Scythe Mastery)
- Farmer's Scythe (Scythe Mastery) - replaceable if you absolutely can't stand 1 button spam
- Whirling Charge (Wind Prayers) - 25% perma run and attack equals more fun
- Zealous Vow [Elite] (Wind Prayers)
- Aura of Holy Might (Dervish Other) - replaceable, but not recommended
- Dwarven Stability ( ) - get drunk if KD is annoying you, then KILL THEM!
- Natural Healing (Wind Prayers) - replaceable, but only if you're playing with me when I'm on my rit :P. And especially NOT in PUGs, bleh.

Alternatives:

- Only 2 PvE skills means you can take Signet of Capture or Light of Deldrimor.
- Whirlwind Attack (for more AoE). But if mobs are clumping, you're gonna be spamming Farmer's Scythe anyway.
- Wild Blow. An auto critical, especially on scythe, is a wonder. Also, works nicely against stance users. Doesn't mix with Whirlwind Attack though.
- Drunken Master (replaces Dwarven Stability and Whirling Charge, but someone here just doesn't like to get drunk... :-P)
- Mystic Sweep and/or Eremite's Attack if you're a fan of 3/4 sec.
- No secondary... so, do whatever you want with it.

I'm pretty sure I forgot something... But it's 5:30 am, so I forgive myself in advance

Dmitri3 · Oct 22, 2008, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Last time I checked you could use any snathe because it would just convert your damage...

And with no forms and scythe attack elites you just limited yourself to 1 useful elite. EDA and even that is horrible in pve.

Judges Insight, once applied, will turn your damage to holy, so your snathe will essentially be wasted.

Example: I see a warrior using Conjure Flame (yeah, it happens...) and I enchant them with Judge's Insight. That will probably result in warrior being very angry since he will not gain any advantage from his Conjure... The funny part though, is that with Judge's Insight, he will steal deal more damage that with any Conjure.

Rothan Celt · Oct 22, 2008, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Onslaught (elite)
attackers insight
Pious assault
Chilling vic
Eremites attack
Wild blow
I am unstoppable

skill number 8 is optional use a rez or Asuran scan or I am the strongest.

Atts
12 > Scythe mastery +1+1
12 > Wind prayers + 1
3 > Mysticism

I think a onslaught build is right for you if ur anything like me you like running around and attacking fast and quickly spiking a single target to the death while providing light tankgage and dmg to adjacent targets. You may wish to sawp Eremites attack for vic sweep if you feel the need for a self heal however it pretty much has everything a derv should be bringing to the party a swell as fun to play. Seeing as I dnt like casting a ton of enchants this build suites me perfectly. Even if ur enchants are removed you are still capable of spiking a target to the death.

Even if I dnt win I will be fascinated in which build you will choose as I am of the same opinion of derv forms and running wounding strike constantly it bores me

.

I truly do think Onslaught is for you as dervs in my opinion do not have the best libary of elites.

the build dimitri suggested would be fun imo but zel vow is a waste of elite there are good non elite ways of E- control.

Dmitri3 · Oct 22, 2008, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rothan Celt

the build dimitri suggested would be fun imo but zel vow is a waste of elite there are good non elite ways of E- control.

I was quite skeptical about Zealous Vow at first, but then I figured, "what the heck?" and was quite surprised with it's results. Well, ok, I observed it more and only tried with PvP character since I don't have a PvE derv.

I'd suggest to try it first. 25 pipes of energy regen may seem like too much, but too much energy never hurts (getting equivalent of 25 pipes regen is quite rare, but I still can't grasp how awesome it could be, especially in energy denial area).
Nothing made Natural Healing easier on your energy that this (well, apart that thing with having no enchantments and all). :-p

Rothan Celt · Oct 22, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

it is a rather fun build i tried it myself pretty nifty but i still am not fond of Zel vow. Also i would include Chilling Victory in your build for a greater spike.

eximiis · Oct 23, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

How can a Team build with a Dervish not bring WS ?

Wounding strike is the "pwnd" skill of guild wars.

In pve, with coordination, you apply the almithy Deep Wound, followed by eremite's and mystic + damage form your teamates = you kill a foes each 5 seconds.

put in Orders (from team), aura of holy might, "save yourselves" and "for great justice"

Your are a killing machine and you nullfie 98% of the damage you team takes.

Can it be better ?

Dmitri3 · Oct 23, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

How can a Team build with a Dervish not bring WS ?

Wounding strike is the "pwnd" skill of guild wars.

In pve, with coordination, you apply the almithy Deep Wound, followed by eremite's and mystic + damage form your teamates = you kill a foes each 5 seconds.

put in Orders (from team), aura of holy might, "save yourselves" and "for great justice"

Your are a killing machine and you nullfie 98% of the damage you team takes.

Can it be better ?

Better? Probably no. Equal in effectiveness and not always running the same cookie cutter build, most definitely.

IMHO, every1 who says that a derv without elite scythe attacks or avatars is a useless derv, should've just stayed with Ursan.