Curse

ammad2006 · Dec 13, 2008, 12:34 AM // 00:34

How is this Avatar of Grenth build I made up due to the update?

Avatar of Grenth
Eternal Aura
Eremites Attack
Mystic Sweep
Protectors Strike
Heart of Fury
Save Yourselfs
Other skill such as Great Dwarf Armor, Sunspear Rez Sig, Aura of Holy Might, or anything else.

Use with a vamp sytche and armor with radiant/survivors mixed and matched.
THis build adds 23 life stealing per strike, and you can spam the attack skills cuz of their low recharge times. You use the chain, attack twice, and repeat.

Im debating wheter its better to run /ele to get conjure frost. You get extra damage, but lose both warrior skills.

All feedback will be appreciated!

-Lotus- · Dec 13, 2008, 01:07 AM // 01:07

needs aura of holy might

OutlawFMA · Dec 13, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09

He already said Aura of Holy might.

CyclonicYoh · Dec 13, 2008, 01:44 AM // 01:44

given that you steal health regardless, attacking faster, via daggers or a sword might be a good option. Warrior also merits PBAoE as whirwind or cyclone axe may be a better choice than a scythe as it triggers on all hits.

Sirius-NZ · Dec 13, 2008, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Not sure how well it'll deal damage - I don't hear of a lot of dervishes using non-derv weapons (it's usually the other way around) - but that could produce some good results.

Xx Da Best Xx · Dec 13, 2008, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Seems like a pretty solid build IMO.

gunster · Dec 13, 2008, 04:25 AM // 04:25

I'd advise using daggers over scythes, but other than that, looks pretty good.

-Lotus- · Dec 13, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutlawFMA

He already said Aura of Holy might.

well... It needs more than one copy.

ammad2006 · Dec 13, 2008, 01:34 PM // 13:34

I prefer sythes over daggers cuz of the pbaoe, but ill consider using daggers.

Burst Cancel · Dec 13, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Daggers is a waste of time. I realize that people are trying to shoehorn their shiny new Grenth into as many builds as possible, but realize that there's still nothing better for general dagger DPS than MBDS.

Grenth looks better than Mel/Lyssa for HM PvE now, but I probably still wouldn't take it over WS or Reaper's.

Darkside · Dec 14, 2008, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ammad2006

How is this Avatar of Grenth build I made up due to the update?

Avatar of Grenth
Eternal Aura
Eremites Attack
Mystic Sweep
Protectors Strike
Heart of Fury
Save Yourselfs
Other skill such as Great Dwarf Armor, Sunspear Rez Sig, Aura of Holy Might, or anything else.

Use with a vamp sytche and armor with radiant/survivors mixed and matched.
THis build adds 23 life stealing per strike, and you can spam the attack skills cuz of their low recharge times. You use the chain, attack twice, and repeat.

Im debating wheter its better to run /ele to get conjure frost. You get extra damage, but lose both warrior skills.

All feedback will be appreciated!

FYI You'll get a lot more damage using Aura of Holy Might over conjure frost. This build looks pretty solid btw.

Mr. Undisclosed · Dec 14, 2008, 08:22 AM // 08:22

WTB whirlwind attack

Chthon · Dec 17, 2008, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

FYI You'll get a lot more damage using Aura of Holy Might over conjure frost.

Are you sure about that?

If we assume a customized max damage scythe, 14 scythe mastery, no critical hits (since they're partially monster-level-dependent, and that's obnoxious to control for), enough stat points for 8 water magic, and a lux/kurz rank of 5, then we get:

Average Damage v. Monster Armor 60:
Aura of Holy Might: ((9 + 41) / 2) * 1.2 * (2^((89 - 60) / 40)) ~= 50
Conjure Frost: (((9 + 41) / 2) * 1.2 * (2^((64 - 60) / 40))) + 13 ~= 45

Average Damage v. Monster Armor 80:
Aura of Holy Might: ((9 + 41) / 2) * 1.2 * (2^((89 - 80) / 40)) ~= 35
Conjure Frost: (((9 + 41) / 2) * 1.2 * (2^((64 - 80) / 40))) + 13 ~= 36

Average Damage v. Monster Armor 100:
Aura of Holy Might: ((9 + 41) / 2) * 1.2 * (2^((89 - 100) / 40)) = ~25
Conjure Frost: (((9 + 41) / 2) * 1.2 * (2^((64 - 100) / 40))) + 13 ~= 29

And frost continues to gain as monster armor increases.

The Meth · Dec 17, 2008, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Holy damage won't have to deal with special elemental resists (rangers, eles, half the enemies in shiverpeaks), will double vs undead, and requires no specific secondary or attribute points. Remember that critical hits also will improve AoHM scythe damage more then conjure frost damage, and we have a winner there. Not counting crits is kind of a big thing when were dealing with scythes, though I don't feel like going through the calculations.

Enemy levels higher then you don't influence your critical rate btw (or if they do its nigh negligable), I tested that a while back over about 500 hits. Had something like a 17% critical rate with 12 in the attribute, which is right in the middle of the 3! different critical %rates listed on guildwiki. This was against a level 26 enemy.

Darkside · Dec 17, 2008, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Are you sure about that?

If we assume a customized max damage scythe, 14 scythe mastery, no critical hits (since they're partially monster-level-dependent, and that's obnoxious to control for), enough stat points for 8 water magic, and a lux/kurz rank of 5, then we get:

Average Damage v. Monster Armor 60:
Aura of Holy Might: ((9 + 41) / 2) * 1.2 * (2^((89 - 60) / 40)) ~= 50
Conjure Frost: (((9 + 41) / 2) * 1.2 * (2^((64 - 60) / 40))) + 13 ~= 45

Average Damage v. Monster Armor 80:
Aura of Holy Might: ((9 + 41) / 2) * 1.2 * (2^((89 - 80) / 40)) ~= 35
Conjure Frost: (((9 + 41) / 2) * 1.2 * (2^((64 - 80) / 40))) + 13 ~= 36

Average Damage v. Monster Armor 100:
Aura of Holy Might: ((9 + 41) / 2) * 1.2 * (2^((89 - 100) / 40)) = ~25
Conjure Frost: (((9 + 41) / 2) * 1.2 * (2^((64 - 100) / 40))) + 13 ~= 29

And frost continues to gain as monster armor increases.

\

Have you actually done tests or have you just done the math wrong? I've done tests and Aura of Holy Might wins hands down. A small bonus in damage of 10ish points doesn't even compare to Aura of Holy Might.

zwei2stein · Dec 17, 2008, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed

WTB whirlwind attack

And Cyclone Axe comes to mind for some reason.

The Meth · Dec 17, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

\

Have you actually done tests or have you just done the math wrong? I've done tests and Aura of Holy Might wins hands down. A small bonus in damage of 10ish points doesn't even compare to Aura of Holy Might.

He also forgot +15% from weapon inscriptions. Since I'm more awake today I'll give you my full calculation:

Base weapon damage is 9-41. At 14 scythe mastery the armor bypassing bonus over 60 armor is 4, translating into about a 7% damage increase making the base weapon damage at 14 scythe mastery without criticals 9.63-43.87. A critical will do 43.97 * 1.41 = 61.86 damage. Assuming a critical rate of 20% (which is consistent with what I have personally tested), we have an average damage per hit without modifications of (43.87+9.63)/2 * .8 + 61.86 * .2 = 33.77 damage on average. Assuming +20% and +15% mods, we get 46.6 damage per hit on average including mods (not vampiric though, it wont shift the calculations either way) and criticals.

Now, against 60 armor we have
conjure frost at 8 water magic : 46.6 + 13 = 59.6 damage
AoHM at 1 faction rank, 43% increase: 46.6 * 1.43 = 66.6 damage
AoHM at 5 faction rank, 54% increase: 46.6 * 1.54 = 71.8 damage
AoHM at 10 faction rank,74% increase: 46.6 * 1.74 = 81.1 damage

Against 80 armor:
Conjure frost: 46 damage
AoHM @ 1 : 47.2 damage
AoHM @ 5 : 50.9 damage
AoHM @ 10: 57.5 damage

Against 100 armor:
Conjure frost: 36.3 damage
AoHM @ 1: 33.3 damage
AoHM @ 5: 35.9 damage
AoHM @ 10: 40.55 damage

So overall even when you have only r1 in a faction title you should be using AoHM. Out of everything you face the only ones that are going to have 100 or more against holy damage are going to be warriors and paragons, everything else in PvE will be 90ish or lower. Conjure frost on the other hand has to deal with higher armor's on ele's, ranger's, and random enemies with special resists. Not to mention AoHM takes no attributes, takes no secondary, and has some decent AoE damage ontop of it. On the other hand, it does use up a PvE skill slot.

Chthon · Dec 18, 2008, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

He also forgot +15% from weapon inscriptions

That I did.

Quote:

Assuming a critical rate of 20%

That is wrong. I can't seem to find a valid link to SonOfRah's old article with the formula, but the long and short of it is that critical chance scales linearly with the attacker-defender level difference.

So, being assed to do it again without criticals (same assumptions as last post):

Monster 60
AOHM: 57
Frost: 50

Monster 80
AOHM: 40
Frost: 39

Monster 100
AOHM: 29
Frost: 31

At this point I go, "hmmm... so what exactly is the average base armor for HM monsters?" I *think* that most of them aren't sitting up there over 100 (though some sure are), so I'm going to reverse myself here: AOHM looks better than frost, if marginally so.

FoxBat · Dec 18, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Monster level affects armor-respecting damage too, and it also affects your critical rate. This is really what kills eles in hard mode, not the armor per say.

Pocketmancer · Dec 18, 2008, 07:11 AM // 07:11

I ran a build similar to this but with [[Wild Blow] since that attack always causes a critical hit. Pretty reliable as a healing skill ironically...