Curse

legacyofkain85 · Feb 07, 2009, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

As if you need deep wound every 3 seconds in PvE.

AoM also means some health boost and ignore all conditions including that deep wound you feel it is needed 3 seconds.

[[Reaper's sweep] is pretty strong in PvE.

yes u do sometimes when mobs die in 3 seconds also [wounding strike] is deep wound on demand where [reaper's sweep] is deep wound only if target is below 50% hp,thb it comes down to personal preference ,each skill has its benefits ,i like wounding strike more.

Darkside · Feb 07, 2009, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Of course WS is 0 damage bonus.

Either 20% or 100, whichever is the lowest. Dealing the last 100 damage or the first 100 damage seems the same.

It isn't the same because it's a lot more difficult to apply DW to a target below 50% with Reapers. 1 you may have been tempted by its oh so great damage to use it earlier or against another monster and are still waiting for it to recharge and 2 you might have trouble timing it right and the monster will die before you even get to apply a DW. If you would have hit the monster with DW first it would have probably died even faster making your character more efficient.

Quote:

Fortunately it also deals bonus damage and deepwound.

Hurray...here's what it boils down to for me.

The deep wound is to conditional - I wanna apply a deep wound when I want to not when the monster is already half dead.

Enchantment removal is only needed in special cases and mostly useless. - I'd probably just have a hero bring enchantment removal if I really wanted it.

It has a 8 second recharge. - Twice as long as wounding strike, which in my book makes it twice as bad.

The bonus damage is nice and there is obviously nothing bad to say about that but that's all it has. Everything else is conditional... IF the monsters below 50% health. IF he happens to have a good enchantment up...too many if's for me.

Quote:

While you have some valid points, you won't need to be casting Avatar every time u would use WS. And Eternal Aura is good at damage dealing. +100 health isn't something to sneeze at (dervishes are a bit squishy compared to other frontliners), not when coupled with immunity to conditions (and there are other conditions besides cripple and blindness).

No you don't have to cast Melandru everytime you have to cast it once and your energy pool is gone. If you end up having to recast it mid-battle your going to be left c-spacing and that lowers your dps significantly.

I do admit that Eternal Aura can do some nice AoE with a high sunspear rank, most dervish's I see don't even use it as an offensive weapon and just cast it outside of battle like idiots which is unfortunate.

+100 life doesn't make much of a difference, don't get me wrong its nice to have that cushion but...in HM that's 1 or 2 hits 3 if your lucky. If a group of monsters gank you that 100 life isn't going to save you. The only advantage it gives you is if your life is very high the monsters tend to avoid you and move on to flimsier targets.

I'm well aware that there are conditions in the game other then blindness and cripple. I was just pointing out two that are the bane of melee characters.

Quote:

So lets just say that [[wounding strike] isn't an auto-pick when compared with [[Reaper's sweep] and [[avatar of melandru].

Auto-pick over Reaper's almost every time. I wouldn't even put reaper's in the top tier of elite's a Dervish can use.

Most people use it to be "different". Everyone is using wounding strike so I'm gonna use Reapers and be all unique.

Improvavel · Feb 07, 2009, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

It isn't the same because it's a lot more difficult to apply DW to a target below 50% with Reapers. 1 you may have been tempted by its oh so great damage to use it earlier or against another monster and are still waiting for it to recharge and 2 you might have trouble timing it right and the monster will die before you even get to apply a DW. If you would have hit the monster with DW first it would have probably died even faster making your character more efficient.

If a guy goes from 50% to 0% without a chance to connect a deep wound, I guess DW wasn't needed. On the other hand if the target doesn't die in 3 seconds you are just there looking at the target with a useless elite. I know all mobs melt in 3 secs and no one can hit a monster with more than 1 attack, but then again, in that case dw isn't needed.

Quote:

Hurray...here's what it boils down to for me.

The deep wound is to conditional - I wanna apply a deep wound when I want to not when the monster is already half dead.

And that monster still deals the same damage or even more. In GvG dw everyone is very good cause a person with dw is much more spikable. U rarely spike single targets in PvE.

Quote:

Enchantment removal is only needed in special cases and mostly useless. - I'd probably just have a hero bring enchantment removal if I really wanted it.

Comes at no additional cost. Much like the bleeding from WS that is useless in PvE.

Quote:

The bonus damage is nice and there is obviously nothing bad to say about that but that's all it has. Everything else is conditional... IF the monsters below 50% health. IF he happens to have a good enchantment up...too many if's for me.

Or you could say it deals a shitload of damage, and may remove an enchantment or add even more damage.

Quote:

No you don't have to cast Melandru everytime you have to cast it once and your energy pool is gone. If you end up having to recast it mid-battle your going to be left c-spacing and that lowers your dps significantly.

[[Attacker's insight @4] with weapon swapping if need be.

Quote:

I do admit that Eternal Aura can do some nice AoE with a high sunspear rank, most dervish's I see don't even use it as an offensive weapon and just cast it outside of battle like idiots which is unfortunate.

Being an idiot or a genius is irrelevant to the usefulness of a skill.

Quote:

+100 life doesn't make much of a difference, don't get me wrong its nice to have that cushion but...in HM that's 1 or 2 hits 3 if your lucky. If a group of monsters gank you that 100 life isn't going to save you. The only advantage it gives you is if your life is very high the monsters tend to avoid you and move on to flimsier targets.

I agree that +100 life isn't enough for the elite status. +40 armor isn't either. The difference is immunity to conditions is really good.

Quote:

I'm well aware that there are conditions in the game other then blindness and cripple. I was just pointing out two that are the bane of melee characters.

Weakness is annoying as hell too, especially in a profession with such high weapon damage.

Quote:

Most people use it to be "different". Everyone is using wounding strike so I'm gonna use Reapers and be all unique.

Most people (most ppl being a minority that isn't using balthazar or lyssa) use it because that's what people use in GvG.

WS is fantastic in GvG (that is, if you can find someone sturdy enough to carry it) because of the pressure. Someone with dw is someone that can die at any moment. In PvE that is very unimportant.

The truth is dervishes are the most frail of the 3 frontliners. In HM I wouldn't take anything over melandru

I used WS extensively with my assassin. It was great, but I tried RS and must say I won't roll back.

Darkside · Feb 07, 2009, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

If a guy goes from 50% to 0% without a chance to connect a deep wound, I guess DW wasn't needed. On the other hand if the target doesn't die in 3 seconds you are just there looking at the target with a useless elite. I know all mobs melt in 3 secs and no one can hit a monster with more than 1 attack, but then again, in that case dw isn't needed.

It's not relevant if it was needed or not what's relevant is the fact that said monster would have probably died faster had you opened with a dw.

Quote:

And that monster still deals the same damage or even more. In GvG dw everyone is very good cause a person with dw is much more spikable. U rarely spike single targets in PvE.

I dunno I'd say its 50/50 with scythe aoe. Sometimes you get lucky and manage to ball up all your foes other times not so lucky. Someone claiming to do it 90% of the time is full of shit.

Quote:

Comes at no additional cost. Much like the bleeding from WS that is useless in PvE.

Still extra degen damage that's there even if its not much.

Quote:

Or you could say it deals a shitload of damage, and may remove an enchantment or add even more damage.

Sure you could call it a shitload...

Quote:

[[Attacker's insight @4] with weapon swapping if need be.

Negative energy pool friend... and you still need energy to cast attacker's insight.

Quote:

Being an idiot or a genius is irrelevant to the usefulness of a skill.

Not completely true but I won't bother getting into it.

Quote:

I agree that +100 life isn't enough for the elite status. +40 armor isn't either. The difference is immunity to conditions is really good.

Not sure why you mentioned this...not like I said Avatar of Balthazar was any good.

Quote:

Weakness is annoying as hell too, especially in a profession with such high weapon damage.

Yah all conditions are a little annoying I just didn't feel the need to point out that fact. Next time I'll make sure to list them all ... just for the fun of it.

Quote:

Most people (most ppl being a minority that isn't using balthazar or lyssa) use it because that's what people use in GvG.

Balthazar is shit but I'd use Lyssa over reapers. Lyssa's bonus damage to foes activating skills out-damages reaper's on its own without the bonus damage of an attack skill on top of that.

iVendetta · Feb 07, 2009, 05:26 PM // 17:26

For heaven's sake, this isn't a [[Wounding Strike] versus [[Reaper's Sweep] debate.

Improvavel · Feb 07, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

It's not relevant if it was needed or not what's relevant is the fact that said monster would have probably died faster had you opened with a dw.

U need to deal the same damage. DW first or last is the same.

Quote:

I dunno I'd say its 50/50 with scythe aoe. Sometimes you get lucky and manage to ball up all your foes other times not so lucky. Someone claiming to do it 90% of the time is full of shit.

Dunno what do you mean, but a decent frontliner will get at least all the melee by pulling in semi-circular away.

Quote:

Negative energy pool friend... and you still need energy to cast attacker's insight.

You have 25 energy base. Melandru ends mid fight. Swap to staff, cast attackers. Swap to weapon. 2 free attacks. Try it.

Quote:

Not sure why you mentioned this...not like I said Avatar of Balthazar was any good.

Did I say you did? I just said +100 health is great with immunity to conditions.

Quote:

Yah all conditions are a little annoying I just didn't feel the need to point out that fact. Next time I'll make sure to list them all ... just for the fun of it.

Weakness reduces your base damage by a tad over 66%. Scythe base damage is high.

Just try melandru and reapers sweep. You might get surprised or you might still consider that WS is superior. It might depends on what type of other players and heroes builds ur party using.

All I was saying is that WS isn't the auto-choice elite skill to dervs.

Darkside · Feb 08, 2009, 12:06 AM // 00:06

I'm not even going to bother commenting on most of that I've already made my point and I'm tired of repeating myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Weakness reduces your base damage by a tad over 66%. Scythe base damage is high.

I'm aware of that...amazingly after 3 years of playing I know how all the conditions work.

Quote:

Just try melandru and reapers sweep. You might get surprised or you might still consider that WS is superior. It might depends on what type of other players and heroes builds ur party using.

All I was saying is that WS isn't the auto-choice elite skill to dervs.

I've used both elite's on my bar at one time or another. I still use Avatar of Melandru regularly when I know an area has an abundance of nasty conditions, shards of orr comes to mind. Reaper's on the other hand I used for a while in an attempt to understand what people see in it and after a few months I just said screw this its just not as good as wounding strike, for the reasons I've already posted.

No WS isn't the auto-choice elite but its a better choice then Reaper's most of the time.