Curse

tuperwho · Feb 05, 2009, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Hi all,

I'm a huge fan of coming up with skill combo's/builds on my own, instead of just copying the cookie cutters. I like to think that they're more effective, since I know the skills and have implemented them to fit together (I of course concede that established builds are just that b/c they're known to be powerful, but humor me if you will). I've done my homework, looking at skills on wiki, and seeing what people like on pvx, plus trying them on my own.... so I'm working on creating something to my own tastes. I'm looking for suggestions from those with more experience to max my build (and also to narrow it down from 11 or so possibilities).

Lvl 17 (soon to be 20) D/W, entirely PvE, with Proph., Factions, and NF (but no EoTN). As it stands, I'll be using max scythe and mysticism attributes.... few spare points can go anywhere. The first few skills are fairly set, then the ?'s come

1) [aura of holy might]
2) [heart of fury]
3) [distracting blow] -- almost all my char's carry an interrupt
4) [reaper's sweep]
5) heal -- [faithful intervention] or [mystic vigor]. FI is overall much cheaper as far as energy expenditure goes. It also gets "used" less, in that MV would be triggering regularly. And with 3 enchantments (+ any from monks, etc.) plus hitting multiple targets, plus IAS, would be doing a pretty nice flow of blue numbers

Opinions?
6) - 8) more attacks: [mystic sweep], [victorious sweep], [wild blow], [whirlwind attack], or [chilling victory]. Whirlwind attack is nice, for even more hits than normal, plus the fact that it's adrenaline based (builds fast with hitting adjacent targets), so saves a bit of energy. Wild blow obviously has useful implications for removing stances... but is it worth having all the time? Is a crit. worth that much more than a + damage attack? And of course, this kinda negates the usefulness of Whirlwind attack. Mystic sweep just seems to make sense, as it'll always be worth + 30 damage, and has the faster attack time "spike" nature to it. Plus, Mystic sweep and victorious have very fast recharges, allowing more spamming. Victorious has the added benefit of incorporating healing -- but is this needed with either Faithful Int. or Mystic Vigor? Other opinions?

Yes, I know it's PvE and it's easy, and this is all probably overkill/overthought, but I'd still appreciate feedback. Also, H/H teams, or my guildies don't complain, so I'm not worried about not having a res -- can add it when needed. Thanks in advance!

Improvavel · Feb 05, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Your build seems reasonable. I wouldn't run any self heal though.

I feel very dirty by not running [[Avatar of Melandru] when I log on my dervish.

Winterclaw · Feb 05, 2009, 01:53 AM // 01:53

AoM is a bit meh unless you are going into a condition (blind) heavy area.

Your self-heals leave something to be desired though and you should switch to [wounding strike] asap.

Improvavel · Feb 05, 2009, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

AoM is a bit meh unless you are going into a condition (blind) heavy area.

Your self-heals leave something to be desired though and you should switch to [wounding strike] asap.

As if you need deep wound every 3 seconds in PvE.

AoM also means some health boost and ignore all conditions including that deep wound you feel it is needed 3 seconds.

[[Reaper's sweep] is pretty strong in PvE.

the savage nornbear · Feb 05, 2009, 03:54 AM // 03:54

AoE deep wound is good.

iVendetta · Feb 05, 2009, 04:24 AM // 04:24

I was playing around with different skill combination and I tried this out:

[build prof=D/any name="iVendetta's VoS Play-around" box scythemastery=10+1+1 mysticism=10+1 earthprayers=11+1 desc="Armor: Full Radiant insignias with correct runes{br}Weapon: Zealous Scythe of Enchanting with Strength and Honor Inscription{br}Usage: Cast enchantments in order from right to left and use attack skills wisely due to heavy energy costs of the build"][Victorious Sweep][Mystic Sweep][Chilling Victory][Mystic Regeneration][Heart of Fury][Asuran Scan][Aura of Holy Might][Vow of Strength][/build]

I'll spec the attributes later because the runes set on my armor were for a different build. I don't have EotN so I can't use [[Asuran Scan]. Even so, it wreaks havoc- especially if you've got a hero with [[Splinter Weapon]. I would recommend full radiant insignias on this because of the heavy energy cost. Perhaps if you run an Elementalist as a secondary, you can use [[Glyph of Lesser Energy]. Or even [[Conjure Flame]/[[Conjure Frost]/[[Conjure Lightning] if you're addicted to tri-digit patterns (the energy really becomes a problem then).

[build prof=D/E name="iVendetta's VoS Play-around" box scythemastery=10+1+1 mysticism=10+1 earthprayers=11+1 desc="Armor: Full Radiant insignias with correct runes{br}Weapon: Zealous Scythe of Enchanting with Strength and Honor Inscription{br}Usage: Cast enchantments in order from right to left (also use GoLE) and use attack skills wisely due to heavy energy costs of the build"][Victorious Sweep][Mystic Sweep][Chilling Victory][Mystic Regeneration][Heart of Fury][GoLE][Aura of Holy Might][Vow of Strength][/build]

Good luck.

Improvavel · Feb 05, 2009, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by the savage nornbear

AoE deep wound is good.

So is armor ignoring damage with either enchant removal or AoE deep wound.

Darkside · Feb 05, 2009, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

As if you need deep wound every 3 seconds in PvE.

You should since monsters drop like flies in PvE and being able to apply deep wound to your next target quickly makes them die even faster.

CoonerTheRed · Feb 05, 2009, 08:28 PM // 20:28

To answer the OP...

one of those slots should get burned in as a Mystic Sweep or Eremite's attack. The "followup attack" should be standard on all derv bars. Get used to doing mini-spikes all the time with main attack -> mystic sweep.

Wild blow is great if you're facing stances (read, all of Kourna and many other ranger-heavy areas), but no, does not do better than whirlwind attack otherwise. The other nice thing about whirlwind is that it saves energy for more spammage. You might consider a crippling skill... these can be handy if you have free slots (which you seem to because of no EoTN PvE skills).

Really most of your thoughts seem pretty decent, try them out and find what you like. Just take Mystic/Eremites. Always.

tuperwho · Feb 05, 2009, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Thanks everyone, and especially Cooner -- that's the kind of feedback I was looking for.

And yeah, I had already settled on whirlwind, and when I need stance removal, trading wild blow for it (as the removes all adrenaline condition makes having both at the same time contradictory).

Any other opinions on the attack skills? How about the heals? Other skills in general I should take?

edit: and what about [Save Yourselves!]?

Improvavel · Feb 05, 2009, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

You should since monsters drop like flies in PvE and being able to apply deep wound to your next target quickly makes them die even faster.

The monsters that drop like flies will drop like them regardless.

Those that have better builds might require something better.

[[Save yourselves] is a good choice. Leave the heals for the healers.

Megas XLR · Feb 05, 2009, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Many people underestimate
[Whirling Charge]
[Dwarven Stability] (Optional)
[Zealous Vow]
[Save Yourselves]

iVendetta · Feb 05, 2009, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoonerTheRed

Just take Mystic/Eremites. Always.

[[Victorious Sweep] in most cases does it better.

Improvavel · Feb 06, 2009, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by iVendetta

[[Victorious Sweep] in most cases does it better.

Have to agree. Spike is for PvP, in PvE spike means a huge amount of AoE damage (most notably [[Splinter weapon (PvE)]). Ermites usage comes mostly from PvP.

iVendetta · Feb 06, 2009, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Have to agree. Spike is for PvP, in PvE spike means a huge amount of AoE damage (most notably [[Splinter weapon (PvE)]). Ermites is usage comes mostly PvP.

Indeed. The scythe's ability to strike multiple foes should be taken advantage of.

[Splinter Weapon (PvE)@9861433]+[Chilling Victory (PvE)@9861433] results in a very nice spike.

Darkside · Feb 06, 2009, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

The monsters that drop like flies will drop like them regardless.

Those that have better builds might require something better.

[[Save yourselves] is a good choice. Leave the heals for the healers.

Yah but why not help expedite the process? Slow and steady doesn't win the race. You could have inflicted bleeding and dw on two targets by the time reaper's recharges once. In PvE there aren't many enchantments that absolutely NEED to be removed from a target making the enchantment removal aspect of this skill mediocre at best and the DW is a tad too conditional for my taste. If you use the skill on a healthy target above 50% health you remove an enchantment yay, and if you try and wait to use it to inflict a DW the target is probably already dead.

Reaper's sweep isn't horrible...but It's not the best option in PvE.

Quote:

I was playing around with different skill combination and I tried this out:

Dervish / No profession
10 + 1 + 1 Scythe Mastery
10 + 1 Mysticism
11 + 1 Earth Prayers
Armor: Full Radiant insignias with correct runes
Weapon: Zealous Scythe of Enchanting with Strength and Honor Inscription
Usage: Cast enchantments in order from right to left and use attack skills wisely due to heavy energy costs of the build
Whenever an Enchantment ends, you gain 11 Health and 3 Energy.

[Copy [iVendetta's VoS Play-around;OgCjkqrLrSQXMXDYsXibvlygfbA]

Don't wanna shit on your parade vendetta but VoS is garbage...it was decent and then they...not sure if it was suppose to be a buff of nerf or what they were thinking but now its just horribly bad. Now you have to make sure that no one on your team dishes out any conditions just so you can make sure your elite skill has a purpose. Not to mention the fact that applying nasty conditions to your opposition is a good thing.

Improvavel · Feb 06, 2009, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

Yah but why not help expedite the process? Slow and steady doesn't win the race. You could have inflicted bleeding and dw on two targets by the time reaper's recharges once. In PvE there aren't many enchantments that absolutely NEED to be removed from a target making the enchantment removal aspect of this skill mediocre at best and the DW is a tad too conditional for my taste. If you use the skill on a healthy target above 50% health you remove an enchantment yay, and if you try and wait to use it to inflict a DW the target is probably already dead.

Reaper's sweep isn't horrible...but It's not the best option in PvE.

You forgetting that little thing about reapers sweep dealing a shitload of armor ignoring damage.

The difference is that with WS you open the battle with that (and bleeding who the hell cares especially if they drop like flies). With reapers sweep you open the battle with other attack skill.

There are some groups out there, most notably in gwen, that use some enchantments. Having a skill that deals shitloads of damage and either removes an enchantment or gets a deepwound to even deal more shitloads of damage seems pretty sweet.

WS is a PvP thing. For PvE [[Avatar of Melandru] with [[wearying strike] makes for a better all around dervish than one using [[wounding strike] or [[reaper's sweep].

iVendetta · Feb 06, 2009, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

Don't wanna shit on your parade vendetta but VoS is garbage...it was decent and then they...not sure if it was suppose to be a buff of nerf or what they were thinking but now its just horribly bad. Now you have to make sure that no one on your team dishes out any conditions just so you can make sure your elite skill has a purpose. Not to mention the fact that applying nasty conditions to your opposition is a good thing.

It was a play-around. ;/

Darkside · Feb 06, 2009, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

You forgetting that little thing about reapers sweep dealing a shitload of armor ignoring damage.

Not forgetting it... it's not even that much of a damage bonus. Mystic sweep powered by three enchantments does almost as much damage, has a faster recharge and attack animation.

Quote:

The difference is that with WS you open the battle with that (and bleeding who the hell cares especially if they drop like flies). With reapers sweep you open the battle with other attack skill.

It's better to hit a target with DW right away because you take away 20% of it's life without actually having to do the damage.

Quote:

There are some groups out there, most notably in gwen, that use some enchantments. Having a skill that deals shitloads of damage and either removes an enchantment or gets a deepwound to even deal more shitloads of damage seems pretty sweet.

Exactly my point...you mention "some groups out there" you don't run a skill all the time because "some groups out there" will run enchantments that might give you trouble.

Quote:

WS is a PvP thing. For PvE [[Avatar of Melandru] with [[wearying strike] makes for a better all around dervish than one using [[wounding strike] or [[reaper's sweep].

Wounding Strike isn't just a PvP thing. It cost less then the Melandru+Wearying combination allowing for easier e-management and the option to bring along another PvE skill other then Eternal Aura which can mean more damage or the option of bringing Save Yourselves! to help out the party. Obviously, a Melandru derv can also bring Save Yourselves! but if it does his damage will suffer.

Melandru is great in condition heavy areas but again this is that "some groups out there" thing. Not all groups are running blind and cripple to impede your attacks. There is no reason what-so-ever to bring Melandru into an area where conditions are not a problem.

Improvavel · Feb 07, 2009, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

Not forgetting it... it's not even that much of a damage bonus. Mystic sweep powered by three enchantments does almost as much damage, has a faster recharge and attack animation.

Of course WS is 0 damage bonus.

Quote:

It's better to hit a target with DW right away because you take away 20% of it's life without actually having to do the damage.

Either 20% or 100, whichever is the lowest. Dealing the last 100 damage or the first 100 damage seems the same.

Quote:

Exactly my point...you mention "some groups out there" you don't run a skill all the time because "some groups out there" will run enchantments that might give you trouble.

Fortunately it also deals bonus damage and deepwound.

Quote:

Wounding Strike isn't just a PvP thing. It cost less then the Melandru+Wearying combination allowing for easier e-management and the option to bring along another PvE skill other then Eternal Aura which can mean more damage or the option of bringing Save Yourselves! to help out the party. Obviously, a Melandru derv can also bring Save Yourselves! but if it does his damage will suffer.

Melandru is great in condition heavy areas but again this is that "some groups out there" thing. Not all groups are running blind and cripple to impede your attacks. There is no reason what-so-ever to bring Melandru into an area where conditions are not a problem.

While you have some valid points, you won't need to be casting Avatar every time u would use WS. And Eternal Aura is good at damage dealing. +100 health isn't something to sneeze at (dervishes are a bit squishy compared to other frontliners), not when coupled with immunity to conditions (and there are other conditions besides cripple and blindness).

So lets just say that [[wounding strike] isn't an auto-pick when compared with [[Reaper's sweep] and [[avatar of melandru].