Curse

Yggdrasil · Jan 16, 2009, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Why do you all keep suggesting [Protector's strike]?

It's being suggested in relation to Lyssa builds, where the activation time is the deciding factor not the skills' + damage, being able to get a quick attack in during skill activation will net a much larger bonus from your avatar in that case.

iVendetta · Jan 17, 2009, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

[Avatar of Melandru]+[Wearying Strike] is a much stronger overall frontliner than say, a dervish with [wounding strike].

[Wounding Strike][Malicious Strike]
I just inflicted bleeding and deep wound, hit a deadly critical with an extra 10 points of damage, and saved 20 energy.

Also saves a slot for a skill that would've been [Eternal Aura].

In all seriousness, I see the ideology behind AoM and Wearying Strike, but taking into consideration the fact that you will have monks (PvE), there isn't really much to worry about conditions.

Snow Bunny · Jan 17, 2009, 02:00 AM // 02:00

An AoM dervish does comparable damage, and is more resilient, than the WS derv.

[DE] · Jan 17, 2009, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by iVendetta

[Wounding Strike][Malicious Strike]
I just inflicted bleeding and deep wound, hit a deadly critical with an extra 10 points of damage, and saved 20 energy.

Also saves a slot for a skill that would've been [Eternal Aura].

Except you're not casting Melandru everytime you go for a deep wound? Not to mention that if you did want to go with your flawed argument you'd need to include your enchantment in order to hit for a deep wound with Wounding Strike.

But anyways, carry on.

Darkside · Jan 17, 2009, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

An AoM dervish does comparable damage, and is more resilient, than the WS derv.

A good bar with Avatar of Melandru on it is probably the most versatile bar you can have as a dervish. Being immune to conditions takes away a lot of melee hate, but I'm not sure the damage is comparable.

WS builds don't have the energy restrictions that someone with Avatar of Melandru on their bar does. WS with a little e-management can spam deep wound and spike attacks almost indefinitely.

A Melandru build on the other hand has to watch energy lvls very carefully because if the avatar goes down...your wonderful wearying strike becomes not only useless but a liability. Sure you can use it to dw someone but after that you're weakened and your next swing won't be packing much of a punch. Not to mention if a battle runs long and you have to put the avatar up again mid battle. Once it's back up you have zero energy for attack skills or enchantments and you could be left c spacing without an IAS which really lowers your damage potential.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages but from my experience my WS build has higher dps then my Melandru build. Of course if you're blind your dps is close to nil and that's where the versatility of Melandru comes in.

Pick your build depending on the foes you will encounter. Don't limit yourself to one build its a sure way to fail.

MegaVolti · Jan 17, 2009, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Above average build but not quite perfect.

1. [[asuran scan] on a Dervish is questionable. You want to hit 3 foes if possible and [[asuran scan] works only on one. On top of that you need about all your mana to spam attack skills, which is (if you position yourself right) more effective then casting [[asuran scan]

2. You should mention heroes. Always bring [[order of pain], [[dark fury] and [[patient spirit]. It doesn't matter if you don't need adrenalin or the bonus damage doesn't trigger on you. It gives you unlimited mana, more even then Necromancers get from Soul Reaping. Always bring them (and somebody in your party will have a use for it besides energy gain).

3. With those skills your need for [[attacker's insight] is gone. And you now have enough mana to spam attack skills. Bring [[eremite's attack] and either [[victorious sweep] or [[heart of fury] instead of [[attacker's insight] and [[asuran scan].

In short:
[avatar of melandru][heart of fury][aura of holy might][Eternal Aura][draw conditions][wearying strike][eremite's attack][mystic sweep]
[avatar of melandru][aura of holy might][Eternal Aura][draw conditions][wearying strike][eremite's attack][mystic sweep][victorious sweep]

Heroes:
[order of pain][dark fury][patient spirit]

Improvavel · Jan 17, 2009, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

A Melandru build on the other hand has to watch energy lvls very carefully because if the avatar goes down...your wonderful wearying strike becomes not only useless but a liability.

Swap for a Staff, Cast avatar, [[Attacker's Insight @4] and some other random enchantment, get your scythe and resume killing.

Snow Bunny · Jan 17, 2009, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

Above average build but not quite perfect.

1. [[asuran scan] on a Dervish is questionable. You want to hit 3 foes if possible and [[asuran scan] works only on one. On top of that you need about all your mana to spam attack skills, which is (if you position yourself right) more effective then casting [[asuran scan]

2. You should mention heroes. Always bring [[order of pain], [[dark fury] and [[patient spirit]. It doesn't matter if you don't need adrenalin or the bonus damage doesn't trigger on you. It gives you unlimited mana, more even then Necromancers get from Soul Reaping. Always bring them (and somebody in your party will have a use for it besides energy gain).

3. With those skills your need for [[attacker's insight] is gone. And you now have enough mana to spam attack skills. Bring [[eremite's attack] and either [[victorious sweep] or [[heart of fury] instead of [[attacker's insight] and [[asuran scan].

In short:
[avatar of melandru][heart of fury][aura of holy might][Eternal Aura][draw conditions][wearying strike][eremite's attack][mystic sweep]
[avatar of melandru][aura of holy might][Eternal Aura][draw conditions][wearying strike][eremite's attack][mystic sweep][victorious sweep]

I have derv'd much more than you and I can tell you that Orders does not compensate for Attacker's Insight.

Everyone has this huge erection for Eremite's Attack, which stems from the "Well, PvPers used it, we should use it too" school of thought. Let me explain something - Eremite's was used because of a 1/2 second activation time, which meant that you could spike someone with it. WS was used because of the strength of signet mesmers, which meant against 60 AL targets you could throw DW onto lvl20's which packed around 500-600 HP apiece. Seeing as I monked a lot in the WS+SigMes meta, I can tell you that WS was to constrict the ability of monks to heal through the dervs' heavy damage, mainly applied through Mystic Sweep and Chilling Victory. WS does not tack on additional damage - it's DW every 3 seconds, which is much stronger in PvP than in PvE. In PvE, your damage is nettled against lvl28's with a boatload more armor than you, and thus the damage bonus, with DW every 6 seconds, which is quite quick, is more useful than DW and no damage every 3. If you think bleeding matters AT ALL you really need to rethink your arguments. You don't need DW every 3 seconds - zero conditions (No: cripple, disease, blind, deep wound, etc.) WITH deep wound is much stronger.

In PvP, WS dervs came into the spotlight with signet mesmers, and died out after signet mesmers, mainly because they're so easy to spike, with their 70 armor. Melandru's dervs were amazingly strong in PvP, and were strong until they were nerfed quite hard. Eternal Aura bypasses this.

As much as you all like to glamorize balling enemies up, it's not as common as one would think, or at least too uncommon to justify eremite's which would do less damage WITH ALL CONDITIONS met than either victorious or mystic in the current build.

Certain criticisms I'll allow, but the builds posted in response are pretty mediocre in comparison.

Darkside · Jan 18, 2009, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

Above average build but not quite perfect.

1. [asuran scan] on a Dervish is questionable. You want to hit 3 foes if possible and [[asuran scan] works only on one. On top of that you need about all your mana to spam attack skills, which is (if you position yourself right) more effective then casting [asuran scan]

It's not questionable at all your dps is increased by an insane amount on your primary target and you still do your normal damage vs adjacent foes if any...and with 25-30 energy using [attacker's insight] I've not found it to be an energy hog. I can cast it pretty liberally unless I run into heavy e-denial which doesn't happen all that often.

Quote:

Swap for a Staff, Cast avatar, Attacker's Insight and some other random enchantment, get your scythe and resume killing.

Yah and start c spacing because you will have a negative energy pool.

Quote:

As much as you all like to glamorize balling enemies up, it's not as common as one would think, or at least too uncommon to justify eremite's which would do less damage WITH ALL CONDITIONS met than either victorious or mystic in the current build.

[eremite's attack] isn't about balling up enemies its about causing the most damage possible in the shortest amount of time. So its all about activation time. Personally, I say this skill is crap unless its combined with [Avatar of Lyssa] since the avatar's bonus damage will make up for the fact that your target might not be in a balled up group. Both [eremite's attack] and [protector's strike] are staples of the Lyssa build. I wouldn't bother with them on any other PVE bar.

MegaVolti · Jan 18, 2009, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

It's not questionable at all your dps is increased by an insane amount on your primary target and you still do your normal damage vs adjacent foes if any...and with 25-30 energy using [attacker's insight] I've not found it to be an energy hog. I can cast it pretty liberally unless I run into heavy e-denial which doesn't happen all that often.

Yes, it's very useful against the primary target.
The problem with the initial build is that it has rarely any attack skills. So [[asuran scan] will boost the auto-attack damage most of the time, which doesn't really do that much.
An attack skill will give +30 armor ignoring damage to all targets hit by the scythe, which clearly beats auto attack + [[asuran scan].
Let's look at 10 seconds here: That means one [[wearying strike], two [[mystic sweep] and 4 normal attacks. With my combo you get one [[wearying strike], two [[mystic sweep], two [[eremite's attack] and two [[victorious sweep]. Even against a single target the bonus damage from attack skills can nearly compete with [[asuran scan].

Oh and Dervish was my main for a while before I switched to Mesmers (they are so much fun

). I probably haven't played as much as others here but I still got a lot of experience with my Dervish and playing with orders and [[patient spirit], I never ran into energy problems. Worst case scenario is that you have to manually help your hero so you get a new [[patient spirit] as soon as it runs out. 4 energy every 3 seconds + 8 energy every 5 seconds (orders) plus the 4 for each normal enchantment (your own and stuff like [[protective spirit] or [[aegis]) is just awesome.

Darkside · Jan 18, 2009, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

Yes, it's very useful against the primary target.
The problem with the initial build is that it has rarely any attack skills. So [[asuran scan] will boost the auto-attack damage most of the time, which doesn't really do that much.
An attack skill will give +30 armor ignoring damage to all targets hit by the scythe, which clearly beats auto attack + [[asuran scan].
Let's look at 10 seconds here: That means one [[wearying strike], two [[mystic sweep] and 4 normal attacks. With my combo you get one [[wearying strike], two [[mystic sweep], two [[eremite's attack] and two [[victorious sweep]. Even against a single target the bonus damage from attack skills can nearly compete with [[asuran scan].

Here's some numbers for you.

14 scythe mastery
Kurzick Title Track rank 7
Asura Title Track rank 10

[Victorious Sweep] critical 60 ar foe [115] [86+29] damage
[Victorious sweep] ctitical 60 ar foe while enchanted with [Aura of holy might] [163] damage

Auto-attack critical 60 ar foe [86] damage
Auto-attack critical 60 ar foe hexed with [Asuran Scan] [150] damage
Auto-attack critical 60 ar foe hexed with [Asuran Scan] while enchanted with [Aura of Holy Might] [234] damage

That's 35 additional points of damage auto attack vs [victorious sweep] with [asuran scan] and a 71 point difference with [Asuran Scan]+[Aura of Holy Might].

I dunno about you but 71 points of damage is pretty substantial. This is just auto-attacking. The skills in the Wounding strike build posted earlier recharge quickly allowing for a two attack spike with deep wound possible every 4 seconds. If you get lucky you could possibly hit a foe for 498 damage and applied a deep wound.

Dommar · Feb 17, 2009, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Why Dark Fury if you play a no-adrenaline build???

Painbringer · Feb 18, 2009, 06:46 PM // 18:46

PVE If i was leaving the dervish skills for warrior then

[thrill of victory] [soldiers strike] [wild blow] atleast you can add points to it.

Also for PVE get a friend to slap [Great Dwarf Weapon] to open a serious can of "A" wooping

Lusciious · Feb 18, 2009, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Yes, I know Celestial Beaver wrote a Dervish guide, and while it is indeed quite a good guide, I don't think many newer players are paying it much heed, mainly due to the fact that it's a guide and most 12-year olds think they are too good for guides.

So here's the build. You don't need self-heals or nancy-boy defense measures. You're a frontline melee, kill shit.

[avatar of melandru][asuran scan][aura of holy might][Eternal Aura][attacker's insight][draw conditions][wearying strike][mystic sweep]

Don't take a rez, use a midliner for that. Draw conditions because the avatar's effects should be abused. Go blow stuff up. Feel free to criticize.

usually i have strong heros so whenever i cast form -> [aura of holy might] -> [eternal aura] -> [heart of fury] = enemies dead. i dont get much action so ive decided to switch to spammable DW from [Wounding Strike] or high damage + enchant removal from [reaper's sweep] which worked out great for me. besides i don't like the 25 energy cost just to cast AoM.

i'd swap asuran scan for [lyssa's assault] cause with [attacker's insight] you'd get back 10-12 energy depending on the level of your scythe mastery.

Darkside · Feb 18, 2009, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

i'd swap asuran scan for [lyssa's assault] cause with [attacker's insight] you'd get back 10-12 energy depending on the level of your scythe mastery.

Or you could use a good skill...

Seriously [Lyssa's Assault] is bad...the energy gain is minimal and the damage isn't all that great. Not to mention it's got a pretty long recharge so its not very spamable.

iVendetta · Feb 19, 2009, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

Seriously [Lyssa's Assault] is bad...the energy gain is minimal and the damage isn't all that great. Not to mention it's got a pretty long recharge so its not very spamable.

[Lyssa's Aura]

Lusciious · Feb 19, 2009, 02:40 PM // 14:40

@darkside, well .. [lyssa's assault] have served me well in PvP with energy management. i've played a tank derv in AB with 300+ HP (yes i know, its a self made build but its good) and yet i didn't die nor did i have any energy problems because of [lyssa's assault].

@vendetta, dervs aren't casters so i don't see why you need 6-8 energy regen.

Abedeus · Feb 19, 2009, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

@darkside, well .. [lyssa's assault] have served me well in PvP with energy management. i've played a tank derv in AB with 300+ HP

Stopped reading there. Would've stopped after "tank" but I knew I'd lol harder.

Do not run tanks in PvP, dervish is one of the most OP melee classes in the game, abuse it.

300 hp will kill you so fast you won't get to say "wut". 500 with a dervish is absolute minimum.

Lusciious · Feb 19, 2009, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Stopped reading there. Would've stopped after "tank" but I knew I'd lol harder.

Do not run tanks in PvP, dervish is one of the most OP melee classes in the game, abuse it.

300 hp will kill you so fast you won't get to say "wut". 500 with a dervish is absolute minimum.

why does nobody like tanks in PvP ? i said for AB. you don't get smart people in AB who learns to cap so you learn to solo cap. and by my definition of tank, i mean a +12 hp regen and 100+ armor from windwalkers insignia and conviction (if i'm not wrong, they stack). i do still have an elite slot ..

theres 3 melee classes in GW .. sins , warriors and dervs .. all of them are overpowered in their own way ..

GL killing a 300+hp with 100 over armor and a 12 hp regen without any enchant removal / interupt while casting skills

Damian979 · Feb 19, 2009, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

why does nobody like tanks in PvP ? i said for AB. you don't get smart people in AB who learns to cap so you learn to solo cap. and by my definition of tank, i mean a +12 hp regen and 100+ armor from windwalkers insignia and conviction (if i'm not wrong, they stack). i do still have an elite slot ..

theres 3 melee classes in GW .. sins , warriors and dervs .. all of them are overpowered in their own way ..

GL killing a 300+hp with 100 over armor and a 12 hp regen without any enchant removal / interupt while casting skills

nono, nononono

armor insignias don't stack so at most you get +20 on each individual piece of armor until you get rended and die. Conviction gives you +24 armor, again until rended and death and so on. Hp regen caps at 10....

@OP Good build. Really, a bit harsh on energy but fun to use. Though I would have to classify using the elite slot to gain +100 health and immunity to conditions more under defenses as "nancy boy" as they might seem, rather than put it in the "killing shit" category.