Curse

High Voltage Killer · Jul 16, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Lately I have been reading the forums and playing PvE with other dervs and I have seemed to notice that no one uses Avatar of Grenth after it was buffed a while back...why is this? I run the following build: OgGikysMdBOgxctDK6JuBf1DCA And although it isnt uber damage like other Dervs seem to run, it does help to keep the party alive alot longer, and you can spam SY + Whirling (with Splinter from heros) + Chilling Victory to AoE the crap out of everything, in addition to 20 Lifet Stealing from AoG and no blocks against enchanted foes. And if you take a smite hero with Judges Insight and SoH, you pump as much damage as any spammer will. So the question is, why dont more people use it? Its a great elite in my opinion, just as good as the attack spammer dervs everyone seems to be stuck on, but with more support and a better ability to survive I would argue.

SuperCoha · Jul 16, 2009, 07:29 PM // 19:29

If you only bothered looking through the forum.

IronSheik · Jul 16, 2009, 07:54 PM // 19:54

People don't use it because you can't use AoHM, which is a majority of a dervs damage.
And any derv can spam SY with whirlwind....and you're a derv, you hit 3 targets anyway, is whirlwind needed?

And the only problem with blocking with enchants in PvE is afflicted monks with aegis, therefore making the other clause just about useless.

_Nihilist_ · Jul 16, 2009, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

People don't use it because you can't use AoHM, which is a majority of a dervs damage.

Why can't you use Aura of Holy Might with Avatar of Grenth? You'd be using Eternal Aura to maintain AoG, but that's only 1 out of the possible 3 PvE skills you are allowed to take.

Killamus · Jul 16, 2009, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Why can't you use Aura of Holy Might with Avatar of Grenth? You'd be using Eternal Aura to maintain AoG, but that's only 1 out of the possible 3 PvE skills you are allowed to take.

I think he's talking about holy damage, which does add a bit (iirc, it's level-independent, so it does a lot more against high-level foes), but in my opinion, a vampiric scythe and conjure frost more then makes up for it.

IronSheik · Jul 16, 2009, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Forgot to state I meant AoHM nullifies the Cold part of it, therefore conjure would be useless, and the cold part in general, cold also makes you suck even more against rangers.

And AoHM adds way more than a conjure, you can also use a vampiric with it.

_Nihilist_ · Jul 16, 2009, 09:19 PM // 21:19

I'd rather have the Holy from AoHM than the Cold from AoG to be honest. AoG is nice for the lifesteal, but it's not worth investing in Water Magic for Conjure Frost, imho.

reaper with no name · Jul 17, 2009, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Voltage Killer

Lately I have been reading the forums and playing PvE with other dervs and I have seemed to notice that no one uses Avatar of Grenth after it was buffed a while back...why is this? I run the following build: OgGikysMdBOgxctDK6JuBf1DCA And although it isnt uber damage like other Dervs seem to run, it does help to keep the party alive alot longer, and you can spam SY + Whirling (with Splinter from heros) + Chilling Victory to AoE the crap out of everything, in addition to 20 Lifet Stealing from AoG and no blocks against enchanted foes. And if you take a smite hero with Judges Insight and SoH, you pump as much damage as any spammer will. So the question is, why dont more people use it? Its a great elite in my opinion, just as good as the attack spammer dervs everyone seems to be stuck on, but with more support and a better ability to survive I would argue.

If you're using an avatar, you need Eternal Aura to maintain it. If you take Eternal Aura, that's one of your 3 PvE only skills gone. If you're using AoHM and SY! as well, then you can't use Asuran Scan. So, no, An AoG Derv does not deal as much damage as the typical WS or attack-spamming dervish.

What do you mean "whirling"? Whirlwind Attack? If so, that's another PvE only skill gone, so bye bye AoHM. And you'd have to be crazy not to use AoHM.

GourangaPizza · Jul 17, 2009, 07:47 PM // 19:47

No good DW skill to mesh with it, no improvement on survivability, has surplus offense but unnecessary. Conclusion: worthless avatar to be maintained with eternal aura.

the slasher · Jul 17, 2009, 10:24 PM // 22:24

my main is a derv, and i can say: avatar of grenth is a great elite to throw away... i mean, what does it give you that vatar of balthazar doesnt? +40 armor is way better than some life steal... avatar of lyssa, heals you on attack skills (if you have a decent build, you should spam them), condition and hex removal(or just condition, nt sure)

or even an offensive elite, like wounding strike... no, its, true, you dont get a self heal for that, but you kill stuff much faster, which will mean your monks wont have to heal so much damage, which will increase survivability... sometimes a gd offense is your best defense... which is why i use wounding strike

IronSheik · Jul 17, 2009, 10:49 PM // 22:49

All avatars are useless to me outside of few select areas, (Melandru for SoO) (Dwayna's for extremely hex heavy areas, where you're better running a support derv)

Wound Strike, Reaper's Sweep, and Zealous vow are only Derv elites I use nowadays. I have a GWAMM derv so I had time to use everything.

Killamus · Jul 17, 2009, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by the slasher

or even an offensive elite, like wounding strike... no, its, true, you dont get a self heal for that, but you kill stuff much faster, which will mean your monks wont have to heal so much damage, which will increase survivability... sometimes a gd offense is your best defense... which is why i use wounding strike

What does wounding strike give you? Deep wound? Last I checked, it doesn't add any additional damage, just DW and bleeding. Both of which are easily applied with other skills. If anything, you should use reaper's sweep, at least that does + damage.

I never understood the love of WS, it's the spam of two easily obtained, (And in the case of bleeding) rather useless conditions. If you want deep wound, use "Finish Him!" instead. Which should be on all physical bars anyways.

IronSheik · Jul 17, 2009, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

If you want deep wound, use "Finish Him!" instead. Which should be on all physical bars anyways.

Most physicals can't spam a 10 energy shout, and there are better things for most melees in terms of PvE.

Warriors have tons of DW skills, FH=Moot

Sins can DW and have better PvE Slots, AoHM, Crit Agility, Asuran, SY

Dervs usually don't have energy for FH, and again, better PvE slots, AoHM, Asuran, SY

Jaigoda · Jul 17, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Deep Wound is +100 damage. Last time I heard, that was better than Reaper's which recharges 2.5 times slower. This means Reaper's won't DW every monster, meaning less +100's. Because if it takes you longer than 5 seconds to kill something, you need to rethink your build.

Oh, and FH takes 15 seconds to recharge, and there are far better PvE skills for a physical.

Axel Zinfandel · Jul 17, 2009, 11:50 PM // 23:50

AoHM provides a crapload more damage then conjures, and holy damage is amazing.

AoG is a very underrated avatar, and probably the best avatar for general use.

going /Rt for Nightmare weapon is good fun too

Also, people underestimate +20 damage because Lyssa adds WAY more. People also forget that the damage on Lyssa's is conditional, and Grenth's is also life STEALING, healing you as well.

but until WS is nerfed somehow, every other elite for dervs won't see the light of day :/

_Nihilist_ · Jul 18, 2009, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

...until WS is nerfed somehow, every other elite for dervs won't see the light of day :/

Sad, but true (in the case of Attack skill Elites), though I still favor Reaper's Sweep for the +dmg and the utility. Not that WS is a sub-par Elite (it clearly isn't), I just prefer that my attacks deal bonus damage whenever possible.

Avatars still get play in certain Zones (Dwayna > Hexes, Melandru > Conditions, etc.)

GourangaPizza · Jul 18, 2009, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Also, people underestimate +20 damage because Lyssa adds WAY more. People also forget that the damage on Lyssa's is conditional, and Grenth's is also life STEALING, healing you as well.

Lyssa is unreliable in HM when the mobs have 50% faster attacking speed and casting speed. For general use, Wounding Strike / Reaper Sweep is better since you can free up two slots occupied by eternal aura and avatar for better skills like air of superiority.

AtomicMew · Jul 19, 2009, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Wounding strike is seriously overrated in PvE. Wearying strike, which gives +~26 damage on top of DW. Just use Grenth + wearying strike. The weakness condition should be removed almost immediately by heroes. Condition removal on heroes are extremely efficient (FF) or can even be turned into a bonus (RC, plague sending).

Even if weakness did stick, it's really not that bad at all, even on a derv, since most of your damage comes from armor ignoring sources.

Drizzitdude · Jul 19, 2009, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Let me finish the title of this thread. Avatar of Grenth IS BAD.