Curse

Perfected Shadow · Jul 15, 2009, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Think of it this way, instead of recasting that 5 or 10 energy enchant, it could last more than twice as long which means you are saving more than 5 or 10 energy. Furthermore, I said that the energy/health gain should occur when enchantments are cast on the dervish (what I meant was straight after an enchantment is cast on you, you get the mysticism trigger), so you get your energy return instantly.

But yeah the only concern would be overpoweredness maybe, which tbh I don't really care about.

GourangaPizza · Jul 15, 2009, 12:41 PM // 12:41

^ Sorry but I think you fail to see why dervish are a joke in pvp and inferior in pve. They just play out like an elementalist except they are more dependent on enchantments than an ele would which is extremely bad for a frontline physical profession. Mysticism is fine as it is and is definitely much better than some other professions' primary attributes inherent effects. I don't know why people are jabbing their fingers at it being the culprit when in reality most of the dervish enchantments are poorly thought out and barely compliment well with mysticism. A better suggestion to improve dervish would be to shorten recharge of skills if enchantments are removed prematurely for a start.

Drizzitdude · Jul 19, 2009, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Uh i am pretty sure a derv has 70 Armor. And I think in your calculation you put 60 (looks at it upside down)

SuperCoha · Jul 20, 2009, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drizzitdude

Uh i am pretty sure a derv has 70 Armor. And I think in your calculation you put 60 (looks at it upside down)

He was doing damage calculations. Armor doesn't have anything to do with damage afaik. The targets had 60AL, not the dervish.

Servant of Kali · Jul 23, 2009, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Stop bashing Dervishes. In PvE, overall performance of a Dervish can be much much better than Assassin. I'm not talking about theory here, I am not talking about statistical 5% higher dmg Assassin does or whoever. I am talking about how well I've performed with Dervish *in practice* compared to others and compared to what I've seen. I've rampaged through Nightfall in starter armor and almost finished the game like that (near the end I bought armor for the fun of it). With my near immortality with correct skills, damage was still higher than whatever warriors and assassin's in those days had.

When you PvP with Dervish, the playstyle and skills and attributes are very different. But in PvE, Mysticism can be great. So what if there's some enchantment removal in some areas? In 99,9% areas it won't matter a bit *if* you know how to play (if you play Mesmer or Monk, you should not have a problem reacting fast and being aware of what's happening on the field of battle).

Let's also not forget that Dervish FoW, IMO, is one of the best armors in the game. I feel so powerful running around with Dervish in that beastly armor

Yes, fun is important. Don't forget why you play the game in the first place.

Now to problems of Dervish - the main problem with Dervish is not the performance. The main problem with Dervish is that, while it has huge amount of fun and interesting and different skills, the skills are so poorly balanced that these days most of them are just crap (granted, some are pure gimmick). That, and the fact that Dervish has less skills because it's 3rd campaign profession.

reaper with no name · Jul 23, 2009, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Bashing them? Why would I bash my own profession? I'm telling it like it is.

Enchantment removal is rare in PvE. But it's irrelevant.

Near immortality? A dervish is not nearly as "immortal" as a scythe sin or scythe warrior (critical agility, critical defenses, Lion's Comfort, and base 80-100 armor say hi).

What do you mean "in practice"? Is the dervish a special exception to the rules of damage calculation? Does he get a special +10 bonus to damage that we don't know about?

The problem with the dervish is that other people use his stuff better than he does. I don't know what the damage output of a sword and board warrior is, but I do know the damage output of a scythe warrior, and it's superior to a dervish. Same with sins.

"But wait, dervishes have earth and wind prayers!"

So does any /D.

"But dervishes have a free secondary they can use for anything they want!"

Yes, and it's the only thing non-avatar builds have going for them. Too bad the advantages tend to be fairly minor. Oh, look, you can take a hard rez or antidote signet. Whoopee. And there aren't nearly as many options as one might think. Most Elementalist, Mesmer, and Necromancer skills are useless to you unless you're playing some kind of pure caster build (in which case, you're usually better off being an ele or whatnot, defeating the whole purpose of doing so), because you can't cast spells and attack at the same time. You can't go /W or /A and call it "good" because the W/D and A/D will still make you completely redundant. Dervishes just don't have enough synergy with other professions to make their secondaries a big deal.

"But I look cool/have fun!"

Good. Having fun is by far the most important part of the game (everything else is a means to that end). It's why I play my dervish. But none of that has any bearing on how GOOD he is. Dervishes are subpar scythe-wielders that are squishier than other melee classes, but have just enough options so that you can make yourself not be completely redundant if you try. However, the fact that it's so hard to make non-redundant dervish builds is the very thing that proves they're underpowered. Doesn't mean you shouldn't play and enjoy them, though.

IronSheik · Jul 23, 2009, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Only thing dervs have going for them is "SY!"

Overall performance of a derv DPS is outperformed by Warrior or Sin...Don't know about ranger, doubt it.

Cuilan · Jul 24, 2009, 12:31 AM // 00:31

I play hard mode whenever possible and scythe sins can't handle casters. Assassin can do more damage than a dervish, but you sacrifice utility and survivability. Once you fix that, the dps goes shooting down pretty quickly.

Malician · Jul 24, 2009, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I play hard mode whenever possible and scythe sins can't handle casters. Assassin can do more damage than a dervish, but you sacrifice utility and survivability. Once you fix that, the dps goes shooting down pretty quickly.

This is because you have HB monks healing you with no prot. Prot spirit, spirit bond, and whatever nice stuff the party has (weakness, blind, knockdown, aegis) and you'll barely be taking damage.

reaper with no name · Jul 25, 2009, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Only thing dervs have going for them is "SY!"

Overall performance of a derv DPS is outperformed by Warrior or Sin...Don't know about ranger, doubt it.

Yeah, but give a W/D a zealous scythe, and he'll spam that and whatever else you give him to kingdom come. No WE required. That's why I switched from D/W to D/P.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I play hard mode whenever possible and scythe sins can't handle casters. Assassin can do more damage than a dervish, but you sacrifice utility and survivability. Once you fix that, the dps goes shooting down pretty quickly.

Critical Agility and Critical Defenses say hi. Scythe sins are significantly tougher than dervs.

Drizzitdude · Jul 29, 2009, 02:52 AM // 02:52

I just stick with my Mysticism+Scythe mastery dervish. Lets see the other classes copy that. (heart of fury+Faithful intervention ftw)