Curse

king_trouble · Jul 07, 2009, 11:10 PM // 23:10

If your looking at damage, then when you get to the higher end areas crits don't make as much of a difference. So really the I would prefer a D/any over a A/D in pve once you get to the higher end areas. When it comes to pvp, sins can't match the power of the derv

reaper with no name · Jul 08, 2009, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celtus

A) i dont use onslaught much. but if you think its a joke..tell that to the 'meta' pvp community that was obsessed with primal rage for months, onslaught is PR without the 'take double damage' part, and it still lets you have a stance....

B) though i have done everything in pve with my dervish, i am almost entirely a pvper, ive earned well over 4 million balthazar faction, 2500 glad pts, varying amounts of kurzick/lux rep and fame since NF release JUST with my dervish, with my own builds. (and i quit the game twice in that time, for a few months each..)

If anything i feel overpowered playing my dervish.

Im not trying to be condescending to the rest of the dervishes on here. But i mean come on, every thread in here is turning into a sob story about how warriors rangers and assassins can do certain things better than a dervish. Imho, post these things on those respective profession forums...instead of further discouraging dervish players from learning their profession.

All i want to say is good luck to all, and if a profession is fun for you, stick with it and explore your playing style and you'll find something that works for you.

That's because most people make a dervish expecting it to be a great scythe wielder, which it isn't. The dervish is gimmick melee, and that's what it's great at. You want condition immunity? Hex removal? DW + SY! spam? Scythery + healing/rezzing people? Want to knock Shiro out of Battle Scars and deal 40% more damage to him (assuming you're not using conditions on him, which you shouldn't be anyway)? Want to be immune to knockdowns? Want to run really fast? Want to RoJ something as a melee character? Want to do an orders build? Want to farm? Want to be immune to spells?

THESE are the kinds of things the dervish is great at.

Celtus · Jul 08, 2009, 01:09 AM // 01:09

^ agreed. (except for the RoJ part, i dont think RoJ is good on any profession unless you have a huge snare.)

proper combination of gimmicks can be made into a very effective build.

_Nihilist_ · Jul 08, 2009, 02:26 AM // 02:26

RoJ Derv in FA/JQ says "Hi". Not so much anymore, as NPC's have been 'fixed' to realize that RoJ is AoE.

Chthon · Jul 08, 2009, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

Also, your math is off on the way that Critical Hits are determined. If you look on wiki at Critical Hit, there's a table that shows your critical hit percentage with Critical Strikes at 16 with Way of the Master and Critical Eye up - 55%. Basically, even though it says +%, it's still multiplicative.

As far as I know, no one has ever derived the critical hit chance formula (and the one posed on izzy's talk page is obviously incorrect once you start plugging numbers in). The tables posted on the wiki are all for lvl-20-vs-lvl-20 scenarios, so they aren't terribly useful for PvE beyond demonstrating that certain skills multiply instead of add.

Celtus · Jul 08, 2009, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

RoJ Derv in FA/JQ says "Hi". Not so much anymore, as NPC's have been 'fixed' to realize that RoJ is AoE.

well yea, NPCs get owned by RoJ, or used to. but theres plenty of things that npcs get owned by... and players getting owned by RoJ...unless theyre 90% snared or knocklocked or lag spiked or disconnected, theyd need to be braindead to be killed by an RoJ in pvp. which is why i said idont like it (in pvp)

Wish Swiftdeath · Jul 08, 2009, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Not to mention onslaught will get stripped and your dervish will be running around with no IAS or IMS (aka useless).

Celtus · Jul 08, 2009, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

Not to mention onslaught will get stripped and your dervish will be running around with no IAS or IMS (aka useless).

Cover enchants, you heard of em? sure it can be stripped by any enchant strip and primal can only be removed by the 3 ish stance removals. But really theyre pretty balanced with each other now. Onslaught can be removed easier, has slightly longer recharge and slightly slower ias and primal has instant activation, but makes you take double damage (thus negating the warriors biggest advantage, their armor). And onslaught being an enchant is a GOOD thing for dervishes since so many of their skills have synergy with enchants.

Anyway, im not a huge fan of either skill but im just trying to point out that onslaught isnt terribad compared to similar skills..as some people suggest here.

The only way your onslaught will get stripped (in pvp) is if someone has 2+ enchant strips on their bar, OR rend enchantments, OR theres a couple players focus firing on you with enchant strips. Otherwise just put up a cover enchant and you should be fine...If youre running a derv build with only 1 or 2 enchants youre begging to be shut down with even the slightest amount of enchant removal.

Catchphrase · Jul 08, 2009, 05:02 PM // 17:02

You missed the whole point of why Onslaught is bad. It just do not have to last 10s+ for an IAS + IMS skill. The current Onslaught enforce the dervish to try to preserve it instead of self rending it to trigger off mysticism when situation calls. Enchantment cycling. Its duration should be ideally around 7s and recharge 12s at 10 wind prayers. The very reason why dervish sucks is because they can't fully utilise mysticism when most of their enchantments last unnecessarily long accompanied by longer recharge time to 'balance' it out.

Megas XLR · Jul 08, 2009, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Onslaught is bad because it's barely maintainable, an elite, and only has 25% IAS... not because of whatever you were trying to explain.

moriz · Jul 08, 2009, 10:12 PM // 22:12

and, it causes you to stop for 1 second (.25s cast, .75s aftercast) every 20 seconds.

Catchphrase · Jul 09, 2009, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megas XLR

Onslaught is bad because it's barely maintainable, an elite, and only has 25% IAS... not because of whatever you were trying to explain.

I disagree, having it maintainable is going see it abused by other professions much better than a dervish could. 25% IAS is underpowered for an elite if we are talking about the pve but sufficient in pvp with mystic sweep/eremite attack seeing common use and I doubt anet will split it into two versions.

IronSheik · Jul 09, 2009, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catchphrase

I disagree, having it maintainable is going see it abused by other professions much better than a dervish could. 25% IAS is underpowered for an elite if we are talking about the pve but sufficient in pvp with mystic sweep/eremite attack seeing common use and I doubt anet will split it into two versions.

Even if it was maintainable at 12, 11, or 10, it's in a completely useless attribute line and there are just better alternatives for other classes.

Celtus · Jul 09, 2009, 06:15 AM // 06:15

IT IS maintainable at 12. you just use a 20% enchant mod.......

but yea, wind prayers is extremely gimp as an attribute line. 7 increase movement speed skills, 4 cripples (when dervs already have 3 other crips, 1 earth, 2 scythe) out of only about 24 total skills. so the attribute is really redundant and has too many skills that have the same exact effect. a few standout skills in wind prayers, but as a whole anet needs to give it some love.

earth prayers on the other hand is extremely strong, one of the best attribs overall in the game imo.

should be a skill balance update this week or soon, hope wind gets some love sooner or later, but if anything they're just as likely to nerf it because of all the eles abusing dwaynas touch and featherfoot grace..

side note: this thread has been completely de-railed sorry

Catchphrase · Jul 09, 2009, 07:31 AM // 07:31

That's the whole point, nobody is going gimp themselves to invest 12 wind prayers to have it maintainable when your recharge is long. You are just going to focus on covering it from being strip rather than something else important. And if the 'solution' to make it viable is to make it maintainable at lower wind prayers, other professions will more likely to use it and dervish are more gutted than ever. Earth prayers isn't that strong; at 8 you will be getting the best of what it has to offer unless you are using VoS.

Bloody Dominator · Jul 10, 2009, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catchphrase

That's the whole point, nobody is going gimp themselves to invest 12 wind prayers to have it maintainable when your recharge is long.

I've got 12 in wind for that (actually 11 +1)

Combined with attackers insight and chilling vicory, it seems to do fine on my bar. I like it

GourangaPizza · Jul 10, 2009, 03:53 PM // 15:53

I think the point he/she is trying to drive at is that our current skill sets are forcing us to play like an elementalist would; [X Attunement -> AoR -> spell -> spell] [HoF -> Attacker's Insight -> AoHM -> attack -> attack].

boarderx · Jul 14, 2009, 08:42 PM // 20:42

after reading a bunch of stuff i think this should be the point

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloody Dominator

it seems to do fine on my bar. I like it

play whats fun for you, in the end the scythe wielders are close enough i couldnt care less which one statistically hits harder. IMO it's about the ppl you play with, kick back have a beer, laugh it up and kill some sh!t.

Perfected Shadow · Jul 15, 2009, 04:58 AM // 04:58

How about a mysticism buff? +10% enchant duration (only dervish enchantments) per point in mysticism? Also maybe make the energy and health gain trigger when an enchantment is cast on the dervish instead of when it ends.

Fire away with 'broken' in pvp, etc, etc. Just throwing ideas.

Celtus · Jul 15, 2009, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow

How about a mysticism buff? +10% enchant duration (only dervish enchantments) per point in mysticism? Also maybe make the energy and health gain trigger when an enchantment is cast on the dervish instead of when it ends.

while i think itd be cool and maybe appropriate for mysticism to get some love. i think such an enchant increase would be working against the very energy management that mysticism provides you, by prolonging enchants endings..and thus prolonging your energy return.

plus having 160% to some enchants would be insane if you think about it...