Curse

Luminarus · Dec 29, 2008, 08:25 AM // 08:25

I was just spouting numbers from the top of my head. I never really payed attention to what the exact numbers were, but they were just to show a point.

bungusmaximus · Dec 29, 2008, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Dervishes can take conjures for bigger dommage, assas and warriors can't. Warriors and assas have better IAS. Don't know about the forms, Wounding Strike rocks too much, warriors can't take that because of warrior's endurance. Assassins have sh!tty armor, and while scythes rock on them, I don' t see how they can be better then death blossom spam, or even shattering assault.

Darkside · Dec 29, 2008, 08:36 AM // 08:36

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Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

I don' t see how they can be better then death blossom spam, or even shattering assault.

Then I guess you need glasses...

Arkantos · Dec 29, 2008, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Dervishes can take conjures for bigger dommage, assas and warriors can't. Warriors and assas have better IAS. Don't know about the forms, Wounding Strike rocks too much, warriors can't take that because of warrior's endurance. Assassins have sh!tty armor, and while scythes rock on them, I don' t see how they can be better then death blossom spam, or even shattering assault.

1) Warriors and assassins can effectively run conjure.
2) A dervish with an avatar has eternal aura, which would make HoF maintainable. Critical agility is maintainable, but if you don't manage to get a crit for whatever reason, you have to wait for the recharge. Both can be better depending on the situation. Although I do agree warriors have the best IAS.
3) Warrior's can take wounding strike.
4) Assassin's have the same armor as dervishes. With critical agility, they can have 1 less armor than a warrior with a shield.

bungusmaximus · Dec 29, 2008, 08:51 AM // 08:51

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Originally Posted by Arkantos

1) Warriors and assassins can effectively run conjure.

Sure, but that would mean they drop the scythe.

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Originally Posted by Arkantos

2) A dervish with an avatar has eternal aura, which would make HoF maintainable. Critical agility is maintainable, but if you don't manage to get a crit for whatever reason, you have to wait for the recharge. Both can be better depending on the situation. Although I do agree warriors have the best IAS.

Didn't really take pve skills into calculation, since I rarely use them. I don' t even know what most of them exactly do, shame on me :P.

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Originally Posted by Arkantos

3) Warrior's can take wounding strike.

True, but their energy regen ****s it up.

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Originally Posted by Arkantos

4) Assassin's have the same armor as dervishes. With critical agility, they can have 1 less armor than a warrior with a shield.

This might be useful when I wanna do HM with my sin some day.

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Originally Posted by Darkside

Then I guess you need glasses...

Not in my teams, because I use barbs and mark of pain, but that's a bit beside the point.

-Lotus- · Dec 29, 2008, 10:19 AM // 10:19

no one can run conjures and AoHM at the same time and AoHM adds more damage so the whole conjusre argument can go out the window.

Darkside · Dec 29, 2008, 11:08 AM // 11:08

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Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Not in my teams, because I use barbs and mark of pain, but that's a bit beside the point.

...it wasn't besides the point it was completely irrelevant to this discussion. Not to mention the fact that your not making any sense at all.

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I don' t even know what most of them exactly do, shame on me :P.

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This might be useful when I wanna do HM with my sin some day.

You might wanna know what you're actually talking about before you post randomly in a topic offering bad advice.

bungusmaximus · Dec 29, 2008, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Meh, it's just been a while since I played my derv, all those options, dazzle....me...must...have...coffee....

Forgotton200 · Dec 29, 2008, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Scythe Assassin > Scythe Dervish

Scythe Warrior > Scythe Dervish

DPS: Assassin, Warrior > Dervish

Utility: Warrior, Assassin > Dervish

[rend enchantment] > Dervish

This is what it seems like, I hope I'm wrong though. Either way, I'll still continue my derv since izzy likes to make unexpected skill updates and I don't think derv can get any worse than it is now anyway.

Abedeus · Dec 29, 2008, 12:45 PM // 12:45

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Scythe Warrior > Scythe Dervish

Too bad with Scythe Warrior, 4 times you do WS and you have 0 energy. And that's if you don't attack or cast any other spell.

Scythe Dervish also can use conjures, has access to secondary professions and has better e-management. So he can literally crap with Wounding Strike -> Chilling Sweep all day long.

MegaVolti · Dec 29, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Dervishes can take conjures for bigger dommage, assas and warriors can't. Warriors and assas have better IAS. Don't know about the forms, Wounding Strike rocks too much, warriors can't take that because of warrior's endurance. Assassins have sh!tty armor, and while scythes rock on them, I don' t see how they can be better then death blossom spam, or even shattering assault.

Dervishes can't bring conjures because they have to get [[aura of holy might].
Yes, Assassins IAS rocks.
Assassins can take [[Wounding Strike] and spam it even better then Dervishes.
Assassins have exactly the same armor as Dervishes, nothing shitty about it. In fact they usually have even better armor since [[Critical Agility] gives them a +25 boost for which a Dervish would have to bring another skill.

Burst Cancel · Dec 29, 2008, 01:46 PM // 13:46

W/D has to choose between Warrior's Endurance to spam attack skills, or Wounding Strike for DW and perpetual lack of energy.

A/D doesn't get SY! or Wild Blow. Under cons, Critical Agility is useless, because everyone takes Drunken Master, and the armor bonus won't stack with SY! D/* has higher base armor and health than D/A. Nevermind that A/* should be playing MBDS anyway.

The SY! "aggro magnet" argument is curious; I often run multiple frontliners with SY!, so everyone is covered anyway. Even if that weren't the case, keeping a single target up under any kind of concentrated fire is a trivial exercise for any monk that's even marginally competent.

Joseph Spiritmaster · Dec 29, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Well while everyone says why or why not dervs are needed. I will say:

If you want to play your dervish, and title him or something, Play him.
If you are trying to farm and make money, then Ele's yea.

But, if you want to title on him, and stuff, and you think its fun to play with dervish's (i personally like em) then play it. If you want to play the game, play it with something fun, not something you dont want to play with.

joshuarodger · Dec 29, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

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Originally Posted by The Meth

Well, I dunno about loaded, at most they have 1 or 2 bad hexes, but for the few areas that actually do overload you with hexes and conditions [spotless mind] and [spotless soul] say hi!

95% of the time enemies are going to be stupid and cast their anti melee hexes on the monks or minions or something retarded anyway.

you're right they have one or 2 bad hexes. but when was the last time you went to fow? at one point you have a group of 8 or so shadow beasts with [[spiteful sp] and [[mark of pa] along with a few shadow mesmers with [[empathy], all of which are armor ignoring. if you have a scythe sin or scythe warrior in there you're gonna get raped. then you get the skeletal groups that are chock full of [[blurred] and [[deep freeze], which are AoE, along with blind and deep wound. the conditions aren't much of a problem if you have decent monks but even 2 monks with [[spotless m] won't be able to take care of 2-3 physicals without their own hex control, which they can't have if they're going /D. then you get to the burning forest where the skales can decimate your team through their degen hexes alone. there's no way a team made up of scythe sins/wars would be able to cope with that if they're running the suggested bars in this thread.

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Originally Posted by The Meth

Well, for a WE warrior they are going to be keeping up SY. If the monks in the group can't keep a group with SY alive they fail at rolling their head on the keyboard.

already hit that above, really.

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Originally Posted by The Meth

Granted a Scythe Sin doesn't support the party at all, but they can just walk in (or shadowstep in) behind the #1 melee in the party and instarape casters. The speed at which a scythe sin can take down enemies is just incredible, shadowstep to them and in 5 seconds any enemy that was in your scythe's AoE range is dead. Enemies in PvE aren't smart enough to prevent that.

agreed. one scythe sin in the group is great but not a team of them.

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Originally Posted by The Meth

Unfortunately, orders doesn't boost damage on your dervish because they are using AoHM. Might as well bring a BiP if you want to make a character just for the purpose of fueling others.

i realize that AoHM negates the orders but orders does fuel the dervs and makes it unnecessary to have to stop and cast AoHM in midfight. orders isn't as powerful as AoHM (i don't think, never really tested though), especially against undead, but it does make stuff go boom faster when AoHM is down and there is usually a warrior and imbagon in our team groups anyway which do benefit greatly from the orders.

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Originally Posted by Tyla

To be honest, the only conditions that hurt that much are weakness, blind and daze. Deep wound only chips in when you're taking some heavy pressure, but if the area is that full of conditions I'd probably just chip into RC. If it's that bad I'd pop in Assassins' Remedy too.

With hexes, I guess there's an agreement there, although there would have to be stupid hexes there. I'm talking Gloom Cave hexes here.

you're right other than blind and weakness, conditions are never really much of an issue for physicals in pve, but when you stack hexes on top of conditions, it adds more pressure to your monks. and when you have 5-10 enemies spamming multiple hexes on your team, it becomes difficult for your monks to keep up even when running [[divert hex] or something like that due to energy issues.

again, i'll say for general PvE, scythe sins/wars will out dps dervs but for elite areas and hex/condition heavy areas, dervs do more than just pump out damage. they relieve so much pressure from their monks, it's ridiculous. that's why, with 2 dwayna dervs in our FoW group, we only need one monk and an orders necro with [[empathic], and [[remove hex] to do it.

Tyla · Dec 29, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

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Originally Posted by joshuarodger

you're right other than blind and weakness, conditions are never really much of an issue for physicals in pve, but when you stack hexes on top of conditions, it adds more pressure to your monks. and when you have 5-10 enemies spamming multiple hexes on your team, it becomes difficult for your monks to keep up even when running [[divert hex] or something like that due to energy issues.

Foul Feast and/or RC, to be honest. With hexes, Peace and Harmony would come on top - I just wish it could actually be used as a Smiting bar elite so you could run Strength of Honour on your bar with it too. That is, as long as you could get enemies to focus hexes on an Earth Shaker - keep that guy clean of hexes and knocklock the problem makers.

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again, i'll say for general PvE, scythe sins/wars will out dps dervs but for elite areas and hex/condition heavy areas, dervs do more than just pump out damage. they relieve so much pressure from their monks, it's ridiculous. that's why, with 2 dwayna dervs in our FoW group, we only need one monk and an orders necro with [[empathic], and [[remove hex] to do it.

Well I guess it all just comes down to bar capabilities - if you have 5 physicals in a hex heavy area where every now and then you've not got everything grouping up, using a Dwayna Derv will pretty much be your main defense against it considering the amount of hate. Otherwise, I'd rather be spamming Power Attack, Eremites' and so on.

reaper cryz · Dec 31, 2008, 11:39 PM // 23:39

my derv hits 200-400 every single hit, making it one of the best spikers. my sin and warrior cant. and dervs are one of the best runners out there. and when it comes to tanking (only tanking with no damage output), dervs do it better than warriors due to damage reduction to 0 and self healing
and even if we hypothetically say that sins and warriors are better, i havent even SEEN a single scythe sin/warrior in pve the past 2 years since the release of nightfall and intro of scythes. so does it REALLY matter if sins and warriors could do better if they dont "do" at all in the first place?

joshuarodger · Jan 01, 2009, 12:18 AM // 00:18

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