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Aug 27, 2009, 03:53 PM // 15:53
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#1 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2008
Guild: House of Myrthe (HoMe)
Profession: W/
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My PvE Grenth dervish
I think this is the best possible dervish build for hero-henching, so I thought I'd share it with y'all:
D/W, 12+2+1 mysticism, 12+1 scythe mastery Avatar of Grenth Heart of fury Eternal aura "For great justice!" Distracting blow Victorious sweep "Save yourselves!" Pain inverter The idea is that avatar of grenth has the potential to be by far the deadliest of the elite forms, and you want to maximize your hits with it in order to take advantage of the 20 life-stealing per hit. That happens to be exactly what you want to do with a "Save yourselves!" warrior too, so why not marry the two and make a versatile hero-hench dervish? With this build, I've been able to hero-hench everything I've tried in HM. That's more than I can say for 99% of the PvE builds out there. My regular sequence is 1-4-5-2-3, then 5 and 6 as necessary, and you can usually squeeze in another heart of fury before having to recycle. That means you're under IAS most of the time. You definitely need a zealous scythe because skills 1-3 use a fair bit of energy. Distracting blow is a key skill on this bar because you get credit for hitting each affected foe--and that adds up to a lot of life-stealing and adrenaline. Don't be ashamed to use it and don't worry about the minimal damage. This is a life-stealing build, not a damage-dealing build. The interrupts that you get with distracting blow are an added bonus. I think you want 15 mysticism because it's a handy break point, and it's worth the hp loss caused by the major rune. If you feel you don't need SY (but then good luck hero-henching without it), obviously you can take off FGJ too, and throw on two of your favorite scythe attacks instead. If you're a PI-hater (but good luck hero-henching without it), throw on your favorite PvE-only skill instead. In any case, don't bother with earth skills like conviction; you're getting so much hp influx with life-stealing that it's just a waste of attribute points and bar space. Ordinary Sabway heroes work fine with this build, but make sure that you have splinter weapon in there somewhere. Nightmare weapon is deadly too. You need condition-removal, since long-term blind will debilitate this build. |
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Aug 27, 2009, 04:37 PM // 16:37
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#2 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Denver, Colorado
Guild: Reign of Judgment [RoJ]
Profession: Me/A
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Pack "Save Yourselves" or Pain Inverter, not both. The two just don't work well in conjunction with each other. SY! reduces the damage PI deals.
I think Victorious Sweep is unnecessary with the amount of life stealing you have. Eremites or Mystic might be better options. |
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Aug 27, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41
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#3 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Apr 2009
Guild: FaZ
Profession: D/
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You forgot AoHM. Your attack power won't be at all impressive without it. Drop Pain Inverter for it.
Also, AoL is the deadliest of the avatars offensively. AoG is a combination of offense and defense. |
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Aug 27, 2009, 08:27 PM // 20:27
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#4 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wolfenstein: Goldrush
Guild: Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom]
Profession: N/
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Sorry, your damage sucks compared to what it can be.
AoHM missing, Only one attack skill that does + damage, and isn't fast activating. As mad said, Pi+SY Counteract, and your energy isn't full constantly to spam it Sure, +20 lifesteal a hit, but do you constantly hit 2-3 enemies to take full advantage of it? No. Needs more asuran scan, and less avatars. |
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Aug 27, 2009, 08:49 PM // 20:49
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#5 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt Vernon, Ohio
Guild: Band of the Hawk
Profession: W/Mo
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AoL is the deadliest if you are not being blocked a lot, in which case AoG wins.
Sabway, I use it also. But I often leave the healer N/Rit at home and carry the two hench healers instead, who will do a great job if: Include para hero in battery mode. With the para hero battery, I also have plenty of energy! The Power is Yours (Elite makes a slightly noticeable difference), Zealous Anthem, Aria of Zeal, Energizing Finale (or Finale of Restoration depending); Blazing Finale, Glowing Signet, Death Pact Signet. Running Moti 14, 10 Leadership, 10 Spear, 9 Command, you can find room for Go For The Eyes, which with The Power is Yours gives you two trigger shouts. In some areas, a Smiting Monk will be a better idea. (Uh oh ... Livia is giving me a dirty look!) |
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Aug 28, 2009, 12:39 AM // 00:39
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#6 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2008
Guild: House of Myrthe (HoMe)
Profession: W/
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If you really feel you need AoHM, you can pack it instead of pain inverter. I personally think it's unnecessary. As I said, this build is based on life-stealing, not damage-dealing. If you're facing loads of undead, AoHM is worth considering because of the holy damage.
Victorious sweep is a MUCH better option than something like eremite's attack. At 13 scythe mastery, vic sweep gives you +27 damage automatically; eremite's attack gives you an absolute maximum of +30, and that's only if there are FOUR adjacent foes. And that's not even considering the health bonus that makes vic sweep famous. Whoever said SY! reduces the damage that PI deals has never used the two together and frankly doesn't know very much about GW. Lastly...guys...I didn't post this in order to get advice. I know the build works because I destroy everything with it. I posted it because it might help people. If you're going to use the build yourself, obviously you should amend it as you see fit. |
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Aug 28, 2009, 02:14 AM // 02:14
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#7 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wolfenstein: Goldrush
Guild: Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom]
Profession: N/
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Yeah but...why steal life when you can do damage.
Even at r1 kurzick, the damage bonus from AoHM is huge. And eremite's afaik takes 3 adjacent foes on a damage dealing derv with 14 SM. And PI is affected by the armor from SY, obviously you haven't been playing long and don't know much, if you use SY +PI on something, and it does 20 damage to everyone in your party, it's only going to take about 30 from each hit, minus you since you aren't affected And any build works in PvE, but there are builds that work Better Last edited by IronSheik; Aug 28, 2009 at 02:16 AM // 02:16.. |
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Aug 28, 2009, 06:58 AM // 06:58
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#8 | ||||
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South of heaven
Guild: S E X Y Shinigami[SEXY]
Profession: W/
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Quote:
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3 adjacent foes, and 3/4 activation. Quote:
So when you have an extra 100 armor, you also receive much less damage, say 85%. Which means Pain inverter does 85% LESS damage. Who doesn't know very much about GW again? Quote:
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Aug 28, 2009, 07:57 AM // 07:57
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#9 | |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lots of places~
Profession: D/
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Quote:
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Aug 28, 2009, 03:17 PM // 15:17
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#10 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2008
Guild: House of Myrthe (HoMe)
Profession: W/
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LOL, this is funny. I am destroying everything with this build and obviously none of you have tried it. Last night I hero-henched the last seven missions of Factions in HM. Took me two hours. Judging from the comments I'm getting, I really don't think many of you hero-hench very often. For example:
1. PI and SY! work fine together. The point of PI is to send back PACKETS of damage, not one big blast of damage (each packet is capped at 80, after all), and SY! doesn't cover minions or spirits. That means everytime an AoE boss sends out a bomb, he's going to get demolished by the packets sent back by all the minions and spirits, while your party is fine because of SY! Christ, some people really don't think before they write. They just repeat whatever nonsense their guildmates are spouting. 2. If you want AoHM, slot it in instead of PI. Stop whining about it. But it's really not going to help you hero-henching as much as you think it will. 3. Vic sweep gives you +27 damage automatically; with eremite's attack, you have to have three adjacent foes just to get the same damage--and no healing bonus. (Mystic sweep, for that matter, was a pretty unimpressive suggestion on a build with one enchantment.) |
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Aug 28, 2009, 03:25 PM // 15:25
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#11 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wolfenstein: Goldrush
Guild: Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom]
Profession: N/
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If you don't slot AoHm on a damage dealing dervish, you won't be dealing much damage.
At level 1 Kurzick, you will be dealing 43% more damage, that sucks tho rite? Since you just life steal everyfin Not everyone uses a minion master in their H/H team, and SY+PI are redundant most of the time. 1.75/1.18 Speed of victorious sweep vs. .75/Lower of Eremite's/Mystic. Sure, it's +29 guaranteed and every good derv knows how awesome super duper +health on attack is, but you can get your other attack skill off in half the time, doing a surefire +10, and possible +20/+30. You may be trying to help everyone giving them a good build, but as I said it can be better. Edit: For shits and giggles, I compared the two damages produced by your build and my build, yours may be able to upkeep SY a tad better, and has the energy heavy PI, but mine does a little bit more damage. And this is the one I've used to H/H everything, not something I made to beat you. Yours: http://img21.imageshack.us/i/gw057o.jpg/ Mine: http://img21.imageshack.us/i/ttest2.jpg/ Last edited by IronSheik; Aug 28, 2009 at 03:38 PM // 15:38.. |
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Aug 28, 2009, 03:41 PM // 15:41
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#12 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Denver, Colorado
Guild: Reign of Judgment [RoJ]
Profession: Me/A
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If you can't take legitimate criticism, posting on a public forum might not be the stage for you.
None of us have said that your build isn't good or that you aren't rolling your way through PvE. What we have said is that there is room for improvement. Save Yourselves and Pain Inverter work at odds with each other, trying to argue against that point is fruitless. Perhaps there is something in your arsenal that you could slot for Pain Inverter? Most have suggested AoHM, and I'd tend to agree, but other things like Technobabble or another attack skill could be just as good. Victorious Sweep is fine, but I don't think that with your constant lifesteal that you actually need the health gain. Eremite's and Mystic have faster activation times and higher damage potential. If you feel you're that fragile, by all means stick with Victorious. I'm not putting these suggestions out there to make you angry or to make fun of your build. I want you to just consider the options. Don't like them? Play the way you want, have fun with it, but just don't dismiss opinions with comments like "doesn't know much about GW." I've been around plenty, thanks. |
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Aug 28, 2009, 03:44 PM // 15:44
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#13 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Feb 2008
Guild: The Warrior Priests [WP]
Profession: Me/Rt
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Not trying to drag this off-topic but there was a thread a while back about Victorious vs. Eremite's and neither side clearly won. It's a good read though. Enjoy it if you like. EDIT: if you only read one post from the thread, it should be this.
As for the build itself, I don't think I'll understand why you wouldn't want to do big damage and big life stealing at the same time. SY is completely unnecessary. It's amazingly powerful and a great skill, but it's unnecessary. I would drop it and FGJ for AoHM and another attack like Wild Blow unless the area I'm going into is a complete HM hellhole (I would never touch SY for normal mode). Either way, as long as you've found a build you like, ignore us, and anybody who comes looking for a build can try it out. Last edited by zelgadissan; Aug 28, 2009 at 03:58 PM // 15:58.. |
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Aug 28, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35
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#14 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Guild: Plz Let Queen (live)
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I was using an AoG build for a bit, I had Whirling Charge and Mystic Vigor on my bar, just for extra healing. With a bond or 2 I was able to tank Shiro in NF so it wasn't too bad.
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Aug 28, 2009, 07:27 PM // 19:27
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#15 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Any AoG is going to be pretty mediocre in damage as compared to other dervish. Nevertheless I still think AoG should go for lots of hits not huge damage in order to fully capitalise on its life steal (seeping through those bosses 0 damage skills is quite fun). I was thinking of a dagger AoG alternating between GLS and SA as leads for the dagger chain:
14 Mysticism 12 Dagger Mastery 4 Wind Prayers Golden Lotus Strike | Sneak Attack | Fox Fangs | Death Blossom Attacker's Insight | Heart of Fury | Eternal Aura | Avatar of Grenth |
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Aug 28, 2009, 11:35 PM // 23:35
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#16 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2008
Guild: House of Myrthe (HoMe)
Profession: W/
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Let me put it to you guys this way, and then I'll stop responding to this thread.
I designed a build that will work for hard-mode hero-henching anywhere. That's my only goal, and it works. I did not design it to maximize damage. With 20 life-stealing per hit and a multiple-hit weapon otherwise known as a scythe, I'm focusing on maximizing hits, not maximizing damage. (Asuran scan is exactly the wrong kind of skill to put on a bar like that.) There are plenty of cookie-cutter dervish bars that cause more damage and you simply cannot hero-hench with them in HM. Showing us screen shots of how much damage MoD says your build can dish out is pointless. A build has to work in reality, not in MoD-land. As for whether I can take legitimate criticism: let's put some emphasis on the word "legitimate." Criticism from people who say you can't use PI and SY! together isn't legitimate. I explained in my previous post why it's totally wrong (PI sends back packets for all damage taken by minions and spirits, which SY! doesn't cover), and yet people still mumble that "they work against each other." Yeah, I gotta say, that IS a comment from someone who doesn't know much about GW. They don't work against each other. One kills the foe and the other protects your party. My godmode war has hero-henched everything in the game and he has PI and SY! on his bar. Last edited by Paul Dawg; Aug 28, 2009 at 11:43 PM // 23:43.. |
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Aug 29, 2009, 12:12 AM // 00:12
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#17 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wolfenstein: Goldrush
Guild: Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom]
Profession: N/
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Uhuh...Again, why max hits/lifesteal when you can max damage.
What makes your bar H/H and no other cookie cutter H/Hable? Your bar has same faults any other melee bar has, your EA could get rupted and your SoL on Grenth for awhile. You get get KD spammed, blinded, wtfe. And if you read my post it says something like I used this for most of my H/H crap etc. Test my build on the field and yours, mine isn't perfect, yours isn't either, mine is helluva lot better though. Other then that, cool story bro. Last edited by IronSheik; Aug 29, 2009 at 02:03 AM // 02:03.. Reason: Bad spells =< |
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Aug 29, 2009, 01:43 AM // 01:43
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#18 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Apr 2009
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^ Because scythes are slow and if you want to deal huge chunks of damage at a time, AoG is simply not a good elite to take as lifesteal is really meager for the scythe when there are better elites out there to boost your damage. Lifesteal shines when you go against certain mobs which have skills to boost armor / reduce damage / reflect damage hence you would want to maximise on hits instead of damage to fully capitalise on AoG's lifesteal.
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Aug 29, 2009, 08:54 AM // 08:54
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#19 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Apr 2009
Guild: FaZ
Profession: D/
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See, here's your problem. You seem to be assuming that we are saying that your build won't work. We're not. We're saying that it would be better if you did this and this and this. And it would.
Replacing Pain Inverter with AoHM, for example, would increase the amount of damage you're dealing to multiple foes, which appears to be the point of your build (you say it's to do a lot of lifesteal to multiple enemies, but ultimately that just means "lots of damage that also happens to heal me and ignores armor to lots of enemies"; guess what? pain inverter is far more contrary to the stated purpose of your build than AoHM, because it only affects one foe and depends on that foe's attack power for it's own). So, in other words, if you replaced PI with AoHM, your godmode build would be better at it's stated purpose. Also, since you're trying to get in a lot of hits in a short period of time, Eremite's Attack or Mystic Sweep would do better than Victorious Sweep, because their lower activations mean slightly more attacks in less time. The reason to use victorious sweep over those is to heal yourself. In terms of dps it simply is less powerful due to it's normal acitivation time. PI and SY! do work against each other somewhat, because inevitably some of the damage being dealt by the enemy is hitting your heroes and henchies. In fact, I'd be willing to wager they're being hit a lot, because heroes and henchies don't dodge AoE. It doesn't invalidate the strategy of using them together, but PI itself it not great for a build like yours in the first place that exists to hit a lot of foes at once. Asuran Scan does not affect your ability to attack multiple foes. It merely makes you deal more damage to one of those foes. Where's the downside, other than the fact that it would require a PvE slot you can't afford. Oh, yeah, one more thing I really need to mention: regardless of what you can take on with your build, no matter what areas you can clear, it sucks. Why? Because it's pointless. It's completely redundant. Consider the following: Warrior's Endurance Aura of Holy Might Pain Inverter Distracting Blow "Save Yourselves!" Eremite's Attack Mystic Sweep Lion's Comfort This W/D beats your build in literally every way. Anything your build can do, he can do better. |
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Aug 29, 2009, 04:51 PM // 16:51
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#20 | |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: England
Profession: A/
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