Curse

Bloody Dominator · Dec 06, 2009, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Don't know if this has been discussed in this/another similar topic but they could leave it tied to the SS title, but give it a 50% chance of failure when Mysticism > 4. Some skills already have this (Can't think of any other than Earth Shaker though). Maybe tweak the attribute level and failure rate to a more appropriate level. It'd keep it useable, but annoying for non Dervs.

Thats the sort of half-assed solution Anet would come up with....
Why would u want other classes then the derv to use it? Only a sin can use crit agilty, only an ele can use elemental lord and so on. So i dont see why you would do any different for Aura of holy might. Don't make it annoying, do make it unuseable. Ofc to make it viable then they would have to change mysticism so that its actually usefull.

Gennadios · Dec 06, 2009, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

3. Scythes - I like the wide damage range, however, I think it is slightly rediculous given that the Scythe is the only weapon with an inherent AoE effect, that ANY class can utilize it. This should be changed in one of two ways:
A. - Only Dervishes are able to utilize the ability to strike 3 targets at once or...
B. - Link the number of targets able to be hit adjacent to your target to Mysticism, say 1 adjacent target for every 4 levels in Mysticism. So at 0 to 4 Mysticism, a Scythe would only hit the target, 5 to 9 1 adjacent target, 10 to 13 2 adjacent targets, and 14 and up 3 adjacent targets (for a total of 4).

I'm all for wild stretches of plausibility here, but how the GOREDENGINE does it make sense to tie the number of enemies a scythe can hit to Mysticism instead of Scythe Mastery?

The only acceptable nerf would be something that was done to Death Magic. Limit the number of adjacent targets that can be hit at r12 to 2. Force the need for a scythe rune to give full effect. Problem solved.

The major gimpage of the derv comes from the way Mysticism functions. After applying the cocktail of enchants just to keep themselves from being torn apart, the derv is then expected to wade into combat with barely any energy and e-only attacks. If anything Mysticism should drop the cost of enchants, kind of like an expertise for Rangers.

Ferminator · Dec 06, 2009, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloody Dominator

Thats the sort of half-assed solution Anet would come up with....
Why would u want other classes then the derv to use it? Only a sin can use crit agilty, only an ele can use elemental lord and so on. So i dont see why you would do any different for Aura of holy might. Don't make it annoying, do make it unuseable. Ofc to make it viable then they would have to change mysticism so that its actually usefull.

No... it's a very good solution. Not every dervish likes mysticsm, at least until anet makes mysticsm a must-use attribute like crit-strikes/soul reaping etc.

On the topic of improving it though. It should give you energy every time you cast an enchantment and when one ends/ is removed on you. I do find the extra energy mysticsm gives at low atts helpful though.

Cuilan · Dec 06, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

Sand Shards - Change area of effect from nearby to adjacent, reduce damage, and make it armor ignoring. Alternatively, increase damage but keep the nearby AoE (this skill is useless in HM PvE).

Avatar of Melandru - at the very least, bring the energy cost down to 20 for PvE only

Sand Shards does 0-7 damage per in hard mode so I have to agree. Avatar of Melandru is fine.

Cerozero · Dec 23, 2009, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Having played assassin for a few months I decided to start a dervish and I quickly found out playing dervish is no picnic. You're expected to fight while juggling enchantments which is not an easy feat for someone who came to dervish from playing assassin which is rewarded with free energy just for attacking. I often fell flat on my face because of lack of energy in the beginning but have since figured the class out more or less.

The one big problem the dervish has is it's mysticism, it sucks. The other one is everyone can use the scythe better and after reading this thread I decided to register with guild wars guru and post some of my ideas.

Mysticism - Have it also raise the attack speed of scythes (or any weapon) and maybe give a movement speed buff or armor buff (like wind-walker armor) depending on level and number of enchantments.

With faster attack and movement speeds might give the dervish a reason to pair it's mysticism with the adrenal weapons for once and maybe some dagger shenanigans.

-or-

Mysticism - Make enchantments last longer, put the energy gain on the front end and somehow make them harder to strip. (this could spawn some kind of unholy SF dervish or something worse.)

I also like the idea recycling enchantments and lowered cost of enchantment ideas. I thought I was the only one that thought that the dervish was underpowered.

Darkside · Dec 26, 2009, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

1. Aura of Holy Might - it makes no sense that a skill like this should function as a normal skill, whereas a skill like Critical Agility functions off of the Sin's Critical Strikes. It should be changed to function exactly like CA, but based off of Mysticism.

I agree with you on this one... as it is now its the great dervish skill that any class can use and unfortunately in some cases more effectively. I think this is the single most important skill change that needs to be made (for the dervish), Because as it is now there is no reason to even make a dervish unless you like the way they look.

Hi Im Sunny · Dec 28, 2009, 08:35 PM // 20:35

As I've been playing a dervish for almost 3 years as a primary now, heres what I think;

Dervishes were MEANT to be 50/50; healing/damage. However, i find the main problem not to be in the skills but in the armor. For example; true casters such as mesmer/monk/necro etc. dont need armor, because they don't generally tank; they stand at a distance. Same goes for ele's and rangers, except they get the additional bonus of elemental armor considering they use touch skills on the enemy as well. On the other hand, dervishes/warriors are complete tankers, yet only warriors have an armor buff. I personally think it would be great if they added at least SOME form of buff as a standard for all dervish armor; perhaps add 30 health for each piece, or something like that. And for all those who try and argue in favor of assassins and how they have to be up close and personal as well, I can only say that they have the option of using range skills, while the dervish has no ranged skills to use.

For the AoHM argument; I dont have factions, and i probably never will. I will say, though, that i can dish out around 400 damage every 3 seconds in bursts to warriors, even without AoHM. Dervishes don't need AoHM, then just need to utilize more damage dealing skills; Vow of Strength was great, until it was nerfed.

IMO, dervish skillsets are a bit lacking. Although dervishes deal out massive damage and have plenty of self mantain enchants, the only practical solid heal they have (in earth prayers, anyways) heals for a max of 126, yet it has a 1 second cast. Even an ele's small amount of healing is better suited for survival than that! Also, even interrupters in NM PvE can interrupt a 1 second cast. What dervishes REALLY need is a shorter casting time for all of their skills. Take pious restoration, for example. It USED to be great, because it allowed for practically 0 energy healing with a 1/4 second cast, and a heal for ~90 health AND 3 hexes removed every 3 seconds. Now, however, it has a 1 second cast and an 8 second recharge, yet it allows for only an increase in 60 health, while otherwise staying the same.

Time to get back to what i really wanted to say.

Dervishes are great tankers and damage dealers, even if their healing ability is a bit lacking. The true problem lies not in the quality of their skills, but the quantity. The number of good skills they have can almost be counted on your fingers. In fact, I'll write down my list for you;

Armor of sanctity, conviction, ebon dust aura, mystic restoration, signet of pious light, vital boon, vow of strength, faithful intervention, heart of fury, imbue health, Vow of silence, mystic sweep, reapers sweep, victorious sweep, wounding strike, dwanyas touch.

Conclusion; Anet, GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME. Dervishes, the survivors of guild wars, can hardly survive as well as a necro. It's nearly impossible to even solo some of the easier areas in the game, such as kourna. They only have 2 regen skills, 2 solid heals, and 2 solid defensive skills. for gods sake, the only decent changes made to skills went to armor of sanctity and reapers sweep! Stop wasting time fixing canned builds and start spending more time buffing up those classes who need it!

Giga_Gaia · Dec 29, 2009, 09:19 AM // 09:19

I agree with tying AoHM to Mysticism, to actually ENCOURAGE the use of the class' primary attribute. Those buffs to wind/earth prayers were a poor attempt to balance the class because it gave other classes more tools to abuse (Mind Blast Ele's) while still leaving the poor Dervs behind in the dust.

Heck, I would even love to see mysticism trigger when casting an enchant and when it ends as well. The energy gain from using the many costly enchantments, as it stands right now, takes far too long to reap its benefits (waiting for it to end), and is far too little, especially when compared to Soul Reaping or Critical Strikes, where the amount of energy you can gain is absurd.

Lopezus · Jan 06, 2010, 02:44 PM // 14:44

While most proposed changes to mysticism would bring smile to my primary dervish i want to add that it would certainly bring some unmentioned consequencess. Generally it's like this : mysticism bonus is pretty weak while enchants are quite powerful (including all professions skills ie. RoF,PS..), so after buffing mysticism we would very soon see solo derv - "true enchantment king" builds that maybe even multiple enchant removal couldn't bring down.

CoonerTheRed · Jan 07, 2010, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

Generally it's like this : mysticism bonus is pretty weak while enchants are quite powerful (including all professions skills ie. RoF,PS..), so after buffing mysticism we would very soon see solo derv - "true enchantment king" builds that maybe even multiple enchant removal couldn't bring down.

that's ok IMO... dervs were clearly intended to be kings of enchants, so even if that means we start seeing "prot dervs," I think that makes sense.

I'd be intruiged by a mysticism boost to enchant cast time, in addition to an "smaller energy on start and end". Several of the in-combat enchants could go to 1-second casts, and have enchant cast time be something like 3/4 at r3, 1/2 second at r6, 1/4 second at r9 and instant at r12 mysticism. Maybe instant would have to be r15, but could be interesting.

---

I think people sort of underestimate the power of windwalker insignias... a dervish has the armor of a warrior, while enchanted. I wouldn't mind dervs starting at 70 armor, with 10 from blessed or up to 20 from windwalkers, that's potentially quite nice.

_Nihilist_ · Jan 07, 2010, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi Im Sunny

I personally think it would be great if they added at least SOME form of buff as a standard for all dervish armor; perhaps add 30 health for each piece, or something like that.

Dervish armor gives +25hp - and they are the only profession that gets an innate +hp bonus from their armor without adding insignias or runes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoonerTheRed

I think people sort of underestimate the power of windwalker insignias... a dervish has the armor of a warrior, while enchanted. I wouldn't mind dervs starting at 70 armor, with 10 from blessed or up to 20 from windwalkers, that's potentially quite nice.

Max Dervish Armor is 70AL.

I wouldn't mind AoHM scaling with Mysticism like Critical Agility, Seed of Life, and "There's Nothing to Fear!" scale with Critical Strikes, Divine Favor, and Leadership. Considering the description of the Dervish ("Scythe-wielding, hooded, Holy Warrior" is a close approximation from ANet's original snippet iirc) it would make sense that a primary Dervish would be able to utilize the skill's effect to greater effect than any other profession (then again, how many times has ANet allowed skills to be [ab]used by a secondary better than a primary?

).

CoonerTheRed · Jan 07, 2010, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

Max Dervish Armor is 70AL.

This is what I get for posting while caffeinating instead of post-caffeinating...

I was thinking derv armor is fine where it's at, because it has as much type-independent armor as a warrior as long as you're enchanted (Blesseds), so I wrote the comment about underestimating windwalkers. And then I looked up warrior and was reminded of their 20 to phys, so started thinking that a derv with enchants should be able to do an extra 10 over a warrior's standard armor with enchants, and for some reason thought that required an increase to derv's standard armor. Then I got all confused and wrote something. Then I went back to drinking coffee.

Next time I'll drink the coffee before finishing the post.

But yeah, a derv's armor is fine as long as you have enchants in the party (when i actually need the big armor, my derv almost never goes below 4: Aegis, prot spirit, AoHM, HoF). Their energy, their use of their profession-centered skill type (enchants), and their damage relative to other professions damage with scythes all need some work.

Owik Gall · Jan 07, 2010, 08:05 PM // 20:05

I remember one major update like around September of 09 where they made a few derv skill changes and buffs, yet no comment on mysticism. This problem has gone on way before then and still they haven't decided to do something with mysticism. Either they intentionally want to keep it as it is, or just plain ignore it. I'm guessing for the former. Past observations of Anet leads me to believe that they are stubborn at keeping what they've originally made and staying with their ideals of how they think ppl should play the game when in reality ppl play it differently.

What's abuse-able will be abused and what sucks, sucks.

Also about that update I mentioned, that is when they buffed Armor of Sanctity to inflict weakness around in addition to receiving less damage from foes with conditions. That was perfect for Dervishes, but anet had to nerf it to 15 secs instead of 5 because it was easily maintainable. This kind of shows the point I mentioned in other Derv complaint threads: Dervs can be made as either industructable, or useless. Never in between. Though I take back at what I said that it's a hopeless class b/c players can make use of it, despite it being outside anets intentions for it's use.

_Nihilist_ · Jan 07, 2010, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoonerTheRed

But yeah, a derv's armor is fine as long as you have enchants in the party (when i actually need the big armor, my derv almost never goes below 4: Aegis, prot spirit, AoHM, HoF). Their energy, their use of their profession-centered skill type (enchants), and their damage relative to other professions damage with scythes all need some work.

The thing is that it's not the Dervish mechanics that are crappy, it's the Assassin and Warrior mechanics that allow a broken weapon (the Scythe) to perform at levels above and beyond the originally intended function. Since this thread is about Dervs though, I'm not going to get into all the specifics, though I might start a Thread in the general Campfire that details all of that info.

Nechrond · Jan 18, 2010, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Will you guys stop trying to change mysticism already? I love it the way it is, thanks.