Originally Posted by reaper with no name

First off, IF it is true that you're only using your heroes to buff you, then guess what? Your build still sucks, because 100 avg dmg once every 1.75 sec is absolute crap damage output for a team. Especially considering a scythe sin ON IT'S OWN can outdamage that.

Also, that fails to support your original argument: that dervishes are good at doing damage. Let's go back to my calculations for a moment. Let's say your heroes have X builds that buff you by Y damage. If I used those heroes, guess what? I'd still easily kill you in damage. And my build STILL isn't good at dealing damage (it's advantage is it's ability to spam DW with a scythe while spamming SY!). So, if my build, which does more damage than yours, is not good for damage, then clearly, yours is not either. If you simply used my build in place of your own, you'd do more damage. If you were a scythe sin instead of a derv, you'd do yet more damage. How can you possibly claim that your derv is good at doing damage when just about anything that can use a scythe can beat your build at it?

The reason you MIGHT be able to hit 180 on SOME warriors is because they're idiots who use Frenzy and Healing Signet. Try it against warriors who know what they're doing, and you're looking at maybe 10 damage. Also, stop mixing up PvP and PvE; they are entirely different games. I also laugh at the fact that you use a derv in PvP (to be fair, I have done so as well in the little PvP I've done, but I don't pretend to have a good PvP character; I KNOW dervs suck at it).

Also, it's becoming abundantly clear that you are either one of two things: An idiot, or a troll. Please stop doing both.

Originally Posted by SuperCoha

Wth.. since when can heroes use SY!

Originally Posted by Fall Of Sudden

They cant lol but Reaper with No name just recently proved by agreeing that they can that he doesnt know to much.

Originally Posted by Fall Of Sudden

First of all take a chill pill for you are starting to get out of hand. 2nd The build is good for many things just you refuse to see that. And i havnt been mixing them up but you seem to making them the same when you say a A/D can kill me well guess what thats PVP and no they cant kill me. And no the warrior was not using frenzy or healing signet. It was a Lion Comfort warrior with Warrior Endurance. He was also wearing black obsidian armour (which doesnt mean to much).

Originally Posted by haggus71

Try to do a bunch of different things and you will do them all crappy.

Originally Posted by gw_poster

ok, just trolling these posts I can see that the OP topic has been considerably derailed - albeit with noteworthy debate - however, I submit to you this gem of a RA derv build that I've played around with just because RA is the place for these concoctions. With that said, tear this one apart (I've played a ranger main for 2.5+ years without much other experience with other prof's so be nice XD):

D/E
[Conjure Lightning][Shock][Wounding Strike][Crippling Sweet][Lyssa's Assault][Reap Impurities][Mystic Regeneration][Resurrection Signet] <-- or replace with something else for PvE

Air Magic - 10
Scythe Mastery - 12+1+2
Earth Prayers - 10

Shocking Scythe of Fortitude (customized)
Radiant/Attunements and Sup Vigor

Fun to play in RA - haven't tried it elsewhere

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

I missed the SY! thing because I was too busy tearing apart your so-called "arguments". Sorry.

If the warrior was not using healing signet and frenzy together, then it is not possible to hit him for 180 damage with any dervish build (I don't even think any profession can hit for that much against a warrior). Hell, a dervish can't even hit for that much against a caster. Well, unless the caster was really stupid and went /W and used healing signet or frenzy or did something equally stupid. But really, I don't think anyone's stupid enough to try that sort of thing.

[Chilling Victory][Reaper's Sweep][Victorious Sweep][Faithful Intervention][Vital Boon][Mystic Regeneration][Mystic Vigor][A rez of some sort]

"Good for many things"? Like what, failing? Let's see what it can do.

- Survive
- Kill
- Rez

It sucks at killing, I've already demonstrated that. It sucks at surviving, because a warrior or sin can easily outtank it (and outdamage it at the same time). It's not good at rezzing either, because you won't have time to do that while you're trying (and failing) to kill stuff.

By the way, I've been meaning to ask: where are you getting all the energy to stack all those unnecessary enchantments?

Anyway, off the top off my head, I'll make another build that beats yours in every single category:

[Chilling Victory][Reaper's Sweep][Faithful Intervention][Conviction][Mystic Regeneration][Aura of Holy Might][Heart of Fury][A rez of some sort]

Thanks to the synergy between armor and healing (which you apparently do not know exists), I'm tougher than you, I deal so much more damage than you it's not even funny, and I can still rez. Wa-la. I've done everything your build can do and more. And even this is a crappy build. It's just a little less crappy than yours.

So, what is your build good for? Nothing good, that's what. It's a crappy build. Get over it. If you want to keep playing it, okay, there's nothing wrong with that. Having fun is more important than being optimal. But don't go pretending it's a "good" build when it's obviously crap. You don't see me saying my crazy RoJ dervish build is "good", do you?

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

I thought we were operating under the assumption that your heroes are existing only to buff you? If so, they are putting more than enough enchantments on you to fuel whatever you might need. It's the only way you'll be able to fuel all your enchantments, I can tell you that much.

Also, your build is less energy efficient because of all your attack skills. Attack skills are used far more often than enchantments.

And your build is still mostly redundant. Here, I'll show you a much more effective assassin:

[Critical Agility][Reaper's Sweep][Victorious Sweep][Way of the Master][Chilling Victory][Mystic Regeneration][Vital Boon][Aura of Holy Might]

Look, look! Armor! Something you keep ignoring. It makes me take less damage, so I don't need as much healing to get the same effect. Mystic Vigor and Faithful Intervention are made worthless by this. I'm also doing WAY more damage than you are. Do you consider a hard rez to be enough to make a suboptimal build viable? I sure don't. And before you mention that I'm using all 8 skills, Chilling Victory can be dropped. I'll still outdamage you easily with all the critical hits I'll be getting.

Seriously, stop misleading people. This board exists to help people build their dervishes better. All you're doing here is confusing them with bad builds and bad ideas.

See, there are several basic things you don't understand about building frontline melee:

1) Armor + Healing > Healing x2

2) You are part of a team, NOT the whole team.

3) Dead things can't hurt anyone

4) Keeping stuff alive is what monks do best, NOT what dervishes do best

A monk can keep you alive much better than you can. If the monk can't keep you alive on his own, then it means you're doing something wrong. It means that enemies are surviving too long. In other words, you're failing to kill them. That's your job. You might think all your self-healing is necessary, but it's nothing more than a waste of energy, energy you should be putting towards killing stuff. Why is this so hard to grasp? You've made several blatantly false claims, you've openly admitted to using a team with no offensive capability, and you continue to claim that your build is good, even when I show you better ones. Just stop. You're wasting everyone's time. Even you must realize this by now.

Originally Posted by Fall Of Sudden

So get off your one man army idea for thats not how it works in PVE

Originally Posted by Fall Of Sudden

There is no way that 1 man can take out mobs and mobs of enemies unless they are a monk (they can on their own.)

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

Warriors do seem to have a little trouble doing good damage without bringing along a scythe, sadly. But I suspect with that they would be able to compete with a dervish just fine.

Although it may be "just" normal mode, I've been able to do plenty of DPS bringing a Lyssa AoHM dervish into DoA.

Originally Posted by Fall Of Sudden

My build is highly energy efficent you dunce. My monk doesnt have to enchantment or anything and it energy efficient. I been testing my build out in many different situations and you know what? It works for fast recovery of energy. And you need to stop misleading people for sure! You dont know anything about Derv enchantment by the sounds of it! YOu consider a derv as a single frontliner full assualt type of character when in reality it never was intended to be! Dude you need to reconsider what your talking about for your all about damage and its PVE you keep forgetting your not a one man army. Your making it sound as if PVE and PVP are the same for your saying you have to be a 1 man army. There is other people and NPCs helping you! So death happens to multiple enemies at once. Never did i say this was a farming build since it never was intended to be so get off the one man army style for i have seen so many people do it in GW and guess what it never works! There is no way that 1 man can take out mobs and mobs of enemies unless they are a monk (they can on their own.) So get off your one man army idea for thats not how it works in PVE

Originally Posted by gw_poster

[Conjure Lightning][Shock][Wounding Strike][Crippling Sweet][Lyssa's Assault][Reap Impurities][Mystic Regeneration][Resurrection Signet] <-- or replace with something else for PvE

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

You're the one who treats their character like a one man army, by claiming that you use your party just to buff you. I play as part of a team, and do my job within that team. Everyone else does their jobs. The nukers nuke, the healers heal, the interrupters interrupt, and the melee (me) does melee. That's a team. Not this "oh, hey, I'm going to devote my entire party to buffing me so I can do an amount of damage that sucks compared to what a party is capable of". I can't survive on my own, I need the monks to keep me alive. And I know they can do it better than I could ever hope to. I also need the nukers to nuke things, and deal damage to a lot of things at once. And the interruptors/hexers help weaken the enemy so that they do less damage or die more easily. But the rest of my party depends on me to go toe to toe with the enemies and make sure they never leave the spot I stop them at.

That's the thing. By focusing on survivability (the monk's job), you are not doing your own job in the party. Your job is to kill things in melee and keep them attacking you. Guess what? Your build fails at that. The only way it can do any real damage is to force the rest of the party to buff you instead of doing their jobs, in which case the overall party is still doing less damage than it should.

Oh, and by the way, you never did bother to show us exactly how your heroes are buffing you to deal that 100 avg dmg. I'm skeptical of that claim.

And no, it is not energy efficient. Unless you're not spamming your attack skills (in which case, why have them?), you WILL use more energy than that example build I made. Remember, you don't get back energy from attack skills. Or do you have a necro using BiP on you too?

The dervish isn't a full assault character. It's a gimmick melee character. You find gimmicks that work and use them. Guess what? Self-healing = survivability. Unfortunately, that's not a gimmick. That's not something the dervish does well. If you want to focus on tanking (which is all your build is really "good" for), you're better off as an assassin or warrior.

Examples of gimmicks that do work for dervishes:

I once saw a Pious Renewal Dervish who had a bunch of quick casting enchantments and mystic sandstorm. That's a good gimmick build (it's worth noting, however, that this is not a melee build, unlike yours).

Vow of Strength + Wild Blow against Shiro.

Wounding Strike + Save Yourselves! (this is what I run).

Avatar of Melandru (condition immunity)

Avatar of Dwayna (hex removal)

Ebon Dust Aura (blind the shit out of people)

There are many others, but these are some that I know of. But your build is not a gimmick build. It's a tanking build, pure and simple. In PvP tanking is generally considered bad (or so I hear, I'm not really a PvP guy). And in PvE, it's surpassed by other professions. So why even bother? It's like an elementalist picking up a sword and expecting to do well with it. It's bad by definition.

Seriously, you bring a build that can't do anything well and expect us all to believe that it's anything other than crap?

Originally Posted by Fall Of Sudden

+12 energy every time an enchantment ends.

Originally Posted by SuperCoha

Whenever an Enchantment ends, you gain 1 Health for each rank of Mysticism and 1 Energy for every 3 ranks of Mysticism.

Let's do some simple maths. At 12 mysticism, you gain:

12 / 3 = 4 energy. Not 12. Four.

I'm starting to think you don't even play a dervish the way you talk nonsense all over this thread.

Originally Posted by Eradras

I put your PvE build to the test in Bjora Marches in Hard Mode on the Berserking Minotaurs. It failed miserably - dealing an average of 30-50 dmg with autoattack, and an average of 80~ with attack skills. I also had SoH and JI equipped on a monk hoping I'd see some impressive numbers, but alas. The numbers did go over 100 a couple of times, my guess would be that I was somehow lucky enough to trigger a critical hit and an Armor Penetration of +20% from my weapon mod (and another +20% from JI). This only happened 2 or 3 times on the Berserking Minotaur.
Mystic Vigor, Mystic Regeneration, Vital Boon and Faithful Intervention all proved to be quite redundant, my monk and 2 Monk henchmen were more than capable of keeping me alive (note that my hero Monk was a smiter equipped with RoJ, reversal of damage, smite condition/hex, Judges Insight and Strength of Honour, the build was modified solely for the purpose of this test).

I am going to plead you to stop misleading people, if you want the screenshots of the damage I was doing I shall upload them, hell, I'll even make a video if you insist.

Originally Posted by Fall Of Sudden

You did your math wrong then for I just used my derv last night and every time an enchantment ended I was getting +12 energy back. Check again. I was on the other hand getting +4hp back