Curse

Bobby2 · Apr 20, 2009, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

I have strong sense of deja-vu in this thread.

Anyhow, reaper, you overestimate value of blindness and value of dervish and blind bot.

With SY, blidness is nearly obsolete thanks to damage reduction of SY! If you want to apply condition, weakness is easier and cheaper to apply than blindness and does not require nearly dedicated build to keep up.

Truth. Morgahn is P/N for [rip enchantment] and [enfeebling blood], combined with SY! this means enemy physicals don't worry me at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

As dervish you have one huge advantgate that you did not consider yet: AOE Deep Wound on three second recharge. Noone else can do [Wounding Strike] spam like you. Well, assassin can, but they can not spam SY and WS together, now can they.

As a Derv, I'd be tempted to run [avatar of melandru][wearying strike] over [wounding strike], especially considering my role as main [save yourselves] spammer.

But yeah, using a Scythe + being able to shout SY! has to be -the- selling point of Dervishes (which it isn't...[avatar of balthazar]

)

reaper with no name · Apr 20, 2009, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Wounding Strike has the advantage of inflicting bleeding. With the 3 sec recharge, you can pretty much keep an enemy hemorhaging red stuff constantly. Or rather, multiple enemies.

Plus, if you're using Wearying Strike and your avatar ever gets interrupted, that skill becomes a waste of space (well, unless you really want to screw yourself over by actually using it). Then there's also the longer recharge time of Wearying Strike to consider, and the fact that to use Wearying Strike effectively you basically need two other skills. Wounding Strike works just fine all by it's lonesome.

I guess the WS+SY! sounds like a good enough idea too. No reason I can't have more than one non-avatar build, right?

Funny part is, though, somebody did already mention this way earlier in the thread, and I sort of missed it because I was too busy slapping myself in the forehead for not realizing that SY! was a warrior skill. Now I'm slapping myself in the forehead for missing that. I'll probably miss something else now and start an endless cycle.

Bobby2 · Apr 20, 2009, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Bleeding is a measly -3 degen (6 damage per second). Useful as a cover condition, but not much else. Stuff usually explodes too fast for it to matter.

Wearying's 6 sec recharge is another matter. It's a definite downside. Then again, it does have bonus damage tacked on, and allows you to run another Elite.

Having your Avatar not interrupted is a matter of correct positioning. I hadn't taken the possibility of having to go at it mortal-style into consideration. That said, Wounding Strike also requires another skill to be used (an enchantment). Of course that would be [heart of fury], you were gonna take it anyway - but this also requires an alternate means of recharging it. So in fact the comparison is

[wearying strike][heart of fury][air of superiority][avatar of melandru]
VS
[wounding strike][heart of fury][air of superiority]

reaper with no name · May 11, 2009, 08:30 PM // 20:30

For anyone who was curious, this is what I ended up with:

[For Great Justice!][Aura of Holy Might][Heart of Fury][Chilling Victory][Wounding Strike][Victorious Sweep][Save Yourselves!][Faithful Intervention]

The only thing I don't like about it is CV. I sort of wish there was another scythe attack that I could replace it with. Something like Victorious Sweep. Thinking about replacing it with [Reap Impurities]. Nice consistent damage there, and yet another potential self-heal that would go great with WS.

It's worth noting, though, that For Great Justice! is the only skill in the game that does what it says...

...In real life.

Arctica · May 13, 2009, 08:15 AM // 08:15

I am experimenting with this build recently:

[build prof=D/Mo Mys=6+1 Scy=12+2 EarthP=11+1 Pro=2][Wounding Strike][Chilling Victory][Victorious Sweep][Drunken Master][Great Dwarf Armor][Armor of Sanctity][Mystic Regeneration][Mending Touch][/build]

It works relatively well, not bad for tanking, the damage output is, however, lower than that of a scythe sin.

As for SY!, it is a nice skill, but not on a frontliner's skill bar, imo.

iVendetta · May 13, 2009, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

Warriors and assassins both have better energy management, better maintainable IAS skills and better survivability, in addition to having very similar damage output. (crit agil/defences on a sin. shouldn't have to explain war.)

You underestimate the Dervish.

Energy management? Warriors, my ass.
[[Zealous Vow] is far more superior than [[Warrior's Endurance]. Why? Zealous Vow has far more energy gain, is maintainable with even 0 points in Wind Prayers, is not limited to only melee attacks, and it does not have a peak. This badass enchantment coupled with an IAS and some ADD'd AI turns you into a energy-pumping machine due to the Scythe's ability to hit multiple foes.

In addition, Dervishes should never have trouble maintaining energy with the help of Mysticism and many other energy-gaining skills in a Dervish's arsenal.

IAS is one of the Dervish's specialties. Theoretically, [[Heart of Fury] is nonpareil compared to any other IAS. Take a look at [[Frenzy] or even [[Critical Agility]. They both have a downside. Although smart use of Frenzy is finally hitting people, it still has a downside; you take double the damage. Not a very comforting stance. Critical Agility is reasonably good, but the downside is that it is a PvE skill- it takes up a PvE slot on your bar and it can not be used in PvP. On the other hand, Heart of Fury does not have a real downside other than it's recharge time. This can be made ever-lasting with [[Eternal Aura], a skill which is most common in Dervish bars.

Dervishes give survivability a whole new definition with the introduction of Avatars. [[Avatar of Balthazar], [[Avatar of Dwayna], [[Avatar of Grenth], [[Avatar of Lyssa], and [[Avatar of Melandru]. Feast your eyes upon them, kids. Yeah. In addition to those, the Dervish can literally defy death with it's many self-healing skills.

The Dervish is an extremely capable and versatile class, and those who believe they 'suck' really need to step back to reality and hit the Create a New Character button.

Chthon · May 14, 2009, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

After reading through several threads in this section of the forum, a question kept coming to my mind:

"Ok, so Dervishes suck except when they're in a situation where AoM or AoD is useful. But does it HAVE to be that way? Are there any exceptions?"

So, here is my challenge to you all: Find/make a build that does the following:

A) Is a Dervish primary
B) Doesn't utilize AoM, AoD, or VoS
C) Does X better than a Warrior, Assassin, or any other profession could if it tried to do a build with similiar capabilities (does not necessarily need to be the same thing, [ie, it could tank better than an assassin, but not as well as a warrior, but be more damaging than the warrior])

In other words, I challenge any willing to accept to find a "good" Dervish build that doesn't rely on the typical crutches. Call it an exercise in optimization.

1. I don't think AoM, AoD, and VoS are actually all that great.

2. I strongly suspect that there's no such thing as a "good" melee dervish. On a general level, all of the top warrior and assassin builds trade off to find some balance of 3 functions: SY! spam, disruption via knockdown, and damage output. Problem is, dervishes can't really do as well any at of those, so the sum is too low no matter which dimension you try to maximize. Not enough adrenaline gain to keep up SY! as well; no native knockdowns, not enough adrenaline to keep up with BH, and no way to recharge CoaTB; crappy +damage melee attacks and (biggest problem with the class right here: ) locked out of the best intrateam synergies by avatars and AoHM changing the damage type.

3. Caster or gimmick builds might work. Remember for caster builds that you're competing with ER doing the same thing and N/X doing the same thing.

Megas XLR · May 14, 2009, 04:17 PM // 16:17

I play Dervish because I only like playing with one character. Dervishes are really flexible and can run a lot of builds. I can run Wounding Strike, Avatars, or Zealous Vow while vanquishing, Prot while doing certain missions, Arcane Orders with physicals, or run into Charr missions with a plethora of Ebon Vanguard skills.

Not to mention, Assassins look pretty bad compared to Dervishes.

Fall Of Sudden · May 21, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. I don't think AoM, AoD, and VoS are actually all that great.

2. I strongly suspect that there's no such thing as a "good" melee dervish. On a general level, all of the top warrior and assassin builds trade off to find some balance of 3 functions: SY! spam, disruption via knockdown, and damage output. Problem is, dervishes can't really do as well any at of those, so the sum is too low no matter which dimension you try to maximize. Not enough adrenaline gain to keep up SY! as well; no native knockdowns, not enough adrenaline to keep up with BH, and no way to recharge CoaTB; crappy +damage melee attacks and (biggest problem with the class right here: ) locked out of the best intrateam synergies by avatars and AoHM changing the damage type.

3. Caster or gimmick builds might work. Remember for caster builds that you're competing with ER doing the same thing and N/X doing the same thing.

People always seem to forget the main effect of dervs that no other type of character can do! With their mystism attribute they are able to regain HP and Energy everytime an enchantment ends by ANY means. So it makes them worth investing time into a derv. I have had my derv for over a year now and I can tell you that I never used those skills that this challenge is prohibiting. Using the correct enchantments are able to turn of derv into a tank easily. I usually use my derv in Jade Quarry and AB. If you have every thing correct on a derv they can pretty much destroy any type of sin or warrior but mesmers are still a problem but which class doesnt have trouble with a good mesmer? I will post my build if wanted for its great at tanking but not suggested for solo farming thats the only thing it fails at mostly. I do not use avatars for i have slain too many people who do in RA and TA as well in JQ. As well Dervs if used correctly dont need to interrupt or anything. And if used against them which they have been used against me on many occasions they are quite capable of surviving if done right.

SuperCoha · May 21, 2009, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fall Of Sudden

People always seem to forget the main effect of dervs that no other type of character can do! With their mystism attribute they are able to regain HP and Energy everytime an enchantment ends by ANY means. So it makes them worth investing time into a derv. I have had my derv for over a year now and I can tell you that I never used those skills that this challenge is prohibiting. Using the correct enchantments are able to turn of derv into a tank easily. I usually use my derv in Jade Quarry and AB. If you have every thing correct on a derv they can pretty much destroy any type of sin or warrior but mesmers are still a problem but which class doesnt have trouble with a good mesmer? I will post my build if wanted for its great at tanking but not suggested for solo farming thats the only thing it fails at mostly. I do not use avatars for i have slain too many people who do in RA and TA as well in JQ. As well Dervs if used correctly dont need to interrupt or anything. And if used against them which they have been used against me on many occasions they are quite capable of surviving if done right.

Can you post your build? I'm curious.

Fall Of Sudden · May 22, 2009, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperCoha

Can you post your build? I'm curious.

Ok here is my PVP build (since there is a few changes to skills in PVP from PVE) <Conviction, Reaper's Sweep, Victorious Sweep, Faithful Intervention, Vital Boon, Mystic Regen, Mystic Vigor, Heart of Fury 11 Scyth, 10Earth, 10 Mystism...... With runes it should be 12 Scyth, 12 Earth, 12 Mystism> The only difference from this build compared to my PVE build is that i took out Conviction and Heart of Fury and replaced with Chilling Victory and a form of Resurrect.

This build i made when i was noob at dervs but havnt really changed it at all just learned all its properities. Take note get a scyth with a +20% enchantment on it and rune your armour to benefit with or without Enchantments. Make sure you have Windwalker on your armour for it benefits you a lot. Proper runes and use of your energy allows an average of 118 damage and only 50 to yourself. I once hit a warrior in JQ for 180 damage so dervs can power hit if needed. I know the runes i am asking you to use are also taking some of your hp away but Vital Boon makes your hp go above 600 any way. My build i have used to slay Avatar people (but not while they are in it but it makes me strong enough to withstand their attacks long enough for the avatar to end and make them 100% Vulnerable again)

Do note that i make lots of references to PVP for this is what the build is intended for. I havnt come around yet and make a proper PVE build i just use the variation and it does good for the most part. With a hero ranger with symboises spirit summon thing it would make the dervs hp reach 1,700 hit points easily.

Chthon · May 22, 2009, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fall Of Sudden

People always seem to forget the main effect of dervs that no other type of character can do! With their mystism attribute they are able to regain HP and Energy everytime an enchantment ends by ANY means.

That, and a couple of dollars, will buy you a loaf of bread. PvE melee builds are supposed to do damage to the monsters via attacks (buffed with enchants, weapons, and curses), prevent damage to your party via SY!, and prevent the monsters from healing/doing damage/fleeing by knocking them down. A small self-heal and some e-management don't accomplish those tasks. Small self-heals are generally weak since they don't help anyone but you, and can't even keep you alive under heavy fire. At best, they reduce pressure on your monk. Adequate e-management is a requirement of every suitable build. Having decent e-management doesn't make dervs good; it makes them not-awful.

I can understand where your misconception came from though. You seem to be focused on low-end PvP. In situations where both sides have roughly equal DPS and no monks (ie low-end PvP), a steady self-heal is indeed an excellent way to tilt the battle in your favor. It is, however, darned near worthless in serious PvE.

Fall Of Sudden · May 22, 2009, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

That, and a couple of dollars, will buy you a loaf of bread. PvE melee builds are supposed to do damage to the monsters via attacks (buffed with enchants, weapons, and curses), prevent damage to your party via SY!, and prevent the monsters from healing/doing damage/fleeing by knocking them down. A small self-heal and some e-management don't accomplish those tasks. Small self-heals are generally weak since they don't help anyone but you, and can't even keep you alive under heavy fire. At best, they reduce pressure on your monk. Adequate e-management is a requirement of every suitable build. Having decent e-management doesn't make dervs good; it makes them not-awful.

I can understand where your misconception came from though. You seem to be focused on low-end PvP. In situations where both sides have roughly equal DPS and no monks (ie low-end PvP), a steady self-heal is indeed an excellent way to tilt the battle in your favor. It is, however, darned near worthless in serious PvE.

You have to know how to use the build before you know the full effects of it are. My PVE version of the build is mostly there so the monk concentrates on themselves and the other people more rather then me. I also have a high damage output in PVE still even with all those enchantments. And it works in TA and have managed to get into HA once and won 3 rounds so thats high end PVP. My build doesnt get rid or really produce conditions but ups the endurance to a lvl where it makes you pretty near unkillable. It is a pretty good way to use a derv for it makes them a heavier tank then a warrior and still producing equal or more damage as one. As for heavy pve it has done a very great job so far so if it works why change it to something you dont know that would work or not? And plus i dont have to change my build often and Not really wonder how crappy someone elses monks are for i am doing most of the healing and fighting myself. Each enchantment lasts long enough for me to fight for long periods of time without recasting and makes energy managment extremely easy. Dont dis a build you havnt tried or dont know its potential in a real match. All a derv needs for my build is the right weapon (since they changed Mystic Regen to be less time) and proper runes and it works just fine. So the build works for both HM Vanquishing and Missions without changing and also HA (if i had rank in hero i would be doing it more but since they need a rank to get into a group i cant Kinda stupid i think so i am after Glad title to prove i got rank) it also works in RA and TA and has won like 3 matchs for hero battles.

One of my favorite tactics in PVE is to flag my heroes and henchies and run head long into a group of enemies wiht all enchantments up then unflag heroes by the time they get their I would have taken lots out and proberly just in need in some hp if its heavy hitting enemies (which is rare but its ruby djiins that i try to advoid doing that with). Other then Djiins it works with everything. Hexs dont effect my derv all the much and not a concern neither are conditions expect blindness but my monks are equiped against that.

SuperCoha · May 22, 2009, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fall Of Sudden

With runes it should be 12 Scyth, 12 Earth, 12 Mystism

Two major runes? That's a lot of hp down the drain. You'd be using Vital Boon just to cover that up.. Not really something I prefer. Besides, you don't really need 12 earth prayers since mystic regeneration is capped anyway, and vital boon is there just to cover up for the loss of hp.

Quote:

i took out Conviction and Heart of Fury and replaced with Chilling Victory and a form of Resurrect.

Resurrect on a dervish? Leave it to the heroes, you don't want to stop blowing stuff up to resurrect in the middle of the battle. Besides, monks do it better.

Quote:

Proper runes and use of your energy allows an average of 118 damage and only 50 to yourself.

Where does that damage come from? Only from RS and VS? I have 13 scythe mastery, and even with AoHM I don't average ~120 damage.. in HM, of course. Unless you're talking about NM, that's a different story.

Quote:

I once hit a warrior in JQ for 180 damage so dervs can power hit if needed.

I love it when they use frenzy.

Quote:

My build i have used to slay Avatar people (but not while they are in it but it makes me strong enough to withstand their attacks long enough for the avatar to end and make them 100% Vulnerable again)

I kill them while they're 'in it'. You should too.

Quote:

i am doing most of the healing and fighting myself.

You can't really heal better than a monk. And you can't prot. Leave it to the monks/heroes.

Quote:

One of my favorite tactics in PVE is to flag my heroes and henchies and run head long into a group of enemies wiht all enchantments up then unflag heroes by the time they get their I would have taken lots out and proberly just in need in some hp if its heavy hitting enemies

Are you sure that's HM you're talking about? With enchantment stripping and heavy damage they would easily take you out before you'd even get close. Not all mobs, but the stronger ones.

Well, that's my opinion. I'm not trying to say your build isn't working or something, I can't say.. maybe it does for you. I just think there's room for improvement.

Maneo Ranae · May 22, 2009, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperCoha

Two major runes? That's a lot of hp down the drain. You'd be using Vital Boon just to cover that up.. Not really something I prefer. Besides, you don't really need 12 earth prayers since mystic regeneration is capped anyway, and vital boon is there just to cover up for the loss of hp.

Actually, just one major rune. He said 11 Scythe, 10 Earth, 10 Mysti. With Runes, 12 Scythe, 12 Earth, 12 Mysti. That makes; a minor rune on Scythe, headpiece + minor rune on Earth/Mysti, and ONE Major rune on the last one.

Quote:

Resurrect on a dervish? Leave it to the heroes, you don't want to stop blowing stuff up to resurrect in the middle of the battle. Besides, monks do it better.

Have to agree on this one

Quote:

Where does that damage come from? Only from RS and VS? I have 13 scythe mastery, and even with AoHM I don't average ~120 damage.. in HM, of course. Unless you're talking about NM, that's a different story.

QFT.

Quote:

I love it when they use frenzy.

QFT ^^.

Also, Reaper, I noticed you created a new skillbar from this thread, and you said you were D/W but wanted to get rid of Chilling Victory? Just try out Whirlwind Attack, you'll love it.

Fall Of Sudden · May 22, 2009, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperCoha

Two major runes? That's a lot of hp down the drain. You'd be using Vital Boon just to cover that up.. Not really something I prefer. Besides, you don't really need 12 earth prayers since mystic regeneration is capped anyway, and vital boon is there just to cover up for the loss of hp.
Resurrect on a dervish? Leave it to the heroes, you don't want to stop blowing stuff up to resurrect in the middle of the battle. Besides, monks do it better.
Where does that damage come from? Only from RS and VS? I have 13 scythe mastery, and even with AoHM I don't average ~120 damage.. in HM, of course. Unless you're talking about NM, that's a different story.
I love it when they use frenzy.
I kill them while they're 'in it'. You should too.
You can't really heal better than a monk. And you can't prot. Leave it to the monks/heroes.
Are you sure that's HM you're talking about? With enchantment stripping and heavy damage they would easily take you out before you'd even get close. Not all mobs, but the stronger ones.
Well, that's my opinion. I'm not trying to say your build isn't working or something, I can't say.. maybe it does for you. I just think there's room for improvement.

Resurrect on my derv is really only there for support for my heroes for i am wasting resurrect on my monks who can use that extra spot for a healing prayer or a protect. And heroes tend to die still so i have resurrect to back it up so that i can bring them back. And I heal just as good as a monk healing me but Monks make it less work on my build if they heal me. And i am able to kill the stupid dervs in their avatar forms but the more stronger derv players in avatar form are harder to kill while they are in it espically if they are using a vital boon, mystic regen and faithful intervention. Vital boon is not there to cover it up since i am getting +170 extra hp where i lost only 50hp so thats 120 more hp to the hp. To gain ore hp then needed just bring a hero with symbolysis it really ups your hp to a outstanding lvl. And yes 180 is very easy to get in HM and about Enchantment lose it dont matter to much since the enchantments i am using have low down time and monks are their to help keep you alive.

reaper with no name · May 22, 2009, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Actually, a hard rez isn't as bad on a derv as people might think in PvE. I used to use it (though to be fair, that was back when I thought AoG was good). If you don't have SY!, it can be okay. Remember, heroes are stupid, and near-wipes happen, and when they do, you'll be kicking yourself if you're the only one left and you don't have a hard rez.

I ended up swapping Chilling Victory for Mystic Sweep. Whirlwind Attack would actually have been a bad choice, because (due to being an adrenal skill) it would have interfered with my SY! spam.

However, I have to say, that PvE build Fall posted itsn't very good. It reminds me of my AoG days, when I saw +17 life stealing as awesome. Specifically, it makes me think you lack experience in what the profession can do well and what other professions can do.

To start off with, a dervish build without either AoHM or at least a conjure is just gimping itself. There's a reason everyone who uses a scythe takes AoHM. It adds an insane amount of damage.

Second, Heart of Fury is a requirement for dervishes in PvE. Scythes attack far too slowly normally for any decent DPS. Sure, you might think you're doing DPS, but without HoF, you're not. Trust me. Play as a warrior or a sin for a while, and you'll find out.

Conviction is a feeble attempt at matching the warrior's tanking capabilities. But guess what? He can go W/D and take it too, and he'll easily outtank you (technically, he can tank at least as well as you even without it). Same with Mystic Regeneration and Mystic Vigor. Any skills your dervish could possibly take to tank outside of AoB, the Warrior can potentially take as well (and more, which is why AoB sucks; even with it a dervish won't tank as well as a warrior who takes any kind of armor-increasing skill), and he'll beat you at it. Meanwhile, he'll also be doing more damage, making you completely redundant.

Oh, and you know what else? The Sin can outtank the dervish as well. Once again, it has access to the same tanking skills as an A/D, as well as a myriad of blocking skills that make it much more effective as a tank than the dervish (to say nothing of SF). And he'll be doing more damage than you as well. Seeing a pattern here?

Vital Boon essentially does nothing there except make up for the HP you sacrificed to get that armor and self-healing you don't need. But all the while, it and all the other enchantments are eating up your energy. You're wasting time and energy maintaining those when you should be killing stuff.

And as for the self-heals, why are you bothering? Do you know why there are separate professions, instead of one profession that does everything? To encourage specialization. Melee tanks and kills stuff. Healers heal. Nukers nuke. However, at the end of the day, they all try to do one thing: survive. They each do it in separate ways, however. Healers do it by keeping the damage dealers alive. The damage dealers do it by killing the things trying to kill them. And there's synergy there. 8 nukers or 8 healers or 8 melee characters is not as effective as a well-balanced party.

When you put a lot of focus into healing yourself, you're sacrificing damage-dealing capabilities. You're giving up what your profession is GOOD at to do something that another class does better. You're making yourself redundant. And in the end, you're hurting yourself more than you're helping, because while you may have a couple more HP now, those enemies are gonna live a lot longer, and do a lot more damage to you, as well as to the squishier members of your party. Even if you can keep yourself alive, it's meaningless if your party dies, because you need them to survive, and death penalty is a big problem. Those enemies aren't going to kill themselves (well, unless they've been hexed with Spiteful Spirit or something

).

In other words, to quote something I once read somewhere on this board:

"You're frontline melee. Kill shit"

Can you get by with a build like you were running? Yes (I got all the way to the realm of torment running AoG and some really crappy heroes). But it'll be much worse than what your profession is capable of. If you really want to make good use of your dervish, you need to learn about the few things he CAN do better than the competition and do those, rather than trying to copy their strategy (MOAR TANKING) and failing.

Quote:

Conviction, Reaper's Sweep, Victorious Sweep, Faithful Intervention, Vital Boon, Mystic Regen, Mystic Vigor, Heart of Fury 11 Scyth, 10Earth, 10 Mystism......

Here's a better version of what you're running:

[Aura of Holy Might][Victorious Sweep][Heart of Fury][Faithful Intervention][Reaper's Sweep][Mystic Sweep][Chilling Victory][Attacker's Insight]

It's still not "good" (a sin could do it better; you need to put SY! in there somewhere for it to be "good") but it's a heck of a lot better than what you have now.

Heh heh heh. This is funny. It's like this thread is the story of my education in the art of derving. And now, I'm passing the final exam with flying colors.

Fall Of Sudden · May 24, 2009, 08:20 AM // 08:20

All valid points i do agree but lol everyone misses one point i did bring up on here awhile ago when i first mentioned my build. Its mostly PVP and not really recommended for PVE and currently working on a PVE build that is better (once i get time too been busy with my paragon and my warrior) I do have a full frontal character and have played a warrior.

My Warrior has basically all frontal and little to no healing(of course do to that fact that it is a warrior and only semi good one is Lion's Comfort) On the remark about SY!, I find the duration to short and easily countered (I know that one for sure! I do it all the time ignoring armour). It may help in PVE a bit but not every build needs it for i find it a waste of time to use all the time and kinda pointless in regards to any of my builds. I use instead on my warrior "You are the Strongest" since the benefits are pretty good and is really my only energy consuming skill. I would let a paragon deal with the shouting since they benefit from them and able to make them stronger. Dervs on the other hand dont need to deal with such a waste of space in PVE when in all regards there is a Paragon hero for that one and dervs have to consentrate more on fighting and enchantments Hence why they have that special attribute and all that wonderful energy

and sins i find die way to freaken fast and dont deal enough damage in enough time for my liking in PVE. PVP i must admit they have their great advantages but in PVE they are highly lacking in damage but not conditions i must give them that (but so do rangers and they do it a lot better then a sin can).

But i use that build for PVE currently (how little i do it with my derv) since it is efficent and the party i do bring along with me all the time is always well balanced since i dont want to get caught off guard. Chilling Victory, Reapers Sweep, Victorious Sweep are pretty good skills for high damage output. And Vital Boon doesnt waste HP at all but just gives you more then heals you in the end which is helpful in some situations. It has only a 5 energy cost so its no big deal considering once it ends it gives me 4-6 energy back. Lots of healing and point is to attract all the attention on to yourself so you take all the hard hits letting your squishy people nuke them.

Tactics is highly suggested and to be 100% honest the builds work for me and only for me. I have given some of my warrior builds to people just to see if they could figure them out but they failed to understand its basics. I also have a necro but of course any dunce can learn how to use a simple WK/IP anti melee build. My warrior builds people have tried and failed where i have successed. But of course i havnt come up with a farming build that suits me (sure there is those specialized farming builds but I am going for the big challenge of finding a semiUniversal farming build)

Funniest times are killing someone off with an PVP wammo build then they cant figure out how i did it without dying for my build looks wierd (Yes of course there is mending but its not needed it was just there just to say hello i am a wammo). wammo build was made just to have some fun... turned out it worked strangly enough! Oh and if i still have it (hopefully) I have an antiwammo build that looks like it never would work but of course only works against wammos (i tried many times otherwise).

I have played most characters and learned the differences in each character class (expect mesmer i just cant stand doing mesmer for my net to slow so i cant interrupt with a darn! Yes its high speed but via Satellite

.) As you may be aware my build is centered around only dervish skills and nothing from another. Oh before i forget about your comment about a warrior using those similar skills.... it just wouldnt work out as well as it does for the derv for via dervish mystism attribute would allow the dervish to replish energy way faster and use the skills more effectively while the warrior would die when all enchantments ends for he wouldnt have enough energy for 1.) to cast them all in one go. 2.) to recast them a few secs later.

Dervish advantage is the enchantments and sure i sacrifice some damage that i could do to them for tons of healing. Least i know i will live while they still getting killed and i regenerate just as fast as a monk can for i get +12 hp regen plus 12 hp per enchantment ending. Problem is dealing with heavy elemental damage so tactics change there. While Melee doesnt concern me or is not really a threat to my group as they would have to go through me first or else they die really fast as i pentrate their armour.

Everyone concentrates on some things different then anything. Oh and I leave this challenge to people. If your up to it you can add me then message me if you want to test your derv against mine. I have done 1v1 derv fights on many occasions and havnt lost that battle. I have tho lost in 1v1 warrior vs derv fight before they changed lions comfort and all the rest of the warriors skills so its been a while on that one... If i am on i will be more then willing to fight since i do enjoy PVP.

In pve dervs i am saddly lacking but so far the build has worked for me. it may not work for others since most cant understand the complexities that my build requires such as timing (which i have a knack for) and situation. I wouldnt run into a group unwarned i need to know what i am up againest (who doesnt really?) so i can cast the enchantments in order and timing.

Hmm thats another challenge!! I want to see who here is able to get my PVE build to work with a balanced group! May be costly in the old wallet tho since i am not telling you the proper runes your armour needs no the scyth attributes that is required to make it work. The right combination of both is required.

I know that for certain i have been having trouble duplicating my dervs results in a PVP only character, Dont ask me why for i dont have a clue since my PVE derv seems to kill everything in AB and PVP and LQ and what ever that other place is called... where wierdly enough my PVP only derv failed to sustain it the same in PVP and on many occasions so i gave up PVP only dervs. Oh and if anyone can tell me why, it would be appreciated for i have limited it down to the time when i was on when the servers crashed and left wierd effects on characters who were on that day...... but if anyone got any ideas other then that one please do tell me since it is erking me.

reaper with no name · May 25, 2009, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fall Of Sudden

All valid points i do agree but lol everyone misses one point i did bring up on here awhile ago when i first mentioned my build. Its mostly PVP and not really recommended for PVE and currently working on a PVE build that is better (once i get time too been busy with my paragon and my warrior) I do have a full frontal character and have played a warrior.

My Warrior has basically all frontal and little to no healing(of course do to that fact that it is a warrior and only semi good one is Lion's Comfort) On the remark about SY!, I find the duration to short and easily countered (I know that one for sure! I do it all the time ignoring armour). It may help in PVE a bit but not every build needs it for i find it a waste of time to use all the time and kinda pointless in regards to any of my builds. I use instead on my warrior "You are the Strongest" since the benefits are pretty good and is really my only energy consuming skill. I would let a paragon deal with the shouting since they benefit from them and able to make them stronger. Dervs on the other hand dont need to deal with such a waste of space in PVE when in all regards there is a Paragon hero for that one and dervs have to consentrate more on fighting and enchantments Hence why they have that special attribute and all that wonderful energy

How many monsters are you going to see that can counter SY!? Not that many. Yes, Paras can do it better, but how can you say that +100 armor (even for 4 sec) for 7 people for no energy is not worth a skill slot? Heck, it's worth it even if it only affects one person! Let your para spam it, and you can spam it to cover him, giving the whole party that +100 armor. It's not like you have anything better to put in that slot.

Quote:

and sins i find die way to freaken fast and dont deal enough damage in enough time for my liking in PVE. PVP i must admit they have their great advantages but in PVE they are highly lacking in damage but not conditions i must give them that (but so do rangers and they do it a lot better then a sin can).

You've never heard of the scythe sin, have you? It deals more damage in less time than the derv could ever hope to. They are the reason that you need SY! if you want a decent non-avatar derv build. It's practically the only thing non-avatar dervs can do that scythe sins can't.

Oh, and by the way, sins don't die as fast as dervs do. They have just as much armor (more, when you consider skills like Critical Agility), and a host of blocking skills that dervs don't (the only block skill dervs have is mirage cloak, which I'm pretty sure is inferior to what sins get). And then there's SF. But even without SF, his blocking skills are going to keep him alive a lot longer than your subpar healing capabilities.

Quote:

But i use that build for PVE currently (how little i do it with my derv) since it is efficent and the party i do bring along with me all the time is always well balanced since i dont want to get caught off guard. Chilling Victory, Reapers Sweep, Victorious Sweep are pretty good skills for high damage output. And Vital Boon doesnt waste HP at all but just gives you more then heals you in the end which is helpful in some situations. It has only a 5 energy cost so its no big deal considering once it ends it gives me 4-6 energy back. Lots of healing and point is to attract all the attention on to yourself so you take all the hard hits letting your squishy people nuke them.

If you're focusing on healing yourself at the cost of doing damage, then the party is clearly not well-balanced.

You're not understanding the tanking dynamic. Here's how it goes. Tank runs up to enemies. Enemies attack tank. Tank takes damage. Healers heal tank. Tank hurts enemies. Repeat until enemies are dead.

Your JOB is to kill things. Why heal yourself when the monks can do it better? You may be able to partially cover their job, but they can't cover yours. So, the monsters end up surviving longer, and end up doing more damage, defeating the purpose of your self-heals.

Quote:

Tactics is highly suggested and to be 100% honest the builds work for me and only for me. I have given some of my warrior builds to people just to see if they could figure them out but they failed to understand its basics. I also have a necro but of course any dunce can learn how to use a simple WK/IP anti melee build. My warrior builds people have tried and failed where i have successed. But of course i havnt come up with a farming build that suits me (sure there is those specialized farming builds but I am going for the big challenge of finding a semiUniversal farming build)

Funniest times are killing someone off with an PVP wammo build then they cant figure out how i did it without dying for my build looks wierd (Yes of course there is mending but its not needed it was just there just to say hello i am a wammo). wammo build was made just to have some fun... turned out it worked strangly enough! Oh and if i still have it (hopefully) I have an antiwammo build that looks like it never would work but of course only works against wammos (i tried many times otherwise).

I have played most characters and learned the differences in each character class (expect mesmer i just cant stand doing mesmer for my net to slow so i cant interrupt with a darn! Yes its high speed but via Satellite

.) As you may be aware my build is centered around only dervish skills and nothing from another. Oh before i forget about your comment about a warrior using those similar skills.... it just wouldnt work out as well as it does for the derv for via dervish mystism attribute would allow the dervish to replish energy way faster and use the skills more effectively while the warrior would die when all enchantments ends for he wouldnt have enough energy for 1.) to cast them all in one go. 2.) to recast them a few secs later.

Dervish advantage is the enchantments and sure i sacrifice some damage that i could do to them for tons of healing. Least i know i will live while they still getting killed and i regenerate just as fast as a monk can for i get +12 hp regen plus 12 hp per enchantment ending. Problem is dealing with heavy elemental damage so tactics change there. While Melee doesnt concern me or is not really a threat to my group as they would have to go through me first or else they die really fast as i pentrate their armour.

Everyone concentrates on some things different then anything. Oh and I leave this challenge to people. If your up to it you can add me then message me if you want to test your derv against mine. I have done 1v1 derv fights on many occasions and havnt lost that battle. I have tho lost in 1v1 warrior vs derv fight before they changed lions comfort and all the rest of the warriors skills so its been a while on that one... If i am on i will be more then willing to fight since i do enjoy PVP.

In pve dervs i am saddly lacking but so far the build has worked for me. it may not work for others since most cant understand the complexities that my build requires such as timing (which i have a knack for) and situation. I wouldnt run into a group unwarned i need to know what i am up againest (who doesnt really?) so i can cast the enchantments in order and timing.

Hmm thats another challenge!! I want to see who here is able to get my PVE build to work with a balanced group! May be costly in the old wallet tho since i am not telling you the proper runes your armour needs no the scyth attributes that is required to make it work. The right combination of both is required.

I know that for certain i have been having trouble duplicating my dervs results in a PVP only character, Dont ask me why for i dont have a clue since my PVE derv seems to kill everything in AB and PVP and LQ and what ever that other place is called... where wierdly enough my PVP only derv failed to sustain it the same in PVP and on many occasions so i gave up PVP only dervs. Oh and if anyone can tell me why, it would be appreciated for i have limited it down to the time when i was on when the servers crashed and left wierd effects on characters who were on that day...... but if anyone got any ideas other then that one please do tell me since it is erking me.

This is the campfire, and I know almost nothing about PvP, so I'm not going to say anything there. But I can say that in PvE, self-heals are not the way to go. Being a good tank does NOT mean healing yourself. If it did, monks would make great tanks. Being a great tank means to be able to reduce the amount of damage you take via armor or blocking or whatnot and to be able to do a lot of damage in melee. At best, self-heals are redundant, because the monks will already be healing you if you're doing your job right, making the self-heals unnecessary (so the monsters will live longer for no reason). At worst, the monsters f*** up you and your party because you didn't kill them when you were supposed to.

Do what your profession is GOOD at, not what you suck at. Dervishes are not good at healing (they are slightly better at it than warriors, but still nowhere near good enough to justify doing so). They are good at spamming DW with a scythe while spamming SY!, as well as general melee in condition or hex-heavy areas. They are also good for gimmick builds (such as fighting Shiro with Wild Blow and Vow of Strength, or resisting knockdowns in Glint's cave with Fleeting Stability, or doing a nuke/melee combo build with RoJ in the JQ).

Focus on that sort of stuff. Be all that you can be...In the Sunspear Army! Because a Sunspear never fights alone!

Fall Of Sudden · May 25, 2009, 06:27 AM // 06:27

A few problems your 100% stuck on SY! and like i said it is a highly not needed skill on a derv for there could be lots of other skills placed in there. And there is monk tanks and they kill things fast and not die I know at least 10 of them so self-healing is good! apparently you havnt been around enough to know that there is tank monks and they are impossible to kill really. I have played with many of them in PVE so they work. And self-healing lowers your monk dependancy by a huge amount! Learn to run other builds then SY! would yea for its not a major skill nor is it neccary. FOr 4secs with it on i have tried and felt like it was lacking. Also Dervs are great self healers and i have met people who use dervs as healers rather then monks since they do a pretty great job of it. You underestimate a true potential of a derv and self-healing. And by sounds of things you never really used one before.