Curse

Franksalot · Feb 11, 2010, 01:01 PM // 13:01

I tend to spend most of my time playing with my guild most of which generally don't play melee so other than minions am normally alone on the front line so i usually run this, or something similar to.
OgCkkyq06yWDBubzeXvkbBszFAD
Most of the time i will change out veil of thorns for AoHM as thats mainly for areas with alot of ranged foes. And WS can be changed for RS if wanted.

Also Reap impurities, while i like it can be change for possibly chilling victory for an AOE spike or any needed PVE skills
i generally run on this build all wind walker armors with;
scythe mastery +1+3 (with a +1 +1 extra helm spare incase of too much DP)
Earth prayers +1
Mysticism + 1
Vitae
Sup Vigor - or best avaliable.
A zealous Scythe of Enchanting with a +5e inscription

with 4 enchants up either ally or own wind walkers give you 90 armor then another 24 from conviction for 114 which allows you to compete armor wise with most frontliners. Weakness and condition spam from armor of sanc, wounding stike + thorns if have gives you damage reduction which along with the regen from mystic regen should be enough to keep you up.
Attackers insight used with lyssa's assult is an excellent energy management i never have energy problems even without high mysticism.

While this build allows me to effectively run front line in HM in elite areas i do still rely on good monk and the damage output is not the best.

i very rarely run that exactly but [OgCkkyq06yWDBGAweXvkbBMAAAA] thats the basic template it run my tanking builds around.
OgKlYlpsKtisDRbwZsexDSuJglbAgB - an example from my guilds deep petway :P 12 players 12 pets was a fun run.

some other builds i've been playing around with
OgGjQxrM7QiemXcX9FpiPXTN7gA - nice aoe spike build
OgWiMwpMtWqEsLK6sEIXOCREAA - this could be run on any class but i find it amusing
OgOk4gpsqyK08wMp22oH52FIz1bJ - A hard hitting build that i got 1000 dmg in 5 seconds on the Master of dmg with.

Idealy thought you'd have Strength of honor, splinter weapon and possible order of pain/order of the vampire on an ally to provide extra dmg. unless if you've got more than 1 melee in the group. if you have too much melee you could even run them urself.

OgSjQsqKrOeXDxk4+ifDvg3yLA

just for fun - OgSlUkHZ6tisI1W+JQfldNeJdddtGA - every condition on 1 bar

So to conclude there are alot of viable options and dervish are just as capable of putting out the same or more dmg as other classes but there is a big trade of survivability for dps but with good healers this shouldn't be to much of an issue.

**so many typo's so little time**

theslyr · Feb 13, 2010, 11:11 PM // 23:11

thxs ill try these when i geta chance

Cuilan · Feb 14, 2010, 01:09 AM // 01:09

No offense, but where's all the high damage output?

X Mr Lol X · Feb 15, 2010, 03:02 AM // 03:02

OgGjkyrJbSnbQXMXiXsXygEYxgA That is what I always use. Scythe Mastery = 12+1+1, Mysticism = 9+1, Earth Magic = 9+1. I think I might switch out conviction with PI for some high lv HM missions (Gate of Maddness, Raisu Palace, etc). I find that it works very well with a Discordway set (but then again, what doesn't =P). That is just what I use, and I have henched my way through NF with it. with the exception of missions where I don't have the req'd hero, a friend wants to come along, or something liek that. I like that build, and I just thought I would post it

. the build Also works pretty well with Avatar of Balthzar, but it is not needed if you have a good healing party, and the enemies are not undead.

PS: I'm always a believer that the derv should be able to supply it's own heals, and I use my derv as more of a tank than a spiker. If I command my hero to use Protective Spirit, and Shield of Absorbtion, I am pretty much invincible.

Slasher of Darkness · Feb 15, 2010, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Best damage I've gotten from a derv was running THIS: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Qu ery

OR zealous vow, altho I didn't get as good dps with ZV as I did with this..

P.S. my eotn ranks are max, so asuran scan does 75% more damage..yummy.

reaper with no name · Feb 18, 2010, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Well, no wonder. You've got FI and AI on there when you should be taking another attack skill, and zealous sweep's recharge is much too long (zealous vow's strength comes from the fact that it can fuel spammable attack skills). Also, if you're going to be having 11 mysticism, you might as well just take HoF and grab "By Ural's Hammer!" or "I Am The Strongest!" for your third PvE skill.

Oh, and also, I need to amend my previous statement; there is one more situation in which a dervish can beat a scythe warrior in damage: if he brings frenzy. But that will actually be a significant disadvantage, because then even wand attacks will be taking away 10% or more of your health (whereas normally it'd be more like 5%).

One more high damage build: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...t10415051.html

Be aware; it's very specialized (requiring a party that does not utilize conditions and the assumption that one can consistently hit at least two targets per swing).

Franksalot · Feb 18, 2010, 12:07 PM // 12:07

I used to love vow of silence, it was perfect to mix with some defensive enchantments for a hard hitting tank, but sadly the condition condition has rendered this skill next to useless for anything other than possibly solo farming. Conditions are just too useful and too common to use this.

maxxfury · Feb 28, 2010, 04:35 AM // 04:35

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build

/W_Critical_Scythe

There we go! much closer to a/d & w/d scythe. Seems to be bigger outputs than anything a derv had before?

Malician · Mar 02, 2010, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build

/W_Critical_Scythe

There we go! much closer to a/d & w/d scythe. Seems to be bigger outputs than anything a derv had before?

I would vote for http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build

/W_Attack_Spammer this with protector's strike instead of chilling victory and frenzy in the remaining slot. Warning: requires a half-decent monk.

Iuris · Mar 02, 2010, 11:13 AM // 11:13

I've long been unhappy with my dervish, but have recently found two builds that approximately work out for me. One uses Zealous vow, the second uses Onslaught. Both are quite similar.

Onslaught one is nice in terms of fast moving, reasonable recast potential, and generally doing nice damage. The fast moving is really appreciated in the game, too.

Eremite, Mystic, attack skill of choice (usually Radiant scythe since it gives good armor ignoring damage, alternatives are sought), Whirlwind attack, Asuran scan, Aura of holy might, Onslaught, Attacker's insight. Requires a rune to get wind prayers up to 13 so attacker's insight covers 3 attacks (that's 3 free attacks + mysticism gain for when it ends).

The build can lose wind after a while, but most battles work out fine.

Second is a Zelous vow build. This one has quite some endurance - if you don't get shut down via

Eremite, Mystic, Farmer's scythe, Whirlwind attack, Asuran scan, Aura of holy might, Zealous vow, Heart of fury. Requires a rune to get wind prayers up to 13 so attacker's insight covers 3 attacks (that's 3 free attacks + mysticism gain for when it ends). A better IAS is always sought for.

Build has quite some endurance, but the Onslaught one has quite replaced it for me. You risk so much due to the loss of energy regeneration from Zealous vow. Nothing comes close to being as frustrating as facing a Blocker or Blinder and winding up with raw scythe swings because you have no energy or way to replenish it.

One thing to note, though: all dervishes suffer against high armor foes. In HM, weapon damage itself becomes quite irrelevant due to high armor (non critical hits with the scythe are far from satisfying).

Kopa The Demon King · Mar 02, 2010, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Id help but the overwhelming amount of PvX builds here scares me, If you want my help PM me in game id be glad to give pointers

>__> i dont want my derv getting to PvX i like people wondering what the hell im doing.

Malician · Mar 03, 2010, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kopa The Demon King

Id help but the overwhelming amount of PvX builds here scares me, If you want my help PM me in game id be glad to give pointers

>__> i dont want my derv getting to PvX i like people wondering what the hell im doing.

If it's bad / VERY suboptimal, no-one probably cares very much.

If it's good, other people had the same thought and it's on / been on PVX if it's good enough.

Chthon · Mar 03, 2010, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malician

I would vote for http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build

/W_Attack_Spammer this with protector's strike instead of chilling victory and frenzy in the remaining slot. Warning: requires a half-decent monk.

Yes, on Frenzy and Protector's Strike.

But one more important thing: Change AoHM to EBSoH. The unlisted damage type conversion to holy breaks your otherwise great synergy with Orders (which you should want more than ever with Blood Bond and Mark of Fury buffed) and Barbs/MoP. (AoHM is only acceptable for H+H or BYOB PUGs that don't run good intrateam synergies.)

Also, just for those who don't get it, the point of the build is to output attacks much more rapidly than normal scythe speed, even under max IAS. You get the bulk of you damage from SoH, Orders, GDW, EBSoH, Barbs, and MoP supplied by your teammates (except EBSoH which you can supply yourself). The multiplication effect of scythe's inherent mini-AoE, the rapid attack speed, and the large amount of armor-ignoring damage stacked on you results in a very respectable damage output. And you get SY! to boot.

Sadly, this is about the only worthwhile build dervs have right now.

Fallen Conspirator · Mar 04, 2010, 01:36 AM // 01:36

making the dervish hit harder is a task i have been working on for a very long time. I finally came up with this build... granted this is PvE only... it works.
It's a way to make the dervish consistently hit for over 225... it dominates in NM...

(the hardest i have recorded this to hit in a single swing was 749)

OgOjkyqzKTCYkbmXvlfbygzkzDA

I named it the 400 strike derv because when i was doing a mission in factions NM i was striking for base damage of at least 400.

Arrogant Bastard · Mar 04, 2010, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen Conspirator

making the dervish hit harder is a task i have been working on for a very long time. I finally came up with this build... granted this is PvE only... it works.
It's a way to make the dervish consistently hit for over 225... it dominates in NM...

(the hardest i have recorded this to hit in a single swing was 749)

OgOjkyqzKTCYkbmXvlfbygzkzDA

I named it the 400 strike derv because when i was doing a mission in factions NM i was striking for base damage of at least 400.

This build is not good. Using Chthon's recommendations will get you a lot more damage (that is also maintainable).

Malician · Mar 04, 2010, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Yes, on Frenzy and Protector's Strike.

But one more important thing: Change AoHM to EBSoH. The unlisted damage type conversion to holy breaks your otherwise great synergy with Orders (which you should want more than ever with Blood Bond and Mark of Fury buffed) and Barbs/MoP. (AoHM is only acceptable for H+H or BYOB PUGs that don't run good intrateam synergies.)

Also, just for those who don't get it, the point of the build is to output attacks much more rapidly than normal scythe speed, even under max IAS. You get the bulk of you damage from SoH, Orders, GDW, EBSoH, Barbs, and MoP supplied by your teammates (except EBSoH which you can supply yourself). The multiplication effect of scythe's inherent mini-AoE, the rapid attack speed, and the large amount of armor-ignoring damage stacked on you results in a very respectable damage output. And you get SY! to boot.

Sadly, this is about the only worthwhile build dervs have right now.

AoHM DOES have an insane damage boost with GDW and SoH, even if it breaks synergy. Most teams don't have MoP, and I don't think Orders alone would compensate for AoHM's damage.

Chthon · Mar 04, 2010, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malician

AoHM DOES have an insane damage boost with GDW and SoH, even if it breaks synergy. Most teams don't have MoP, and I don't think Orders alone would compensate for AoHM's damage.

0. AoHM does not boost the damage from GDW and SoH. It is a straight plus to damage rating. The skill description is inaccurate.

1. EBSoH also affects all the other melee on the team, plus minions.

2. It doesn't make sense to bring an Orders along if you're going to be negating Orders with your build. That means giving up Blood Bond (which is now really remarkable party healing) and Mark of Fury (which helps a great deal with SY!). While these aren't damage, they certainly make a meaningful difference.

3. Most teams should have a MoP...

4. The damage difference isn't near as big as you think.

Example:

Assume foe is a level 28 paragon; your weapon is customized, 15^50, vamp scythe; max alliance ranks; 14 mastery; Scan, SoH @ 10; GDW; OoV @ 16.

CritChance = (0.01*14) + ((1 - (0.01*14)) * 0.5 * 2^(((8*20) + (4*14) + (6 * 12) - (15* 28) - 100) / 40))= 0.147717817

Non-Crit Average w/ AHoM = 1.75 * ((((9+41)/2) * 1.15 * 1.2 * 2^(((64+50)-104)/40)) + 20 + 18) + 5 = 143.29838 round= 143.

Crit w/ AHoM = 1.75 * ((((41+41)/2) * 1.15 * 1.2 * 2^(((64+50+20)-104)/40)) + 20 + 18) + 5 = 238.022717 round= 238.

Weighed average by crit chance w/ AoHM & Scan: (238 * 0.147717817) + (143 * (1- 0.147717817)) = 157.033193

Non-Crit Average w/ EBSoH & OoV = 1.75 * ((((9+41)/2) * 1.15 * 1.2 * 2^(((64+0)-104)/40)) + 20 + 18 + 15) + 17 + 5 = 144.9375 round= 145

Crit w/ EBSoH & OoV = 1.75 * ((((41+41)/2) * 1.15 * 1.2 * 2^(((64+0+20)-104)/40)) + 20 + 18 + 15) + 17 + 5 = 184.764178 round= 185

Weighed average by crit chance w/ EBSoH & OoV = (185 * 0.147717817) + (145 * (1 - 0.147717817)) = 150.908713

Difference is only ~6 damage/hit, which is more than made up for if there's one other ally in your EBSoH.

Also, Scan is a very big part of the damage difference. (AoHM multiples w/ Scan; OoV does not.) If the paragon were an off foe instead of the Scanned foe, then EBSoH+Orders actually pulls ahead ~95 damage/hit to ~92.

Against softer foes, AoHM performs better. For instance, if the Scanned foe were instead a lvl28 caster, then AoHM wins ~193 damage/hit to ~165. That's still a small enough difference that 2 allies in the EBSoH overcome it.

One final thing to note: Since AoHM is multiplicative, while EBSoH is additive, it loses a lot more from not having a max Kurz/Lux title rank (which is harder to get than Vanguard too). For that matter, it also loses more if you don't have max Asuran rank.

TLDR version on the math: AoHM usually does more damage than EBSoH+OoV, but not enough more to outweigh the damage done by two other allies in the EBSoH. Without Scan, AoHM may sometimes do less damage than EBSoH+OoV to start out with.

[edit: typo fix]

reaper with no name · Mar 11, 2010, 08:45 AM // 08:45

If the party is using Orders or MoP, you shouldn't be using a dervish at all to begin with, regardless of whether or not he has AoHM. You should be using a warrior, because they synergize far better with those things.

The only situation in which a dervish has any business being in a party in the first place is if that party isn't using Orders or MoP (either because there aren't enough physicals or what have you).

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build

/W_Critical_Scythe

There we go! much closer to a/d & w/d scythe. Seems to be bigger outputs than anything a derv had before?

Actually, I came up with that build too after the update. And while it can pull that build off better than a warrior, it doesn't come close to the damage output of a zealous vow dervish. All it has on it is blocking.

Franksalot · May 01, 2010, 11:08 PM // 23:08

So i was playing around with monk enchantments and came up with this
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now idealy you'd get a monk to use the monk spells on you and then change them out for an IAS such as heart of fury and another attack, chilling victory or radiant scythe. I tried both we me running the monk spells and a hero by myself my best hit on the master of dmg was 432 with the hero it was 551 with an average of 228. 100 Armor foe i could get around 330 dmg in one hit. energy is a bit close but not too much of an issue if go with with AI and hit with lyssa's sweep first then aim to have your buffs all up for reapers sweep.

so yeah just an idea

Nubarus · May 15, 2010, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by theslyr

ive tried running the general derv but i die so easily

That's because the PvX builds are pretty badly made, it pretty much only works if you use that no brainer sab/discord bull heroes.

And that General PvE D Build that you refer to is really bad, one of the reasons is it's only build for attack, while a D, just like a sin has really good offensive and defensive enchantments that apparently nobody who visit PvX knows about.

Just to name a few really nice ones are Conviction and Armor of Sanctity.
Another enchant I really enjoy using is Sand Shards, mainly because you can pre-cast it before charging a mob and then cast it again so you have 2 of em whirling around you, outside the fact it looks really cool it also helps keeping you alive.

In mho using Armor of Sancity with Wounding Strike should be so obvious it pokes you in the eyes.

I have about 450 hours logged on the D class, not that many compared to some other classes I play but I can pretty much handle anything they throw at me in HM without any serious probs.
My D is a "just for fun" class to me but I managed to complete several campaigns in HM with it, mostly done with H/H due to the fact I have limited time to play so I am not in a huge guild where I can request assistance 24/7.