Curse

Xenomortis · Mar 11, 2010, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

I agree with all of that except the part about IAS. You still want that even on a ZV build, because not only does it affect your attack skills, but even with them you are still going to be autoattacking a lot, so you still need an IAS. Oddly enough, if HoF didn't suck so much and could be maintained (I mean seriously, unmaintainable AND located in a useless attribute line? Give me a break; when was the last time anyone even paid ATTENTION to Flail's downside in PvE?), the dervish would be able to outscythe the warrior.

With 3 fast activating attack skills on my bar, I have to auto-attack once, whilst the first skill recharges. That's 1 attack in 4. An IAS is nice, but I don't overly miss it like I do with other physical bars.

With ZV you can basically ditch any Mysticism spec and simply run Whirling Charge - it has reasonable uptime although an annoying upfront 10e cost. Alternatively do what Warriors do and run Frenzy (Flail is for cowards). If you want to use Conviction then you have to accept that you're going to be losing out somewhere for a defensive skill.

reaper with no name · Mar 17, 2010, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Whirling Charge? You must be joking. That doesn't last nearly long enough to be of use.

The best case scenario damage-wise for a zealous vow dervish that doesn't use an IAS or Fear Me (which requires a speccing of it's own, which I have not bothered doing the math for) is to take Victorious Sweep, and according to my math the damage is close, but not quite there. HoF is just barely better.

However, this does give me reason to check out some other possibilities. I'll look into what happens when you throw Fear Me in there instead of an IAS, but considering what happened when I did that with enduring scythe (the loss of the attack skill and the couple points of strength was greater than the damage boost, and with an IAS attack skills contribute less to the overall damage, since their recharge times don't change), I don't have high hopes.

EDIT: Nope, that lowers damage too. At 12 tactics, it's very slightly worse than Victorious Sweep.

Bloody Dominator · Mar 18, 2010, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Actually with ZV i like to run Whirling Charge to, i do use it in combination with the Deldrimor skill "Dwarven Stability" so i can keep it up 24/7.

reaper with no name · Mar 22, 2010, 04:45 PM // 16:45

That's two skill slots (one of them PvE) for an IAS that is slightly worse than HoF. Not sure why you'd want to do that, but ok.

Franksalot · Apr 15, 2010, 04:54 PM // 16:54

you can easily keep heart of fury up 24/7 with eternal aura, yeah it's still 2 slots but 100 armor ignoring damage to all nearby foes is quite nice

Dervish Kid · May 17, 2010, 08:57 PM // 20:57

After reading the 1st page of this thread.. I think A-Net needs to see this and hurry up with a dervish update.

NerfHerder · May 19, 2010, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Regarding the OP, no I dont think they should be 123 spam bots. Thats what an Assassin is for, and even Warrior to a lesser degree. With the current skill balance Dervishes are not capable of fulfilling the niche they were created for in the first place. It is possible to juggle enchantments and cause quite a few conditions in the process. But it's just not that effective when the mechanics of the game are geared toward DPS.

Why would you need an IAS with the Zealous Vow builds? All 3 attack skills have activation times, so the 3 skills your spamming wont be effected. And whenever your not spamming your attack skills your recasting other skills. With out an IAS you already get in one hit before your attack skills recharge. So with an IAS you might get 2 hits. Not that effective given the high energy cost and short time its effective. Only bonus with Whirling Charge to me would be the IMS to move to foes faster. Im putting my money on Conviction for that slot. With only 6 points in earth its maintainable cost 5nrg, you get +24ar and 50% block.

104ar +50% block > 80ar 1 extra hit ever 5sec and/or recieving double damage

Neky · May 20, 2010, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Dervish bar without Conviction in HM is kinda pointless if you ask me.

Xenomortis · May 20, 2010, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neky

Dervish bar without Conviction in HM is kinda pointless if you ask me.

That's ok, I simply won't ask you.

NerfHerder · May 20, 2010, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neky

Dervish bar without Conviction in HM is pointless

Fixed it

BWAHAAHAHAHA!12char

Franksalot · Jun 06, 2010, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neky

Dervish bar without Conviction in HM is kinda pointless if you ask me.

Well tbh if you've spec'd into earth then yeah you probably should take conviction provided you have no other armor skills.

End of the day its down to your personal play style

Cuilan · Jun 19, 2010, 08:05 PM // 20:05

I'd kill for a non-ZV build. There was a PvE bomber build, but it's clumsy and has a lot of heavy downtime. Damage wasn't even that hot either. Physical buff dervish were gaining momentum, but then people just went N/Mo, Rt/Mo, or E/N heroes.

Chthon · Jun 20, 2010, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I'd kill for a non-ZV build. There was a PvE bomber build, but it's clumsy and has a lot of heavy downtime. Damage wasn't even that hot either. Physical buff dervish were gaining momentum, but then people just went N/Mo, Rt/Mo, or E/N heroes.

Try Dark Aura, Contagion, Foul Feast, Wearying Strike, Plague Touch, etc. Not fantastic, but not ZV.

Mintha Syl · Jun 21, 2010, 11:02 AM // 11:02

No, dervishes should instead stop being generic attack spammers and find theyr niche in something useful warrior and sin don't do, IMO.
I'm using a Lyssa's avatar build, and for now it works greatly, but I still didn't do HM and general difficul things with it, and I really feel it's gonna be a bad one there. Just spamming attacks with some energy and health management + some burning...I would really want something more "intelligence-side" . I even gave up on conditions as cripple and deep wound for the stupid energy cost.
Still, I may have missed something since it's not much I'm playing this class, but this is my feeling.

NerfHerder · Jun 21, 2010, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I'd kill for a non-ZV build. There was a PvE bomber build, but it's clumsy and has a lot of heavy downtime. Damage wasn't even that hot either. Physical buff dervish were gaining momentum, but then people just went N/Mo, Rt/Mo, or E/N heroes.

I feel the same way, it would be nice if we could juggle enchantments and still do about as much damage as a ZV build.

Red_Dragon56 · Jun 23, 2010, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Ursans blessing, in PvE, makes any class a skill-spam class. And it's fairly powerful. So...

Bandwagon · Jun 23, 2010, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red_Dragon56

Ursans blessing, in PvE, makes any class a skill-spam class. And it's fairly powerful. So...

Thats nice, might want to stay on topic though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

.....I'd kill for a non-ZV build........

Same here mate, the build is even more mind draining than a 1-2-3 sin (never mind the fact your shatter bait when there is chant removal). Hopefully A net changes / updates enough D-skills so there might be actual synergy between the skills and Mysticism.

Red_Dragon56 · Jun 24, 2010, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon

Thats nice, might want to stay on topic though.

It is on topic. PvE is pretty much you can do ANYTHING with ANY build. There is nothing. Ursan's blessing makes this even more prevalent. It's not an issue. The only time you have to worry about builds is PvP.

Dusk_ · Jun 26, 2010, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red_Dragon56

It is on topic. PvE is pretty much you can do ANYTHING with ANY build. There is nothing. Ursan's blessing makes this even more prevalent. It's not an issue. The only time you have to worry about builds is PvP.

Just out of curiosity, have you actually seen the game in the last 2 years?

Franksalot · Jul 12, 2010, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red_Dragon56

It is on topic. PvE is pretty much you can do ANYTHING with ANY build. There is nothing. Ursan's blessing makes this even more prevalent. It's not an issue. The only time you have to worry about builds is PvP.

pretty sure he wanted a no-zv dervish build, ursan is not a dervish build :P