Curse

saint666 · Jan 21, 2011, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

Scythes are not broken because without PvE skills, scythe dps is in line with other weapons. If you set up the most powerful dervish hero build you can imagine it will have a hard time outshining Hundred Blades, Dragon Slash, Death Blossom spam, etc. So the problem isn't the scythe or the dervish profession, it's the PvE skills. As other have pointed out already, AoHM works on any profession, so when you add in the advantages of other professions' primary attributes they end up being better than the dervish.

As proof of this point, consider how many people run around with teams of 3 hero dervishes to provide awesome damage. Oh yeah... without the PvE skills they are not that awesome.

Who runs around with melee heros period. Try running around with hero assassins, they make great corpse for mms lol. PVE skills amplifies the power of the weapon, but 75% of 17 dmg is not = 75% of 41, sorry 107% for scythes. Given the energy, any profession can use swords/daggers/bows/hammers etc and have the same pve buffs to but are still comparable. Pve skills make decent weapons better, but great weapons absurd. crits/ap, +%dmg have an exponential effect on weapon damage, that means scythes actually gets more out of it than any other weapon. Most other weapons base their damage on skill dmg which have way less variation than weapon damage. Dragon slash, Death Blossom, Hundred blades, without these skills daggers and swords suck, even with pve skills. You don't even need attacks with scythes. Dervishes are better off with Scythes with lower max damage, and better attack skills and enchantments to go with them. Wouldn't it be better if you have attacks/enchantments that add +40dmg and while keeping scythes the same? No, it wouldn't.

dasmitchies · Jan 21, 2011, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Dervish update will never come. Scythes are not broken. They are simply the best melee weapon in the game for PVE due to the mechanics of enemy AI. Nerfing Scythes doesn't make dervishes more playable. Enchantment juggling was a failure because it is too Energy and time intensive. I like Dervish armors and the attack animations are good but the class was poorly thought out at inception due to Anets fear of players having uber-power as with Sins and Rits. PVE balancing of any class is ridiculous because my PVE doesn't affect yours. And here we are arguing over vaporware again.....

saint666 · Jan 21, 2011, 09:54 PM // 21:54

yes, scythes are the best melee weapons in the game, they leave other melee weapons in the dust. But isn't it due of it's high damage and aoe, what does monster AI have to do with it. Lowering scythes max damage and raising it's min damage doesn't effect dervishes at all, they will still get the same average damage. All it does is bring the potential damage of different classes closer. It would also make scythes more reliant on skill damage rather than just weapon damage, which I think is a good direction.

Catchphrase · Jan 22, 2011, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint666

Not saying scythes shouldn't hit multiple enemies, that's it's flavour, but not without investment. The chance should scale with Scythe Mastery, just like Dagger.

Ineffective, other professions who would wish to abuse scythe would most likely have Scythe Mastery at 12 anyways; this is not similar to the case of how A/Ws abuse Backbreaker.

Irregardless of whether the max damage is lowered or its inherent AOE capability removed, scythes are still basically 'axes on steroids' especially when you achieve critical hits with it. Likewise, it suffers the worst from weakness condition as compared to other weapons.

I just hope in addition to putting adrenaline as requirement to some of scythe attack skills, perhaps they could also add health sacrifice as the alternative cost whilst eliminating energy cost to skills instead. This compliments with the stupendous amount of healing from dervish skills and also acts as limitation against mindless spamming of attack skills.

saint666 · Jan 22, 2011, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catchphrase

Ineffective, other professions who would wish to abuse scythe would most likely have Scythe Mastery at 12 anyways; this is not similar to the case of how A/Ws abuse Backbreaker.

Irregardless of whether the max damage is lowered or its inherent AOE capability removed, scythes are still basically 'axes on steroids' especially when you achieve critical hits with it. Likewise, it suffers the worst from weakness condition as compared to other weapons.

100%/16=6.25% per rank

At rank 12 you get 75%, so dervishes would have 25% over other classes, at least I think it's not too shabby. I was thinking 19 min-31 max, which is comparable to Hammers, I can't say I've seen too many people using hammers.

Rites · Jan 26, 2011, 06:30 AM // 06:30

lmao

how about GW being redone so that you can't use any weapons EXCEPT for weapons from your primaries? geez

one of the best things about GW in my opinion was its openness as far as character weapons, which of course causes skill abuse by peeps that know how to think.

seriously the only way to stop weapon skill abuse and make it so that an assassin primary can't outdo a warrior or a derv with their own weapons is to lock weapon choices per primary class. of course if ANet decided to do this, there would be even more QQ.

NapTooN · Jan 26, 2011, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

lmao

how about GW being redone so that you can't use any weapons EXCEPT for weapons from your primaries? geez

one of the best things about GW in my opinion was its openness as far as character weapons, which of course causes skill abuse by peeps that know how to think.

seriously the only way to stop weapon skill abuse and make it so that an assassin primary can't outdo a warrior or a derv with their own weapons is to lock weapon choices per primary class. of course if ANet decided to do this, there would be even more QQ.

Great Idea, would turn Illusionary Weaponry into the worst Elite Skill in the game, because the profession it belongs to can't use melee weapons.

Rites · Jan 26, 2011, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by NapTooN

Great Idea, would turn Illusionary Weaponry into the worst Elite Skill in the game, because the profession it belongs to can't use melee weapons.

i take it you don't know how to comprehend very well?

read my WHOLE post again and TRY to understand what I put up there

Xenomortis · Jan 26, 2011, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint666

100%/16=6.25% per rank

At rank 12 you get 75%, so dervishes would have 25% over other classes, at least I think it's not too shabby. I was thinking 19 min-31 max, which is comparable to Hammers, I can't say I've seen too many people using hammers.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Damag...#Weapon_Damage

Rank already plays a factor in weapon damage. The increase however drops off with ranks above 12.

reaper with no name · Jan 26, 2011, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

lmao

how about GW being redone so that you can't use any weapons EXCEPT for weapons from your primaries? geez

one of the best things about GW in my opinion was its openness as far as character weapons, which of course causes skill abuse by peeps that know how to think.

seriously the only way to stop weapon skill abuse and make it so that an assassin primary can't outdo a warrior or a derv with their own weapons is to lock weapon choices per primary class. of course if ANet decided to do this, there would be even more QQ.

Actually, this would go a long way towards balancing the game, and the only people that would care would be the people abusing things. It will never happen, but it would be a quick and dirty solution.

Andrew Almond · Jan 29, 2011, 03:41 PM // 15:41

anet should introduce more derv skills, perhaps avatar of dhuum or maybe an elite scythe attack that can shadowstep

.bsides arent the gods suppose to be enchanting these fellas? give them more enchant options in mysticism so other classes dont abuse them, maybe a summon saltspray in the mysticism class to make up for any slack

Bandwagon · Jan 30, 2011, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Almond

anet should introduce more derv skills, perhaps avatar of dhuum or maybe an elite scythe attack that can shadowstep

.bsides arent the gods suppose to be enchanting these fellas? give them more enchant options in mysticism so other classes dont abuse them, maybe a summon saltspray in the mysticism class to make up for any slack

They might rewrite skill functionality, but they certainly won't add new skills in the dervish update.

Random Namos · Jan 30, 2011, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon

They might rewrite skill functionality, but they certainly won't add new skills in the dervish update.

Yes they do!

Quote:

After these two consecutive updates to GvG, we are planning to take a short break from targeted updates and focus our balance efforts on the new Dervish skills.

update December 2010

Kaleban · Feb 05, 2011, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Ok, here's how to "fix" the Dervish:

1. Mysticism - Retain the ending health/energy gain for all enchantments from any profession, add a Expertise-like percentage cost reduction to all Dervish skills.

2. Aura of Holy Might - retain the holy damage on cast and end, change the damage type to physical, give it the 4+1/2 mechanic just like CA or TNTF and linked to Mysticism, with a self-renewal when hitting more than one foe.

3. "Flash" enchants - convert most if not all Dervish enchants to zero-cast/zero-aftercast, retain the condition causing of most, up the damage, and add a tertiary effect that enchants your weapon while active with, say a 2...7...11 damage bonus that aggregates with other enchants (so with three active damage enchants, you're getting 6...21...33 additional damage per scythe swing). This tertiary weapon effect fails to apply with less than 4 Mysticism. The weapon augment is also theme based, so that the additional damage from an Earth enchant is Earth or Fire, and a Wind Enchant does Lightning or Cold. Also, either make several enchants end on number of attacks made, or add a few multifunction skills that simultaneously strip all enchants ala Mystic Sandstorm, with varying effects.

4. Avatars - Get rid of the ridiculous disable, change the active portions of the skills to better coincide with the god's milieu, and adding some sort of "aura" that affects either the entire party, allies in a specified area of effect, or even enemy affecting auras. Grenth for example could cause enemies attack speeds to decrease based on Mysticism investment, which would follow the "cold" theme (similar to the Paladin's Holy Freeze from D2). Lyssa could grant 1 to 2 pips energy regen to the party, while Dwayna could grant 1 to 4 pips health regen. Melandru could grant a "thorns" effect such that any enemy striking a party member would take reflective damage. Balthazar could grant adrenaline gain bonuses, and immunity to shout canceling skills like Vocal Minority.

I don't really expect any of these changes to occur, but if they were, it would change the Dervish from a third rate melee character no one wants, to a Hybrid caster/melee like he was originally envisioned that brings good damage and excellent utility. You can see that with most of the enchants that it was conceived that a Dervish would be de-buffing foes constantly, with the old D/A Derv Bomber closely approximating that, although poorly.

With the above changes, the Dervish could still do respectable melee damage without relying on skill spamming Mystic Sweep, Eremite's Attack and Protector's Strike with Zealous Vow, and instead focus on making each and every swing hit really hard, while utilizing all the varied enchantments to their fullest effect.

The Baphomet · Feb 05, 2011, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Nerf WS pvp again. Keep it as is in pve. Now all dervs can roll through pve.

Really, does anything need to be buffed in pve?

Cuilan · Feb 05, 2011, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Baphomet

Nerf WS pvp again. Keep it as is in pve. Now all dervs can roll through pve.

Really, does anything need to be buffed in pve?

Reaper's Sweep is superior to Wounding Strike with extra damage, but neither are useful in PvE for dervish because how awful the rest of the bar is (energy, damage, casting, etc).

ensoriki · Feb 05, 2011, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Enchantments need less recharge.
Mysticism should have an expertise effect for enchantments.
Mysticism doesn't do it's job very well, it's based on the enchantments ending but getting those enchantments up in the first place is tiresome with the limited energy pool.

Mednes · Feb 05, 2011, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagon
They might rewrite skill functionality, but they certainly won't add new skills in the dervish update.

Yes they do!
_________________________________________________
But if they give the dervs new skills hey would have more than paragons, and that would be unfair.

Franksalot · Feb 07, 2011, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mednes

Quote:
But if they give the dervs new skills hey would have more than paragons, and that would be unfair.

paragons are gonna have a rework to, so if they did add new skills could be adding to paragon as well later on.

Quote:

"These will NOT include major changes to the Dervish (and in particular scythes), non-“Imbagon” Paragons, and the smiting line for the Monk. All of those are things we’ve been considering for major updates of their own."

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...#Mesmer_in_PvE

not saying i think is gonna happen, just that it could without being unfair to paragons... least in the long run. But tbf if more skills is what it takes to improve the dervish the way they want, i don't see why they wouldn't derv's and para's already have an "unfairly" small skill pool.

Archangel.Arcanis · Feb 07, 2011, 07:26 PM // 19:26

No more classes are getting an overhaul like Derv or Mes. John said that on his talk page a few days ago. They have multiple releases this month that he has talked about and those will likely be the Derv. preview & update as well as another possible update or preview for something like Embark beach.