Curse

Franksalot · Dec 09, 2010, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Does AI+LA provide 3 energy per second, every second? No? Well, that's what you need in order to pump out the kind of damage that zealous vow builds can. And no other scythe build for the dervish comes close to the damage output of spamming attack skills.

my point was not that AI + LA is better than an Elite skill just that there are other options if you want to run another Elite IE Vow of strength (Not that you would atm outside of gimmick or farm builds due to stupid no-condition requirement).

Xavier Nordain · Dec 10, 2010, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

After these two consecutive updates to GvG, we are planning to take a short break from targeted updates and focus our balance efforts on the new Dervish skills.

December 9th - Developer Update

Random Namos · Dec 10, 2010, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xavier Nordain

December 9th - Developer Update

Does this mean were getting closer to the update ?

And yay! new skills

reaper with no name · Dec 10, 2010, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Namos

Well, I tried to make a build with AI + LA, pumps out the same damage as the Zealous Vow Dervish, if not more..

I came up with this:

Scythe Mastery = 11+1+1
Wind Prayers = 5
Tactics = 12

Code = OgGjkuqVFTvlCYMXNXjekbiauF

Skills :
1. Asuran Scan
2. Lyssa's Assault
3. Mystic Sweep
4. Eremite's Attack
5. Aura of Holy Might (Luxon)
6. Attacker's Insight
7. Soldier's Stance
8. "Fear Me!"

With 5 in Wind Prayers Lyssa's Assault is a free attack, and with 13 Scythe Mastery it will generate +11energy
Use it with a Zealous scythe, and lets say you hit 3 foes, you'll gain 14 energy every 15 seconds.
While AI is recharging, Lyssa's Assault is still a free skill because of the 11 energy regain.

Soldier's Stance + ''Fear Me!'' will provide 75% block, +25% critical hit and 33% faster attacking.

EDIT:

I took this as a challenge.

After a lot of number crunching, the results were surprising.

The dps for his build is theoretically identical to a zealous vow build that replaces SY with Drunken Master. Of course, the zealous vow build would still have a free skill slot (no need for Heart of Fury), so they could take Fear Me just like the SS build and be better, but it was still amazing how close they were.

Unfortunately, it's worth noting that I slapped "theoretically" in there.

See, there are two problems with this build:

1) Maintaining Fear Me is not as easy as it may seem. You can't rely on always hitting two foes, after all, and there's no room on the bar for FGJ. Moreover, at the very least it's not going to be up at the very beginning of the fight, so in practice you would lose some dps there.

2) Since it doesn't use SY, this build is not directly competing with zealous vow; it's competing with critscythe. And critscythe stomps it's face into the ground and laughs at it.

Oh, by the way, MoD tests are meaningless. Not only is there the RNG to contend with, but the MoD doesn't have anywhere near the armor necessary for an accurate test. That's why I always go to the trouble of calculating stuff. It removes all the excess variables like randomness and player skill.

P.S. The build doesn't need a zealous scythe; use a vampiric scythe, otherwise zealous vow with Drunken Master instead of SY (with a free skill slot) is definitely better.

Random Namos · Dec 11, 2010, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

I took this as a challenge.

After a lot of number crunching, the results were surprising.

The dps for his build is theoretically identical to a zealous vow build that replaces SY with Drunken Master. Of course, the zealous vow build would still have a free skill slot (no need for Heart of Fury), so they could take Fear Me just like the SS build and be better, but it was still amazing how close they were.

Unfortunately, it's worth noting that I slapped "theoretically" in there.

See, there are two problems with this build:

1) Maintaining Fear Me is not as easy as it may seem. You can't rely on always hitting two foes, after all, and there's no room on the bar for FGJ. Moreover, at the very least it's not going to be up at the very beginning of the fight, so in practice you would lose some dps there.

2) Since it doesn't use SY, this build is not directly competing with zealous vow; it's competing with critscythe. And critscythe stomps it's face into the ground and laughs at it.

Oh, by the way, MoD tests are meaningless. Not only is there the RNG to contend with, but the MoD doesn't have anywhere near the armor necessary for an accurate test. That's why I always go to the trouble of calculating stuff. It removes all the excess variables like randomness and player skill.

P.S. The build doesn't need a zealous scythe; use a vampiric scythe, otherwise zealous vow with Drunken Master instead of SY (with a free skill slot) is definitely better.

All of that is true,
But actually the 2 warrior skills (Soldiers Stance & "Fear Me!") can be replaced with whatever primary/secondary skills and still got an open Elite.

I just tried to make a build so we can throw Zealous Vow out of every Dervish build.
When playing with more players just take an Imbagon for the "SY!"

And erm, are we still talkin about the Dervish update?

Cuz I think this topic is going to be a build discuss.

reaper with no name · Dec 12, 2010, 05:29 AM // 05:29

But those two skills are the only reason it can come close to competing with zealous vow in the first place. Remove those and it quickly starts falling short.

And like I said, if I had used that free slot zealous vow had for Fear Me, it would have easily beaten SS.

Franksalot · Dec 12, 2010, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Well anet said their working on new mechanics for the dervish, any one have any further info on that? or ideas as to what they may be?

Random Namos · Dec 18, 2010, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Today in GuildWars Wikia:

Due to server errors, players have reported deaths to lead to deletion of characters. Arenanet is working on the problem, but will not be able to fix it before Monday. Until a final solution is released, we recommend staying off those characters you treasure or enjoy playing, and instead make a Dervish.

(http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page)

Monday Dervish update?

EDIT:
probably some kind of joke. Anet said nothing about those deleted charrs.

Warvic · Dec 18, 2010, 01:32 PM // 13:32

it's on the unofficial wiki dude.

and you shud know it's a joke by just reading the text lol.

**Marty Silverblade** · Dec 18, 2010, 09:34 PM // 21:34

It's not even the unofficial wiki. That would be this: http://www.guildwiki.org/Main_Page

That wiki is the old unofficial one that has no use now other than vandalising.

Current announcement:

Quote:

Cats

All your base are now belong to us.

Kunder · Dec 19, 2010, 07:33 PM // 19:33

I do hope we don't see ridiculous Dervish buffs. Its Warriors/Sins that need nerfs badly.

Asurmen32 · Dec 29, 2010, 06:53 AM // 06:53

hell id be happy if they just change Mysticism to

"Gain 1 energy on enchantment CAST ON YOU for ranks 3 and 6... Gain 1 energy on enchant END for every 3 ranks there after. + 1% scythe DAMAGE for every rank in mysticism" PS the health gains in current form would NOT change just too lazy to type it in =P

Something like this would be nice. balanced cause cant abuse the e gain on enchant CAST, and its + scythe damage not Crit.

Sounds balanced on PAPER dont know how it'd work in game =)

Random Namos · Dec 29, 2010, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asurmen32

hell id be happy if they just change Mysticism to

"Gain 1 energy on enchantment CAST ON YOU for ranks 3 and 6... Gain 1 energy on enchant END for every 3 ranks there after. + 1% scythe DAMAGE for every rank in mysticism" PS the health gains in current form would NOT change just too lazy to type it in =P

Something like this would be nice. balanced cause cant abuse the e gain on enchant CAST, and its + scythe damage not Crit.

Sounds balanced on PAPER dont know how it'd work in game =)

well, then you'll only got good Energy management when your party has a lot of enchants.
I would like to see an Emanagement without enchant-heavy partys.
Even when ur going solo.

I heard something about new 'Flash Enchantments' maybe they are building some Emanagement around those ?

reaper with no name · Dec 29, 2010, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asurmen32

hell id be happy if they just change Mysticism to

"Gain 1 energy on enchantment CAST ON YOU for ranks 3 and 6... Gain 1 energy on enchant END for every 3 ranks there after. + 1% scythe DAMAGE for every rank in mysticism" PS the health gains in current form would NOT change just too lazy to type it in =P

Something like this would be nice. balanced cause cant abuse the e gain on enchant CAST, and its + scythe damage not Crit.

Sounds balanced on PAPER dont know how it'd work in game =)

It would still be underpowered.

Scythe Warriors are 10%-15% more damaging than dervishes. And any worthwhile scythe build is going to be using 3 energy per second just on attack skills alone. So, even with this idea you'd still need zealous vow.

Andrew Almond · Jan 13, 2011, 11:36 AM // 11:36

maybe they could fix the dervish a little by switching mystic regeneration to the mysticism table? this would allow a derv to use its mysticism abilities, have pts in scythe mastery, use a secondary proff, and of course the use of mystic rengeneration, which, imo, a self regen skill is important because lets face it,, monks suck at healing the front lines. either that or change the name of the skill to earth regeneration,, because as it is now it has absolutely nothing to do with mysticism.

p.s.

they should undo the nerfs to sand shards and vow of strength,, they were awesome the way they were

aspi · Jan 13, 2011, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Make Aura of holy might be used with barbs and mark of pain?

fr.aodhan · Jan 13, 2011, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Almond

monks suck at healing the front lines

It would seem, then, that we should fix the healers, no? GW2, apparently, has no dedicated healing classes, but I'm not sure it's a feasible option to toss them in GW1.

Andrew Almond · Jan 13, 2011, 12:21 PM // 12:21

no... monks have plenty of healing capabilities, and whoever said anything about tossing them?? anyway they are not the subject of discussion. the thread here is about the dervish class.

reaper with no name · Jan 13, 2011, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Almond

maybe they could fix the dervish a little by switching mystic regeneration to the mysticism table? this would allow a derv to use its mysticism abilities, have pts in scythe mastery, use a secondary proff, and of course the use of mystic rengeneration, which, imo, a self regen skill is important because lets face it,, monks suck at healing the front lines. either that or change the name of the skill to earth regeneration,, because as it is now it has absolutely nothing to do with mysticism.

p.s.

they should undo the nerfs to sand shards and vow of strength,, they were awesome the way they were

That would have absolutely no effect. The dervish is already more than survivable enough. The problem is that other classes use all of their (good) skills better than they do. And self-healing skills like mystic regen are far from good (ultimately, it's a paradox for PvE, because all it does is take stress off the backline, but by wasting a skill slot and attribute points on it, monsters live longer and deal more damage, putting more stress on the backline anyway).

Both the old and the new versions of Vow of Strength are inferior to modern zealous vow builds (yes, even if the enemy never has a condition; attack skill spam is that powerful). And even if it wasn't, it would be better utilized by assassins anyway.

The only version of sand shards that was particularly powerful was the original way back in '07. And once again, if it were brought back it would simply be abused by dervish secondaries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aspi

Make Aura of holy might be used with barbs and mark of pain?

If the skill were first linked to mysticism, this would be a good change. But if it wasn't, then assassins and warriors would once again get more use out of it.

Haggis of Doom · Jan 13, 2011, 06:23 PM // 18:23

The Dervish needs an update for two reasons:

1. Their primary function, frontline enchantment juggler, sucks.

2. Warriors and Assassins use the scythe better.

Since the Dervish's primary function is that of a frontline caster, reason #2 wouldn't be a problem if their primary function was good (yes, people would still bitch about it, but they will always bitch about something so :P). See it this way: an Assassin can get better DPS than any caster while wanding due to Critical Strike, yet no one cares because wanding is not the casters' primary function and it sucks anyways.

The proper way to go about this whole Dervish problem is to, thus:

1. Make enchantment juggling worthwhile.

2. Nerf scythes so that it's still good but not better than other melee weapons, if we care about scythe-wars and scythe-sins - I don't. (We don't want it to suck as bad as wanding, since we still have an entire attribute line of skills for it)

Looking at this thread, it's plain that the player base don't want things to be done the proper way.

Who do we have to blame for powercreep and bad game mechanics?