Curse

Zyph · Feb 15, 2011, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Hi, so I'm decently new to Guild Wars, just got it like 2 weeks ago, but already I have a Ranger and a Dervish at level 20.

I'm here because I'm wondering about my Dervish build, as I seem to die a lot and mobs seem to take forever to kill (I'm aware it might have something to do with my heroes).

This is my current PvE build:
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Scythe Mastery 12 + 1 + 1
Mysticism 12 + 1
Tactics 3

Armor: 1 survivor 1 minor vigor (still working on that)
Weapon: trying to unlock zealous prefix and enchanting suffix, have a "Strength and Honnor" inscription waiting.

I haven't completed Proph or NF yet, and I don't have Factions. I plan on getting Factions after I finish the Prophecies storyline on my Ranger and the NF storyline on my Dervish, I can't keep up with 3 at once. So AoHM is out of my build. What can I do with it from here to make it as optimal as possible?

My ultimate goal is to be able to effectively farm Asuran Rank, not to mention actually completing some of these EotN missions (I can hardly get through the zones). Maybe do some other farming for money, though I'll probably make a Ritualist for that once I get Factions.

I seriously know nothing about heroes. I'm using Ogden, Vekk, and Livia, and they're pretty much using default weapons and skills with Ogden slightly modified. This is probably where I'm going wrong, but hero stuff is really confusing, especially since I'm having a hard time getting my own stuff together.

And that just about covers it, I think. Any help and tips would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Bandwagon · Feb 15, 2011, 03:44 PM // 15:44

With a big dervish update incoming I cannot really offer anything skill wise you should pursue because things are going to change drastically for upwards of 90% of the dervish skills.

In general, until you get a few elite skills unlocked from different professions, and visit hero skill trainers I would avoid using heroes since their skill bars are so incredibly limited compared to henchies, who have a full 8 skill bar and an elite to boot.

Even with the dervish update pending (it will prolly hit this thursday according to a few sources), there are a few things you should worry about:

-Crippling in PvE is largely useless, bring damage since your a frontliner (and ergo the prime damage dealer), If you really really want a reliable snare, grab the PvE skill "You Move Like a Dwarf" it is a knockdown, a snare, its ranged, it deals armor ignoring damage, it has a 10 second recharge.

-Thrill of victory offers very little for you on your bar, I would suggest changing it for a scythe attack, such as mystic sweep or eremite attack. Both these attacks activate quickly, netting a quicker attack, furthermore these skills can be used more often then thrill, so in effect you still generate adrenaline more quickly, but you also deal more damage.

-As of right now, if you are not using Zealous Vow, the next best alternative to some form of reliable energy management is Lyssa's Assault + Attacker's Insight, trading up Zealous Renewal and Zealous Sweep for these two skills would be choice.

If you do plan to opt for Attacker's Insight, try to reach 4 wind prayers (3 in wind prayers +1 from a rune works). This will make your next two attacks virtually energy free (one of them will be Lyssa's Assault so that you gain extra energy from the attack). Mysticism will give you a small kicker in terms of energy renewal but it cannot be counted on. Keep in mind that after the dervish update, this will probably be outdated.

-I would recommend attempting to unlock all the dervish skills (and as many elite skills as possible) so that you have more options available to you once the update hits.

-If you need some good hero builds to strive for, I recommend checking out PvX wiki and taking a look at the hero builds for inspiration.

jcegt87 · Feb 15, 2011, 04:12 PM // 16:12

correct the dervish update will make anything we say about the derv obsolete

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thats the build i use ... good for select solo farmings

wounding strike i only use to PvP

Zyph · Feb 15, 2011, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Gah, that was meant to be Victorious Sweep, not Crippling Sweep.

And I hear a lot about this mystical dervish update, I hope it is indeed soon.

Thanks for the Lyssa's Assault/Attacker's Insight recommendations.

My only concern for Mystic Sweep or Eremite's is that without the extra damage bonus from AoHM quick skill spamming seems kinda lacking, but I'll give it a shot (I DID just unlock Asuran Scan so I've yet to try those out with that).

I guess I'll just not worry about it too much if it's as you say and this magical update is soon, I'll probably just focus on NF missions and getting more skills.

And I will look at those hero builds. Though you said heroes aren't really that amazing til you unlock more things for them? So, as a dervish, which henchmen do you think would be good for NF? I was thinking of going with Motivation, Healer, Fighter, Archer, Blood, Domination, and either Earth or Fire (probably Earth for survival). Seeing as how that's most of them... Is a Monk henchman any use (as opposed to a Healer)?

Edit: Also my only other Elite is Reaper's Sweep, if that's better as an elite than WS

wilebill · Feb 15, 2011, 04:23 PM // 16:23

You are doing astoundingly well for only two weeks! I am in awe! Congrats!

1. Dervish ... might as well park until the patch because 90% of the skills change then. Right now, my Dervish is a light Archer D/R with 6 in Marksmanship. Look up collector bows on wiki. I am using a collector bow from Prophecies, Flatbow with damage of 13-25, 15>50, vampiric, health +30. Of course I had to add the good stuff to the basic collector Flatbow.

I mention the bow only because I am likely to continue being a light Archer even after the patch! Because you combine bow damage with bonus damage from Avatar of Grenth or Lyssa and increased attack speed from Heart of Fury and you deal out a respectable amount of The Old Henry! Safely from range, while the hench warrior goes in to get the snot beat out of him! When the most dangerous foes are down, switch to scythe and go in and mop up quick. Or just use scythe if the group has nothing dangerous to a Dervish.

In general, you play the Dervish in scythe mode a bit like an Assassin. Do not take aggro first; you are not a warrior. Stop on the way in to boost on an enchantment at least. Let the hench warrior take the initial aggro. Then select your target and go in. Be ready to go quickly back out too!

I had a lot of fun with D/A builds and shadow stepping; even with those you can use a vampiric pulling bow to fair effect at the beginning of combat if you have Grenth or Lyssa up.

2. Heroes ... lot of opinions. Look up Sabway on this forum or PVXwiki. I use a modified version of that. Like the rest of us, dream of the day when they finally release the Embark Beach patch that will let us have 7 heroes in the party!

Again, welcome to Guild Wars!

Voodoo Rage · Feb 15, 2011, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Eye of the North can be a bit advanced for a new player but considering you have been far enough to unlock Livia, you are doing quite well. I think your biggest problem is your lack of skills for your heroes. You probably should go back to Nightfall and start progressing far enough to get your hero skill bars a little more developed (via talking to hero skill trainers). Once you have unlocked the Command Post you change your secondary for a minimal fee so that will give you the ability to temporarily be a /N, /Mo, etc... to go out and capture elite skills for your heroes. Another way to do it is to do the Zaishen missions in the Great Temple of Balthazar and trade the coins in for Flames of Balthazar. You can talk to the Balthazar rewards guy and he can unlock elite skills on your account in exchange for Balthazar Faction (if you aren't anywhere close to a necessary area to unlock a particular skill you are seeking). The wiki is always your friend as is the build wiki (http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page). {<-- Is that the current one?}

As far as the Dervish goes, as was already posted, you probably just want to set him aside for now so you can enjoy the game content once they drastically change the profession hopefully within a week or so.

Also, if you think you are going to play this game for a while, I'd highly recommend getting Factions too since you are really missing out on a lot of key skills without that campaign unlocked.

akelarumi · Feb 15, 2011, 04:39 PM // 16:39

lot have been said already but I agree, The dervish update will change the entire class, so it might be wise to wait with your derv till then or only take one general purpose build to make progress while waiting for it.

You move like a dwarf is like any snare not wise for a melee to bring in my opinion. After the knockdown the foe is going after a different target, while as an melee, you want the enemy's to attack you.

as a melee there are general three kind of builds for PvE (farming excluded).

1: damage: Bring a lot of damage skills to kill the enemy's before they kill you.
2: tank: Bring a lot of self protection skills so it is hard for enemy's to kill you. your backline in your party should do the actual killing, while the enemy's are attacking you.
3: mix damage and tank: make sure you can survive the attacks of your enemy's, but also bring skills to damage them.

When playing in a team with real players it might be wise to go tanking. Specially cause unlike hero's and henchmen real players don't need flagging to stop the from getting all agro (although some players are worse then hero's/henchmen).

When playing with hero's/henchmen it would be wise to go mix damage and tank. This so your not depending on them to survive or to do the damage.

LifeInfusion · Feb 15, 2011, 04:54 PM // 16:54

stock hero builds are terrible, and your Dervish build needs more quick (eremite's or Mystic) attack skills to do decent damage compared to W/D or A/D or even R/D.
It's best for you to use Eremite's attack rather than Crippling sweep.

Regardless of whatever the Dervish update does, use 15% while enchanted on a Dervish. If you don't have any, PM me, I have 5 of them.

I noticed your build doesn't have conviction, so you are running really squishy (70+15 if you have windwalker's=85 armor only). I'd run Zealous Vow over Wounding Strike but using your skills:

12+1+1 Scythe
10 Tactics
6+1 Earth
Rest in Mysticism

1 Asuran Scan
2 "I am Unstoppable!"
3 Brawling Headbutt
4 Eremite's Attack - from Tohn (Kamadan, Jewel of Istan)
5 Mystic Sweep - from Medando (Yohlon Haven)
6 Zealous Renewal - feeds Armor and 15% while enchanted weapons
7 Soldier's Stance (elite) - 75% block + IAS
8 "Watch Yourself!" /Conviction- bought at Dau (The Mouth of Torment)/ Zendeht (Gate of Torment) , or you can cap it from Justiciar Kimii in war in Kryta

If you can cap Onslaught from Myish, Lady of the Lake (Drakkar Lake) :
12+1+1 scythe
10+1 wind (use +20% enchanting)
6+1 earth
rest in mysticism

1 Asuran Scan
2 "I am Unstoppable!"
3 Brawling Headbutt
4 Eremite's Attack - from Tohn (Kamadan, Jewel of Istan)
5 Mystic Sweep - from Medando (Yohlon Haven)
6 Zealous Renewal - feeds Armor and 15% while enchanted weapons
7 Onslaught [elite]
8 Conviction

or you can run a Zealous Vow (ZV) build if you cap Hajok Earthguardian (Djinn) (Dasha Vestibule). http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:D/W_Zealous_Dervish

Wounding strike needs energy management since with 4 pips the best you can get is a 5 energy attack every 3.75 seconds. Zealous Sweep isn't any good because you need to hit 2 foes to break even.

I'm assuming you don't use AoHM (Aura of Holy Might) and Save Yourselves! because you don't have Factions or something? That's the main reason to go D/W (to abuse scythe with adrenaline). There's something similar in http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:D/W_WS_Hero

The key thing here is that "I am unstoppable" is the only armor skill that stacks. If you use 2 armor skills, only count the highest one unless both are less than +25, which means they add up to a maximum of +25.

For collectors: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Tohsedi , http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Seung, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jovia...om/wiki/Kapunk, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Rapk, and a bunch of others.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_...of_th e_North

gremlin · Feb 15, 2011, 04:58 PM // 16:58

I find it hard to work with heroes when I am a melee class its a lot easier to remain out of the battle and give orders than try to do it while your getting hit.

For heroes I have a preference for the same 3 most of the time.
1 necro running a minion master build
2 Monk with halfway decent healing build
3 Mesmer using Panic.

Adding Henchmen as available but usually
1 Warrior type unless I am running one in which case second Elementalist
2 Earth Elementalist
3 Interrupt Ranger
4 Paragon or maybe second Monk

With max armour and the armour bonus from an avatar skill my dervish survives quite well.
Actual build depends on where I am at the time.

Zyph · Feb 15, 2011, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Okay so notes taken so far:
Finish NF/Proph, get Factions (probably going to be playing a while)
Collector weapons
Unlock as many skills for self
Peruse PvX wiki for hero build goals
Switch support classes and unlock elites for heroes
More quick attacks
Look into tanking

My guild leader as a warrior uses a hero minion master and a hero spirit spammer, he says it's like taking an army with him. It looked fun.

I have a question about skills. When you unlock skills, via capture or Balthazaar points or quests or buying or however, all the heroes on that account have access to them right? Am I going to have to unlock hero skills on each of my characters? What about your other characters themselves? Can you spend faction to gain skills that have been unlocked accountwide on a character? Or is that for PvP only characters?

Voodoo Rage · Feb 15, 2011, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Yeah, once you unlock a skill (including elite skills), ALL your heroes on ANY character can use that skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

I find it hard to work with heroes when I am a melee class its a lot easier to remain out of the battle and give orders than try to do it while your getting hit.

IMO, you really should always be the centerpiece of your team, regardless of your profession; it just makes the game more fun to play. I always like to develop my hero builds to make my particular character's damage as dominant as possible. I also like to make the hero bars as autonomous as possible so I really don't need to micro them. A melee character's damage can be absolutely insane with the right heroes, so having your melee character on the sideline seems almost sacrilegious to me.

gremlin · Feb 15, 2011, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyph

Okay so notes taken so far:
Finish NF/Proph, get Factions (probably going to be playing a while)
Collector weapons
Unlock as many skills for self
Peruse PvX wiki for hero build goals
Switch support classes and unlock elites for heroes
More quick attacks
Look into tanking

My guild leader as a warrior uses a hero minion master and a hero spirit spammer, he says it's like taking an army with him. It looked fun.

I have a question about skills. When you unlock skills, via capture or Balthazaar points or quests or buying or however, all the heroes on that account have access to them right? Am I going to have to unlock hero skills on each of my characters? What about your other characters themselves? Can you spend faction to gain skills that have been unlocked accountwide on a character? Or is that for PvP only characters?

You guild leader is correct a bunch of minions and 5 spirits all attacking is a heck of a boost for much of pve.

You can vary the straight MM build with a minion bomber exploding his minions or add a spiteful spirit necro which will boost party damage a fair bit.
The panic skill I mentioned for mesmer means many of the enemies skills are interrupted.

You can run a very good party without Minions or Spirits but they certainly take up the slack till you perfect your own party builds.

Skills unlocked on a character are unlocked for the account so are available to be bought for other characters or heroes from any skill seller.

So far as I know skills bought with rank such as asura skills depend on the rank each character has with that faction.

Rites · Feb 15, 2011, 09:42 PM // 21:42

just a lil addition....

outfit your heroes with runes/insignias just like you would do your own
as you progress in game, do not neglect equipping your heroes
synergy is very important in any party, since you are a melee toon, then your hero skills should revolve around YOUR skills
-- Necro should have curses like barbs to augment physical damage
-- Monk might have strength of honor (you will have to disable it and cast on yourself) to augment your damage

gremlin · Feb 16, 2011, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

Yeah, once you unlock a skill (including elite skills), ALL your heroes on ANY character can use that skill.

IMO, you really should always be the centerpiece of your team, regardless of your profession; it just makes the game more fun to play. I always like to develop my hero builds to make my particular character's damage as dominant as possible. I also like to make the hero bars as autonomous as possible so I really don't need to micro them. A melee character's damage can be absolutely insane with the right heroes, so having your melee character on the sideline seems almost sacrilegious to me.

I was unclear what I was getting at was I find it easier to manage my party as a mid or backline player rather than say as a warrior assassin dervish etc.

Some players can cast fight move give orders and type to human party members all at the same time I am not one of them.

I find it far easier as a caster to pause for a few seconds and give commands, as a warrior I am pretty much letting heroes get on with it because I can seldom pause till we have won the fight.

As a caster or ranger I am constantly thinking about party position where the minions are where the healers are and while not micromanaging the skills I am managing where they are in relation to the battle.

We all have different play styles

byteme! · Feb 17, 2011, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon

With a big dervish update incoming I cannot really offer anything skill wise you should pursue because things are going to change drastically for upwards of 90% of the dervish skills.

This man speaks the truth. Ask for help after the update. Any help you get right now will become obsolete soon enough. Save yourself the time.

Zyph · Feb 18, 2011, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Wow, the dervish update was today.

Time to relearn!

wilebill · Feb 18, 2011, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Yes, it is a whole new Dervish. Experimenting this evening with new builds.