Curse

Hades sargent · Apr 02, 2011, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Well here goes i just got the grenth avatar for my derv and i have both balth and grenth now and i was woundering wich one is better (in personal experences) and or more versital and what would be a good skill set to go with both of them? help would be greatly appreshiated

thanks for the help in advance

wilebill · Apr 02, 2011, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Balthazar wins for me given just those two.

Avatar of Melandru is what I also use in many areas. "You have +150 Health, +30 elemental armor, and your attacks deal earth damage. Whenever you lose a Dervish enchantment, all party members in earshot lose 1 condition." The health and elemental armor can keep you from being spiked down by elementalists; the condition removal includes you and makes life much easier for the party as well.

IronSheik · Apr 03, 2011, 04:36 AM // 04:36

PvE, pious renewal.

If you gotta use the crap avatars, balth, simply for adrenaline, 10 health steal isn't worth it.

Franksalot · Apr 03, 2011, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

PvE, pious renewal.

If you gotta use the crap avatars, balth, simply for adrenaline, 10 health steal isn't worth it.

Hmm yeah... i take it your still running the gimmicky scythe spam build but just changed Zealous Vow for Pious Renewal, which while it works it definately not the only PvE option and i find rather simple and boring.

As for Balth and Grenth, i've not used the new balth too much had little cause to but i have found grenth rather fun, combine it with Grenth's Aura and some AoE attacks like Whirlwind attack and you can put out alot of armor ignoring damage as well as keeping yourself alive, can also chuck in mystic vigor and a vamp scythe mood for extra heal gain per hit.

Haggis of Doom · Apr 03, 2011, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franksalot

Hmm yeah... i take it your still running the gimmicky scythe spam build but just changed Zealous Vow for Pious Renewal, which while it works it definately not the only PvE option and i find rather simple and boring.

PR builds are based on teardown. ZV builds are based on spamming attack skills. Apart from the fact that both builds use skills often there is not much in common.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franksalot

Grenth's Aura

Does not give you any increase in damage. It subtracts from the final damage and replace it with life-steal, which is a personal Vigorous Spirit kind of effect. As a frontliner it's not that good a skill choice.

It only adds damage when your final damage is lower than the amount it subtracts, in which case you're doing a poor job at dealing damage anyways.

Bandwagon · Apr 04, 2011, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hades sargent

Well here goes i just got the grenth avatar for my derv and i have both balth and grenth now and i was woundering wich one is better (in personal experences) and or more versital and what would be a good skill set to go with both of them? help would be greatly appreshiated

thanks for the help in advance

Honestly, I would ditch both, run Dwayna in pressure heavy areas or another Derv elite that doesn't convert your weapon damage to elemental. Dark Fury, Order of Pain, Mark of Pain and Barbs only trigger on physical damage, and they are worth the skill slots and attribute expenditure to run them (Order of Pain is not so hot unless you bring at least 2 frontline, but Dark Fury is well worth it even if you bring a single adrenaline reliant bar into your team build)

IronSheik · Apr 04, 2011, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franksalot

Hmm yeah... i take it your still running the gimmicky scythe spam build but just changed Zealous Vow for Pious Renewal, which while it works it definately not the only PvE option and i find rather simple and boring.

Here's the build you're talking about.

My Build.

They do both have attacks..so I guess you're right, they're the same.

The build you're describing is vague, but I would hope you're also running an enchant juggle/reap impurities to boost damage/conditions.

Why you would run whirlwind attack with a weapon that hits 3 targets I've no idea, especially when you have eremite's attack (Non-PvE-ish whirlwind if you didn't know, not saying to use it).

Grenth's Aura is mildly amusing for PvP to keep yourself alive, but as Haggis said, it converts damage->life steal, so unless you're doing less than 22~ damage per hit it isn't doing anything.

Grenth gives you 10 life steal and end-enchant disease, as well as dark damage.

Balth, +20 armor phys, +33% adren, end-enchant burning, holy damage

If you think 10 life steal and 3 seconds of disease to ADJACENT (mind you some enemies have no flesh) beats an extra 33% adrenaline and 5 seconds of burning to NEARBY foes, well, okay.

FoxBat · Apr 04, 2011, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Dark Fury doesn't care about damage type, and is very easy to splash at just 5 blood magic. The balth adren boost will then stack with it for 2.6 strikes per swing.

Grenth's Aura helps when your scythe swings for less than 17ish, which happens often enough when your min damage is 9. In PvE though strength of honor typically pushes that floor up so that it never happens.

I didn't realize Balth's burning was nearby for some reason... you could set up some fun gimmicks with they're on fire or searing flames in teams.

mortenya · Apr 04, 2011, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

My Build.

why do you run Pious Fury over Heart of Fury? is it just to have another teardown for PR/AoHM?

IronSheik · Apr 04, 2011, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortenya

why do you run Pious Fury over Heart of Fury? is it just to have another teardown for PR/AoHM?

Why would I?

Same speed, Energy is perfectly maintainable, Pious is upkeepable @ 12 seconds with 10r. Most important HoF takes adrenaline, taking away from more reaps/SY!

mortenya · Apr 04, 2011, 05:49 PM // 17:49

i was just curious, i see a lot of people thinking HoF is the only AS skills for dervs.

also, i was thinking HoF was 33%, but looking at it now i see i was mistaken.

reaper with no name · Apr 04, 2011, 06:35 PM // 18:35

It used to be (PF was too).

But there's really no reason to use HoF in a PR build. PF works just as well (actually better, since you can use it on command and it will trigger AoHM another time).

Bandwagon · Apr 04, 2011, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Dark Fury doesn't care about damage type

I stand corrected.

Hugh Manatee · Apr 05, 2011, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Out of those 2, I'd go grenth.

It depends on how much you need the adrenaline, whether the enemy is fleshy(and if they are, are they human) and if they're undead, I guess. If you're using balthazar to pump out more attack skills it might beat out grenths, but that +10ish life steal goes on every attack. I haven't done the exact math on this but I'm pretty sure that that will outdo the damage from burning+the extra attacks from adrenaline if you position right and use the right setup(burning is only like an extra 14-15 dps iirc, a IAS with a couple fast attacks, the extra lifesteal should outdo that, and can't be healed off). Then you get the disease on top of that. But if you're fighting undead that goes out the window, tear ass with balthazar's holy damage.

Now if you can get it, in PvE Dwayna is just awesome. Go D/W with SY! and you're like an imbaderv, every 6 seconds like 80 health flowing over your party. That comes with Anti Wipe(eternal aura), and a buttload of PBaoE(aura of holy might). Pick an attack and slap on pios fury and go whomp ass. If your attack is a teardown go earth, take stagger and dust cloak, if it's not, go wind with whirling charge and rending aura(each of these are the fastest recharging flash enchants, the next fastest are the 10 second ones in mysticism, if you don't want to spread the points to earth or wind).

This setup seems to be interchangeable with any avatar, you get a decently fast activation of the avatar's effects with some good nuking from AoHM, but it just owns with dwayna, you get badass healing, prot and damage on one bar. I went HMing nightfall missions with it, and I'm doing pretty awesome.

By that same token, I think people are really underestimating the potential of the lyssa avatar. Take the above example, but now all the FEs recharge in 3 seconds, you'll need to go wind for whirling charge's auto rip on hit and a tearing attack to get the stuff off you fast enough but damn... and in PvP.... Remember why they had to nerf the hell out of Fear Me!.....

Melandru is the weakest now, the extra health isn't necessary, and the armor, while nice, isn't either, not when you get the protections you can get in pve, and there's better ways to kill conditions in pve. Dwayna can probable outheal any damage they would cause, there's lots of ways to get rid of them partywide in the rit and pragon lines, and if you need to be immune to them, blindness, the only real threat to you, can be beaten with sight beyond sight.

Josiphos · Apr 07, 2011, 05:30 PM // 17:30

So I've been debating this myself.

My bar:

pious assault
Twin M Sw
Heart of fury
Mystic Sandstorm
aura of thorns
staggering Force
sand shards
Avatar of Balth/Grenth

I did not realize till just now that Grenth was only adjacent, while Balth is nearby. Disease is also only 3 sec vs burning 5 sec. Immunity to disease is kinda worthless, but adrenaline+33% basically makes TMS into a 5* attack and Mystic Sandstorm into a 3*

Extra phys armor is always nice...so in my mind its a no brainer.

As for Pious Spam, I have been running both lately. I spent about the last 2 weeks running pious in all areas and it worked pretty well. My complaints are its button happy and AoHM seems to run out at bad times. I tested both builds at Master of Damage and Balthazar seemed to win out vs total damage.

More importantly, AoB is MORE FUN. I switched back to it last night and ran some of the areas I had used Pious Spam in...holy steam roller. I had to look and see if I was still in HM. Much better in all respects if you ask me.

I like the fact that its versatile too. I can plug in another avatar if I know I am going to be needed to heal more or remove conditions. Condition spam was also another unmeasurable; Pious spam only had deep wound, but AoB has bleeding, burning, blind, cracked armor, cripple...

Just my thoughts